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Flybe-9

Old 16th Jul 2020, 14:23
  #4241 (permalink)  
 
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G-JECK has also left ABZ. The aircraft involved in the ground incident with Loganair, albeit flying at 11,000ft only.
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 14:15
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https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...ing-decisions/

The CAA has withdrawn its decision to remove Flybe's operating license and route license, as a result of the appeal by Flybe's administrators and the regulations adopted by the EU.

In response, Flybe's administrators have given the CAA following undertakings:

“Until the CAA has confirmed in writing that the undertakings are released, Flybe [Limited] will not:

(i) take bookings or sell tickets for flights;
(ii) request or accept payments of any kind from consumers in respect of balances for existing flight bookings unless those flights have been completed; and
(iii) undertake any aircraft operation which requires a valid Operating Licence”.
looks like EY and Cyrus Capital are getting Flybe's operating license and route license back
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Old 18th Jul 2020, 14:39
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Interesting.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 14:10
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FlyBe was a great carrier from the passengers' perspective. I positioned with them many times around the UK, and found the airline and its employees to be top drawer. Just saying, in the face of those earlier who were less than laudatory of the operation. I miss FlyBe. And JEA as was.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 14:19
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Originally Posted by MissChief View Post
FlyBe was a great carrier from the passengers' perspective. I positioned with them many times around the UK, and found the airline and its employees to be top drawer. Just saying, in the face of those earlier who were less than laudatory of the operation. I miss FlyBe. And JEA as was.
Thank You 💜
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 12:25
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I always tried to defend them from their detractors on this forum; mainly without success.
Everyone admits that the rot set in when Jim French did the disastrous deal with Embraer.
Saad Hammad did a great job in trying to turn the company around but ultimately seems to have lost board support. Great shame
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 14:15
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Lots of talk on here about disasterous deal with Embraer but have never seen it quantified. Can anyone clarify what the monthly lease/finance costs were for the two types of Emb?
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 15:31
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It was all quantyfied in the reports and accounts of Flybe plc which have now dissappeared and which i used to quote from often to try to quell idle specilation to no avail.
look ay my posting history on flybe.
In particular, look at my postings from April 2015 which discuss the deal done between Flybe, Republic Airlines and Embraer which saved Flybe millions
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 21:00
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I spent 1.5 decades at Flybe and I've seen the actual lease costs of all their fleet which I'll keep to myself. Suffice to say whilst the E195 costs were staggering, the E175s weren't good reading either.
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 21:11
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If the Embraer costs were so high, how come the board agreed to it in the first place ?
Domineering CEO ? Corporate vanity ? Ignorance ? All three ?
In 2017, the CFO of Norwegian quit, at least showing he was competent... and deserving of being hired by another firm... he's now the Group CFO at Qatar Air
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 21:39
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Just hypothesising....If you remember that the company was the UK (profits taxable) part of the Walker Trust which is an off shore entity, and that many of the aircraft were leased via off short paper Walker trust companies, you'd probably not be at all surprised why the lease costs were what they were.... When the trust sold the company off, it didn't stop leasing the aircraft. It might have allowed the company to swim on it's own, but the millstone round the neck took a couple of years to begin to lessen, two Q400 per month. Again, just my guess.
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 05:09
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The 175s were leased from Binder Bank in Brazil. By Flybe plc, in which Rosedale holdings (Walker family) were shareholders
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 09:47
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
The 175s were leased from Binder Bank in Brazil. By Flybe plc, in which Rosedale holdings (Walker family) were shareholders
They were not leased, they were 85% financed by BNDES (Brazilian Export Development Bank). Once fully paid the aircraft become Flybe's. The 'owned' Q400s have default and returned to those providing the financing, a bank in Germany.
​​​​​
Yet these E175 still seem to be owned by Flybe Leasing 1, so unless BNDES has taken ownership of the company Flybe Leasing 1 then these E175s are in theory still Flybe's?
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 10:20
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Thanks for the correction. The point i'm trying to make is that the Walker family were not respinsible for yhe high kease cost on the jets
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 11:30
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Several of the 195s were leased from Falko, which has no connection to Flybe shareholders throughout any era. One of the (many) problems was that the 195s were on reverse-stepped rentals so that in the early days, cheaper rentals worked quite well. The theory was that as passenger growth matured and the market continued to grow, the airline could then afford higher monthly lease rates later in the deal ($210-230k/month if I remember rightly). Clearly as we all know, that didn't happen and so the ability to pay the rentals was decreasing at a time when the rentals to which they had committed were increasing, and a yawning gap developed between costs and revenue.
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 11:38
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Yikes that was bound to hurt the bottom line.
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 12:23
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..and to add to the pain noted by Flightrider, following the ordered disposal of LGW by BAA and as the airport became more and more capacity constrained (where Flybe were the 4th largest slot holder), costs increased as operators of smaller aircraft were penalised.

A perfect storm which relied to heavily on kicking the ball into the long grass with the hopes that things would be better further down the line.

Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 21st Jul 2020 at 23:21.
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 18:39
  #4258 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BOHEuropean View Post
The 'owned' Q400s have default and returned to those providing the financing, a bank in Germany.
​​​​​
How do you know that? We know they've pretty all much left the country.
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 18:49
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Originally Posted by Jamie2009 View Post
How do you know that? We know they've pretty all much left the country.
can see this on G INFO

20 "Owned" Q400s Registered now under NORD/LB
6 E175s Registered now under FLYBE LEASING CAYMAN 1 LTD
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Old 21st Jul 2020, 20:21
  #4260 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
If the Embraer costs were so high, how come the board agreed to it in the first place ?
Domineering CEO ? Corporate vanity ? Ignorance ? All three ?
In 2017, the CFO of Norwegian quit, at least showing he was competent... and deserving of being hired by another firm... he's now the Group CFO at Qatar Air
Partly because they fell into the usual trap of thinking a move to a larger aircraft was a logical step but mainly because of this ridiculous mantra that jet aircraft are superior and will result in more people flying with them.

Ultimately the majority of people want to fly for as cheap as possible regardless of any little niggles like noise from the plane. FR would have gone out of business long ago if it wasnít for the fact that the price is paramount for travellers. I have said it a number of times on here that the q400 was BEs USP, and their whole business was built around it. Clearly BE had their pants taken down with the 195 deal, which was made even worse by the fact a market never materialised for them. They were just flown around in a desperate attempt to slightly reduce the lease costs. The 175 was never needed, and was purely bought to pander to the ridiculous notion that jets are superior. Which is why they were mainly flown out of BHX and MAN on routes where AF and LH competed. It was another ball and chain around BEs ankle that they didnít need. If they stuck to just having the Q400 BE would probably still be around today, even with the numerous morons that have been in charge over the years. Perhaps they could have even picked up a few A220s by now to serve A few holiday routes like Wideroe and Binter have done with the E-2. Air Baltic are proving the a220 is a good aircraft for low cost travel but BE are predominately a regional carrier so only a couple like wideroe/binter have exploded themselves to would work. I remember quite clearly at the time the 175s were introduced that they had numerous options in place with the idea that they would replace all the q400s. Utter madness.
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