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Flybe-9

Old 24th Jun 2020, 07:21
  #4241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Aalborg
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
The time for reviving an airline is in the first few weeks after flying is suspended when the brand could maybe come back to life and the routes with most potential had not been claimed by other airlines. Even if Cyrus were ready to go tomorrow with Flybe v2, a delay of 3 months combined with a significant fall in air travel demand means the window of opportunity has almost certainly closed
Under normal circumstances I'd agree but these aren't normal times! the Fly(may)be brand wasn't the best and should be dropped quick sharp.
The 3 month lead time is a good thing so demand can be judged before any launch. I don't believe the eLPC or Zoom Tech refreshers are just out of the kindness of their heart but still very much appreciated..........
I believe that ALL not just the leased aircraft from the Flybe fleet are undergoing an ownership change. It will be a shell of a business with no aircraft or training academy and most tangible assets sold so the creditors can't get anymore from the process.

Perfect for Cryus to buy for next to now't - they know what they are doing in the airline business and would probably keep the current management. The company licences are still under review by the Transport Secretary and have been for a long time - the Gov are sitting on it for a reason. The DFO and HoCT are still getting employed by the administrators for a reason, why are they there?
Lots and lots of DASH now sitting with lessors looking for new operators. Any future operator will be able to get a great deal and have their pick of the bunch once the aircraft have been cleaned up/repainted by the lease companies so none of the shabby ex Flybe ones will be back unless sorted. Those LGW ones should fit the bill... all white and easy to fit the Virgin Connect decals to.

This Covid19 saga has decimated the industry and put loads of us out of work BUT it is also an opportunity so we just have to wait and see.
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Old 24th Jun 2020, 07:49
  #4242 (permalink)  
 
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I think my understanding is pretty up-to-date but I believe the problem you are citing is one around differences between insolvency laws which are not the CAA's bag.

As of today, Flybe's Operating Licence is suspended but remains live. The CAA has made proposals to rescind it, which are the subject of an appeal by the administrators. This will be considered by the Secretary of State for Transport. If Flybe was sold today by the administrators, the entity would have an Operating Licence which it could re-activate. It's the same position as LGW in Germany. You cannot hold an OL perpetually in suspension so that situation has to come to an end at some point, whether for Flybe under UK CAA jurisdiction or LGW under LBA jurisdiction.

Irish insolvency laws contain the provisions for examinership which have some important differences to administration. The management remains in control and responsible for the business during its restructuring in examinership, where in the UK, an administrator takes individual liability for the business. I have not yet seen an administrator willing to take on the personal risk of running an airline, which is why airlines tend to stop operating immediately before or upon entry to administration. A CVA is the nearest equivalent in the UK (although by no means the same as examinership in Ireland) and a UK airline was indeed able to continue to trading under a CVA for quite some time. That could happen again.

Chapter 11 is a completely different box of tricks as I think we all know.

The issues which I think you are raising are therefore not the CAA's to consider or review. If you want to see change, UK insolvency laws applicable to any business - whether it be an airline or a hair salon - are the key to this.
Albert Hall is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2020, 22:15
  #4243 (permalink)  
 
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I am not convinced about these latest statements concerning a form of flybe returning.

Mostly as the three members of the consortium are apparently in line to receive an amount of their investment back from EY.

This part of his statement I find interesting for all the wrong reasons:

Cyrus is doing everything it can, along with the other consortium members, to ensure that a business emerges that can re-hire the many thousands of employees who were dependent on it.”

Is Virgin and Stobart working with Cyrus to ensure a business emerges after it was allowed to fail? Has anyone heard this strategy from Virgin and Stobart since the 5th March?. Especially Virgin!!!

How many is many thousands of employees? flybe has circa 2400 (not many thousands as stated) and it would be near on impossible to have a working start up to have that many re-employed.

I understand that people are getting hopeful and positive about some emergence of a regional airline from the dire commercial failure of flybe.

But a large pinch of salt is required to accompany statements on its revival.



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Old 25th Jun 2020, 06:55
  #4244 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jamestkirk View Post
I am not convinced about these latest statements concerning a form of flybe returning.

Mostly as the three members of the consortium are apparently in line to receive an amount of their investment back from EY.

This part of his statement I find interesting for all the wrong reasons:

Cyrus is doing everything it can, along with the other consortium members, to ensure that a business emerges that can re-hire the many thousands of employees who were dependent on it.”

Is Virgin and Stobart working with Cyrus to ensure a business emerges after it was allowed to fail? Has anyone heard this strategy from Virgin and Stobart since the 5th March?. Especially Virgin!!!

How many is many thousands of employees? flybe has circa 2400 (not many thousands as stated) and it would be near on impossible to have a working start up to have that many re-employed.

I understand that people are getting hopeful and positive about some emergence of a regional airline from the dire commercial failure of flybe.

But a large pinch of salt is required to accompany statements on its revival.
Stobart narrowly avoided administration itself earlier this month, and a huge shareholder bailout was needed (in the form of a rights issue) to keep it afloat. Cyrus are a Stobart shareholder (3rd largest pre the rights issue).

It is noteworthy that at the time of the bailout the Stobart board listed Cyrus as not participating in the rights issue.

I don't think Stobart have the funds (or appetite) to have another tilt at FlyBe. I also think Cyrus have had their fill with UK regional airlines given their reported refusal to participate in the Stobart (and by extension Stobart Air) bailout.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 21:31
  #4245 (permalink)  
 
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Since Cyrus has now lost out in its bid to secure Virgin Australia, one wonders how quickly any stated ambition (regardless of how realistic or not) to see Flybe return to the skies will evaporate?!!!
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:38
  #4246 (permalink)  
 
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Just read that article.

Well I assume they will be full thrust on getting flybe up and running again. They definitely have the money seeing s they will not be using it for VA.

So, any day now there will be a statement from one of their advisors stating that UK regional airlines is a priority and they will rejoin with Virgin and Stobart and tell everyone to watch this space. I mean they ARE doing all they can with the other consortium members.

Or we may not here about their regional airline plans again.


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Old 28th Jun 2020, 18:33
  #4247 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jamestkirk View Post
Just read that article.
So, any day now there will be a statement from one of their advisors stating that UK regional airlines is a priority...........
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/new...ts/ar-BB162P8U
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 19:45
  #4248 (permalink)  
 
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This moaning is just ridiculous, a governement loan would just have delayed the inevitable because flybe had a management that just couldn’t come up with a sustainable strategy. They were trying to operate in multiple markets and not doing a very good job in any of them. The takeover just made it worse, one shareholder wanted a long haul feed, one shareholder wanted to seed new routes to attract airlines to their airport and another shareholder just wanted to replicate the money that they made in another Virgin airline. However that airline knew what market they were in and more importantantly the passengers knew what market they were in and were prepared to pay above cost price for their ticket which is why it sold for a large amount of money.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 05:14
  #4249 (permalink)  
 
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Next thing we'll hear is BA is starting a Regional division called BEA.....
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 11:16
  #4250 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like Flybe Aviation Services the MRO was sold at the start of June to Atlantic Aviation Group and they've started flogging off the spare engines too.

Not much left, No planes, Training Academy, Engineering.... just a shell

https://www.skyworld.co.uk/wp-conten...NE-2020-OP.pdf

Wonder who NAC are going to lease their 33 exFlybe and LGW Q400's to?
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:05
  #4251 (permalink)  
 
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Flybe Aviation Services (MRO) was always going to be sold off separate.
The GE CF34-8E Engines that are used on Embraer E170/175 have been sold off to BeauTech Power Systems
And to buy back the Ex Flybe 20 Dash 8 from NORD/LB the price is about £85 Million
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:10
  #4252 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by allan1987 View Post
Flybe Aviation Services (MRO) was always going to be sold off separate.
The GE CF34-8E Engines that are used on Embraer E170/175 have been sold off to BeauTech Power Systems
And to buy back the Ex Flybe 20 Dash 8 from NORD/LB the price is about £85 Million
I reckon we could get that down to 40mil tops.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:32
  #4253 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by asdf1234 View Post
Stobart narrowly avoided administration itself earlier this month, and a huge shareholder bailout was needed (in the form of a rights issue) to keep it afloat. Cyrus are a Stobart shareholder (3rd largest pre the rights issue).

It is noteworthy that at the time of the bailout the Stobart board listed Cyrus as not participating in the rights issue.

I don't think Stobart have the funds (or appetite) to have another tilt at FlyBe. I also think Cyrus have had their fill with UK regional airlines given their reported refusal to participate in the Stobart (and by extension Stobart Air) bailout.
Stobart did NOT receive a bailout from shareholders they simply issued shares and invited current shareholders to purchase said shares and also set up a new credit facility. They were not close to entering administration at all.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 16:19
  #4254 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rowly6339 View Post
Stobart did NOT receive a bailout from shareholders they simply issued shares and invited current shareholders to purchase said shares and also set up a new credit facility. They were not close to entering administration at all.
Read the prospectus issued to support the rights issue first, then you can correct your post...
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 16:27
  #4255 (permalink)  
 
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Page 14 of the rights issue prospectus:

If the Capital Raise does not successfully complete, the Directors expect that Administration (or equivalent local law procedures) of the Company and of certain key trading companies in the Group would be reasonably likely shortly thereafter, and Shareholders would likely lose all or a substantial part of their investment in the Company as a result.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:19
  #4256 (permalink)  
 
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Either way flybe or a new form of it is a hopeless endeavour. Everything is being sold off as quickly as possible and the dream of phoenix airways is nothing more than that. I cant remember who said previously about keeping on the DFO etc. The administrators need that to ferry aircraft around etc. Please dont think that there is daily meeting between ex flybe staff and EY on ceasing the selling of assets to create a new airline. alot of routes are being filled and Eatstern etc will fill more. only the strong will survive the next few years and flybe or any form of it does not even exist.

And here is the simon calder article. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9581661.html

Last edited by cabsav; 1st Jul 2020 at 13:58. Reason: link
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 15:24
  #4257 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cabsav View Post
Either way flybe or a new form of it is a hopeless endeavour. Everything is being sold off as quickly as possible and the dream of phoenix airways is nothing more than that. I cant remember who said previously about keeping on the DFO etc. The administrators need that to ferry aircraft around etc. Please dont think that there is daily meeting between ex flybe staff and EY on ceasing the selling of assets to create a new airline. alot of routes are being filled and Eatstern etc will fill more. only the strong will survive the next few years and flybe or any form of it does not even exist.

And here is the simon calder article. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-a9581661.html
Calder talking sense for once. BE has gone and we should all move on!
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 16:36
  #4258 (permalink)  
 
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Departures

Originally Posted by OltonPete View Post
At least 6 aircraft on the move thus far today but still none at all from BHX

E195 - EK Exeter to Norwich
DH8D - PN Exeter to Maastricht
DH8D - OA - Exeter to Saarbrucken
DH8D - CL - Exeter - Weeze or Maastricht?
DH8D - CO Exeter - Maastricht
DH8D - DU - Belfast City - Saarbrucken

Pete
The first BHX grounded aircraft left today in a generally ramping up of departures this week. A little bit of irony as easyjet started GLA-BHX today one of Flybe's ex high frequency routes.

DH8D's PL ex BHX, BB ex BHX, DP ex EXT, PA, ex EDI and OT ex MAN. all have moved or in the air,

Not going to be much left soon PH & OB showing as landed Saarbrucken in the last couple of days as well as PB

This leaves 4 x 175 and 4 x DH8D;s at BHX although OR was due to go today as well.

Pete
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 17:28
  #4259 (permalink)  
 
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I am assuming these are the leased ones.

it would be interesting to know if the 20 owned ( but probably mortgaged to the hilt) are sold or still waiting a buyer.

Anyone have any knowledge on that.



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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 21:05
  #4260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: UK
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Does anyone know where I can get historic flight registrations for Flybe flights? I had flights from Southampton to Palma in 2007 but can’t find any registration data.
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