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Flybe-9

Old 3rd Feb 2020, 22:48
  #3161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: England, UK
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by Jenny Tails View Post
I fear some posters here may at best be mistaken and at worst be trying to cause mischief.

There has been talk of £500m. But this is a £500m package of measures that Boris Johnson will announce to boost regional connectivity in and around the UK. Not a £500m investment or loan to Flybe. More a £500m economic insurance package to guard against the negative effects of Flybe failing.

I have said enough for now.

jenny tails, in post 3105 you stated without an official announcement you wouldn't want to post anything here.
Set 1013 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2020, 23:08
  #3162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
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Originally Posted by EI-BUD View Post
BRS is a perfect alternative to CWL, I'd suggest already a large cohort of Wales/Cardiff residents go to BRS already anyway.
Yes they do but it's not exactly a perfect alternative as it's not in Wales and BRS isn't exactly easy to get to but I'd imagine that Cardiff airport and the government would get someone to replace them eventually.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 01:01
  #3163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 861
Originally Posted by MDS View Post
Sorry, it makes no sense at all.
Another airline can easily replace all the routes and service that Flybe provides. (although without the crippling debt and inept management)
I've yet to see a single effort to turnaround BE in the past few years besides ploughing millions of pounds into repainting planes purple and endeavoring to change the name.. I don't see what £500m of taxpayer funds will achieve besides a temporary extension before the tin pot comes banging back again; to quote Oliver Twist, "please sir, can I have some more?"
What ofher airline? Run the list.
Loganair are still digesting BMI Regional (this is the Stobart / flybe likely end game) so they’re maxed out.
Eastern not likely, ambition no longer there.
easyJet or Ryanair will cherry pick for volume and frequency needed by business can swivel. Ask IOM
Blue Islands? Nope
Aurigny? Bigger nope.
er.....
That’s it. All the lil guys are gone, a changing market and the killer of APD saw to that.
Many of the routes and frequencies will go unserved, unless Stobart really do step in and do a Loganair/BMI Regional.....
Skipness One Foxtrot is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 04:04
  #3164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Downunder
Posts: 407
Surely, quite apart from the state aid legality, a fundamental problem is a clear non-alignment of the respective government & shareholder aims?
The government apparently wants regional connectivity, yet the owners have no particular altruism re such a focus and presumably will be quite happy to dump such minor regional routes routes for LHR slots or feed, or to apply potential government funds (rather than raising their own risk capital) to international (suicidal) start ups, such as those allegedly being considered from LHR & LCY.

If the government wishes to assist the public and the regional airports, it should find a direct mechanism to do so, perhaps by simply tendering PSOs on the critical domestic routes (which would flush out any healthier alternative contenders).
The suggestion of a loan (presumably unsecured by VS/DL?) in lieu of owner's money is simply a "heads we win, tails they lose" for VS/DL, which leaves the latter with either a successfully revived Flybe or a deferred collapse, both at no cost to themselves.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 06:28
  #3165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: EGAC
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by Set 1013 View Post
jenny tails, in post 3105 you stated without an official announcement you wouldn't want to post anything here.
Yes I did. But then the rumours and conjecture got worse!
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 10:20
  #3166 (permalink)  
MDS
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
What ofher airline? Run the list.
Loganair are still digesting BMI Regional (this is the Stobart / flybe likely end game) so they’re maxed out.
Eastern not likely, ambition no longer there.
easyJet or Ryanair will cherry pick for volume and frequency needed by business can swivel. Ask IOM
Blue Islands? Nope
Aurigny? Bigger nope.
er.....
That’s it. All the lil guys are gone, a changing market and the killer of APD saw to that.
Many of the routes and frequencies will go unserved, unless Stobart really do step in and do a Loganair/BMI Regional.....
If there is a profitable market for the routes that Flybe currently serves if they become vacant, then clearly another airline will take their place as simply a smart business decision. Whether this is U2, FR, T3, LC, is down to them. Otherwise, a new airline or subsidiary can be set up, free to take on the existing Flybe infrastructure and staff, to cherry pick the profitable and survivable routes. That's how the free market works - if there's profits to be made, they will come.

If there's not a profitable market for the remainder of the routes, then a serious discussion on PSO needs to occur, in which case key and vital connecting routes can be subsidized. Think: NQY-LGW (which I believe NQY-LON is subsidized already), not LCY-LUX or LHR-DUS.

I will not however accept that the government should give a "commercial loan" (where no other commercial bank would) to throw good money after bad in subsidizing a very wealthy consortium of owners under the pretense of "If Flybe don't exist, who will fill the market?!". I don't care whether this is £1, £100m, or £500m - the government has no place in giving tax money to charlatan vulture funds, regardless of if it's dressed up in a pretty box masquerading to be a "loan".
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 10:43
  #3167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southampton
Posts: 143
Eurostar??

Was announced this morning that the new direct Eurostar route LON-AMS will commence on 30th April, then also start serving ROT from May 18th, fares from as little as £35 each way, could this create a new competition hurdle for BE?? or any other airline for that matter??
Dropoffcharge is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 11:54
  #3168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the road
Posts: 779
Originally Posted by EI-BUD View Post
I can see easyJet lining up to take the best parts of the Flybe network. I'd not be surprised if easyJet opened on the larger short routes out of SOU with 319. BFS could easily be stepped up to accomdate BHD routes. BRS is a perfect alternative to CWL, I'd suggest already a large cohort of Wales/Cardiff residents go to BRS already anyway. Any viable /attractive routes would likely attract services in their own right.

The thinner niche routes like from more remote locations like EXT and NQY/ West Country would be picked up by Loganair, Stobart, Flybe, or Eastern and the government recognised where exemptions to APD should apply...

If there is demand the airlines who operate will provide jobs and sustainable services without need for public finances.

And at a time when for eg.the NHS and hospital system is under immense pressure (e.g. NI), how can the suggested £500M be even considered?
They already have which is part of the problem. The 2 biggest cash cows on the Flybe network were BHX-GLA/EDI which Easy have already announced.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 12:00
  #3169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
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Originally Posted by TartinTon View Post
They already have which is part of the problem. The 2 biggest cash cows on the Flybe network were BHX-GLA/EDI which Easy have already announced.
Unless you work in an airline finance department, then it's unlikely that you know what routes are 'cash cows'. That information is usually closely guarded information.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 13:00
  #3170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BHX
Posts: 305
Rumour is from Exeter announcement regarding big cash injection imminent . Rumour is itís between 500 and 750 million pounds
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 13:10
  #3171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
Rumour is from Exeter announcement regarding big cash injection imminent . Rumour is itís between 500 and 750 million pounds
Rumour has it this will last until the next rumours start!
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 13:15
  #3172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by SKOJB View Post
Rumour has it this will last until the next rumours start!
Quite.

An internal email this morning had a vague whiff of positivity to it, saying the process would hopefully be completed "soon".
FinalSegment is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 13:31
  #3173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 567
Originally Posted by Brigantee View Post
Rumour is from Exeter announcement regarding big cash injection imminent . Rumour is itís between 500 and 750 million pounds
Can we just stop this nonsense, whilst hoping there remains a viable business for those employed at Flybe, nobody is going to be putting that sort of money into this business.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 14:34
  #3174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: EGAC
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
Can we just stop this nonsense, whilst hoping there remains a viable business for those employed at Flybe, nobody is going to be putting that sort of money into this business.
This. People are on the edge waiting to hear if they will have a job going forward. Please can we all stop with the ridiculous rumours. Nobody is pumping the best part of a billion quid into the airline currently known as Flybe.
Jenny Tails is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:23
  #3175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the road
Posts: 779
Originally Posted by The96er View Post
Unless you work in an airline finance department, then it's unlikely that you know what routes are 'cash cows'. That information is usually closely guarded information.
I know what I know...whether you believe it or not, I couldn't care less.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:27
  #3176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by Dropoffcharge View Post
Was announced this morning that the new direct Eurostar route LON-AMS will commence on 30th April, then also start serving ROT from May 18th, fares from as little as £35 each way, could this create a new competition hurdle for BE?? or any other airline for that matter??
Probably not apart from for travelers from the Southeast, and even then with the laborious traipsing off the train to pass through UK border controls at Lille, which I believe still happens, over a distance such as AMS I would have thought the plane would still be competitive.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:50
  #3177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Age: 57
Posts: 2,499
The brand is trashed, well and truly! It’s a dead duck.
Damaged certainly, but trashed I would suggest is a bit harsh. Past senior management certainly have a lot to answer for, that is beyond doubt. The people from Flybe who I interact with as I travel do a great job, that is beyond doubt also.

However, in cases where there is no sensible alternative (eg, routes that involve a water crossing or an all-day journey by other means) and where someone else is paying, I would suggest that much of that business will continue.

I work for a large Corp. and no-one in our corporate travel team is saying we shouldn't be booking Flybe flights (not surprisingly, they are saying we shouldn't go to China). I've just done one for a few weeks time and may well have another coming-up in mid-March, so ops normal from my perspective and probably many other business travellers.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:56
  #3178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: London
Posts: 273
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Probably not apart from for travelers from the Southeast, and even then with the laborious traipsing off the train to pass through UK border controls at Lille, which I believe still happens, over a distance such as AMS I would have thought the plane would still be competitive.
There are direct trains to Amsterdam already. The return involves faffing around at Brussels. But this is what is about to change. Frequencies are not great though so I think at this stage the impact on flights will be small
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 17:00
  #3179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: far far away
Posts: 98
I've been in the aviation business for a long long time, the cyclical nature of the business is frustrating and frankly sometimes worrying. Having read through the last number of posts on this thread quite frankly disgusts me. The number of keyboard warriors who know exactly what has happened and more surprising, what is going to happen, completely astounds me. From utter d*ckheads querying quality of maintenance to other financial experts who seem to know the exact profitability on each route FlyBe serve is actually scary. The next scary part is that some work experience reporter may also stumble upon these posts and publish them in the Daily Mail as some form of inside information.

Please stop! Before you post utter tripe remember that there are many hundreds of employees at FlyBe who find themselves in a position that was not of their making and their only intention is to put a roof over their heads and provide for their families.

As someone who is actually involved in aviation, unlike some of the posters on here, I don't know the full story of what happened in the Flybe boardroom nor do I know what is going to happen. I would suggest the vast majority of posters here are in the dark as much as me and to suggest otherwise is both irresponsible and mischievous. Please stop posting utter bollox when the reality is you have no idea. Go back to your flight sim or playstation and come back when you're adults.

Rant over.
escaped.atco is offline  
Old 4th Feb 2020, 17:16
  #3180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In a Bar
Posts: 223
Wot he said.....
Jn14:6 is offline  

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