Ryanair-10
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 388
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So the question is why did they continue to offer such a schedule when they could see this coming and knew their resources.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It wasn't their fault, They had to change holiday accruement dates to fit in with a thing called a calendar. And obviously, it was a surprise that there was a strike in France. And also, who could predict the weather? Rain in summer? Whats next? Ground the fleet this winter because snow is forecast in Dubai?
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real reason pure and simple is that people are leaving quicker than they can be replaced. At long last employees and ZHC's are realising there are other options out there and have had enough. Irrespective of how they try and spin it, it is a situation of their own making. Greed has triumphed over common sense. They refuse to engage with the workforce, maybe they'll listen to the markets on Monday?
Ryanair has form, going back at least 15 years, of abusing the regulations on how many hours pilots can fly in any rolling 12-month period.
The airline used to argue (maybe they still do) that as long as the April-to-March figure is within the limit, then the number of hours flown in any other rolling 12-month period doesn't matter.
I suspect that could well be at the root of the present problem, where the current flying programme would lead to crews busting the limit for the 12 months up to the end of October.
Inquiry into Ryanair pilots' working hours
I'm reminded of Zig Ziglar (a US motivational speaker) who stated decades ago that the biggest mistake the (US) airlines made was to think they were in the "transportation" business yet they (in common with almost every business) are actually in the "people" business - i.e. good relationships between the company and the customers and the staff etc.
It seems little has been learned.
It seems little has been learned.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Inquiry into Ryanair pilots' working hours
The Irish Times says that RYR came to an agreement in mid-2016 with IAA & EASA to align its year to EASA standard of January 1st - December 31st. This has caused problems in allocating leave etc. It also says that IAA is investigating if RYR pilots had been working over legal FTL's due to a 'zeroing of hours' in April as the old financial year was dated. It also says that part of the dispute/agreement was over the definition of a calendar year as defined in FTL's. I find it astonishing that IAA is bringing this investigation about now when they approved the zeroing policy >15 years ago and therefore must have been aware of the practice. Has EASA at last proved useful on behalf of crews? And what of C/A's. They also have limits.
The Irish Times says that RYR came to an agreement in mid-2016 with IAA & EASA to align its year to EASA standard of January 1st - December 31st. This has caused problems in allocating leave etc. It also says that IAA is investigating if RYR pilots had been working over legal FTL's due to a 'zeroing of hours' in April as the old financial year was dated. It also says that part of the dispute/agreement was over the definition of a calendar year as defined in FTL's. I find it astonishing that IAA is bringing this investigation about now when they approved the zeroing policy >15 years ago and therefore must have been aware of the practice. Has EASA at last proved useful on behalf of crews? And what of C/A's. They also have limits.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it astonishing that IAA is bringing this investigation about now when they approved the zeroing policy >15 years ago and therefore must have been aware of the practice.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ions-1.3223808
"it was emphasised that, despite the permission, no pilot should go over the limit in any rolling 12-month period. It's the company's responsibility as well as the pilots' to abide by that."
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Yorks
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bullet Points
Its cheaper to pay pax compo than:
I do think that Norwegian should re-design one of the old Ryr adverts to dig in a little.
- reward your staff
- provide a duty of care for stsff
- offer professional customer service
- complete your contractual obligation of transporting customers
- sub-contatct any available ad-hoc capacity
- A small percentage will vow to never fly with them again
- A quick £9.99 seat sale will help most to overlook their principles and on we go again.
I do think that Norwegian should re-design one of the old Ryr adverts to dig in a little.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"it was emphasised that, despite the permission, no pilot should go over the limit in any rolling 12-month period. It's the company's responsibility as well as the pilots' to abide by that."
Ah, but did they? The company that is? It would be difficult for a lonely pilot to refuse a roster they considered broke FTL's and lose out any contractor payments. What about type rated guys who joined from other operators, before the current winter grounding, with hours in the bank, went onto the line quickly and then were zero'd in April and worked like slaves until October. Was anyone looking out for them? It would be a nifty computer program for rostering to keep track of their individual 12 month hours; but good if they tried.
Ah, but did they? The company that is? It would be difficult for a lonely pilot to refuse a roster they considered broke FTL's and lose out any contractor payments. What about type rated guys who joined from other operators, before the current winter grounding, with hours in the bank, went onto the line quickly and then were zero'd in April and worked like slaves until October. Was anyone looking out for them? It would be a nifty computer program for rostering to keep track of their individual 12 month hours; but good if they tried.
The article would suggest not:
"In the past fortnight, a Ryanair pilot has issued a formal complaint against the airline, claiming he had been rostered to fly for longer than the 900-hour recommended limit for a year.
Several other complaints have been made to the British Airline Pilots' Association (BALPA), which expressed concern yesterday at apparent breaches in safety regulations.
A spokesman for the association said one of the complainants had alleged that more than half of Ryanair pilots were working over hours."
"In the past fortnight, a Ryanair pilot has issued a formal complaint against the airline, claiming he had been rostered to fly for longer than the 900-hour recommended limit for a year.
Several other complaints have been made to the British Airline Pilots' Association (BALPA), which expressed concern yesterday at apparent breaches in safety regulations.
A spokesman for the association said one of the complainants had alleged that more than half of Ryanair pilots were working over hours."
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair has form, going back at least 15 years, of abusing the regulations on how many hours pilots can fly in any rolling 12-month period.
The airline used to argue (maybe they still do) that as long as the April-to-March figure is within the limit, then the number of hours flown in any other rolling 12-month period doesn't matter.
I suspect that could well be at the root of the present problem, where the current flying programme would lead to crews busting the limit for the 12 months up to the end of October.
The airline used to argue (maybe they still do) that as long as the April-to-March figure is within the limit, then the number of hours flown in any other rolling 12-month period doesn't matter.
I suspect that could well be at the root of the present problem, where the current flying programme would lead to crews busting the limit for the 12 months up to the end of October.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair scheduling update
Ryanair cancels flights after 'messing up' pilot holidays - BBC News
Interesting to see that earlier Pprune posts explained 'that ;-)' before the airline got this message out. My compliments to the Pprune posters!
Marketing officer Kenny Jacobs said affected customers with bookings up to 20 September had been informed."We have messed up in the planning of pilot holidays and we're working hard to fix that," he said.Most of the cancellations are due to a backlog of staff leave which has seen large numbers of the airline's staff book holidays towards the end of the year.The airline is changing its holiday year, which currently runs from April to March, to run from January to December instead.Rynanair said the shift meant it had to allocate annual leave to pilots in September and October.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Still looking
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I gather FR insist that pilots make a choice of months from a list and then company allocates it. 25 days leave, 15 must be taken in the one month (works out with 5/4 roster). They reduced the ad hoc days from 10 to 3 to account for reduced year. Used to only be applicable to contractors... part of the whole self employed lark. Then rolled out to all staff. Company surly knew about this a long time in advance (2016 according to press?) So either they got their maths wrong (I have my doubts) or they sold a schedule but underestimated the resignations and over estimated training capacity. Appropriate, good, stable staffing are the key to any business and FR would do well to address these fundamental issues. It must be getting expensive. As an aside I gather there's a rumour of a backlog of delivery's that are on hold due to FR not wanting to accept them at this time. Anyone with info on this?
I was asked by a relative about whether he should book a flight given the risk of cancellations.... no idea was my answer. I think he's booked with a competitor as he can't take the risk due work and therin lies another cost that's difficult to quantify..... trust!
I was asked by a relative about whether he should book a flight given the risk of cancellations.... no idea was my answer. I think he's booked with a competitor as he can't take the risk due work and therin lies another cost that's difficult to quantify..... trust!
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@skyloone ...
From an organizational point of view this is a very interesting case. As close to an organizational systemic failure as you can get, and one which (at first sight) is completely internal from a causal point of view. With obvious and damaging external effects of course.
In general such cases have a number of cultural and personal aspects in common. Sometimes the solution is fast and surprisingly easy. In other cases ...
From an organizational point of view this is a very interesting case. As close to an organizational systemic failure as you can get, and one which (at first sight) is completely internal from a causal point of view. With obvious and damaging external effects of course.
In general such cases have a number of cultural and personal aspects in common. Sometimes the solution is fast and surprisingly easy. In other cases ...