Thomas Cook-2
You've summed it up Thaihawk. The industry is great fun ... when going well ... but is so very unforgiving when it all heads South, for whatever reason. Good luck to all. A woefully inadequate sentiment I'm afraid..... H 'n' H
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Wilmslow
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hrg
Quick question. My folks are currently in HRG and due to fly back on Saturday. As I understand it the route needed a sharkleted A321 for TCX to operate it.
Can HRG take widebodies? I've tried googling to no avail and all scheduled ops are narrow body so I'm trying to plan in advance if they will need to book themselves.
As I understand it a standard A321 couldn't do the journey in a dense config so a titan operated Avion frame wouldn't do the flight similarly any 738 used for repatriation also couldn't do the flight non stop. I'm aware titan have 757's that could do the journey but as I understand it they are tied up with other work currently.
Sorry for the many questions, i'm just trying to provide them with as much comfort as possible and with the specks of knowledge I have regarding the HRG and the airlines/aircraft being used for repatriation I've got as far as this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Can HRG take widebodies? I've tried googling to no avail and all scheduled ops are narrow body so I'm trying to plan in advance if they will need to book themselves.
As I understand it a standard A321 couldn't do the journey in a dense config so a titan operated Avion frame wouldn't do the flight similarly any 738 used for repatriation also couldn't do the flight non stop. I'm aware titan have 757's that could do the journey but as I understand it they are tied up with other work currently.
Sorry for the many questions, i'm just trying to provide them with as much comfort as possible and with the specks of knowledge I have regarding the HRG and the airlines/aircraft being used for repatriation I've got as far as this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wolverhampton
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An aside
An aside - in the midst of this nightmare scenario for everyone concerned it was interesting nevertheless to see on BBC News on t'internet a picture of 2 ex-MON 321s G-ZBAE, now G-TCVB and G-ZBAO now G-TCVD still in their basic MON scheme + TC 'Heart' tail and quarantined at MAN.
They never got to the paint shop proper. I hope their next Owners /Leasers are kinder to them.
They never got to the paint shop proper. I hope their next Owners /Leasers are kinder to them.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quick question. My folks are currently in HRG and due to fly back on Saturday. As I understand it the route needed a sharkleted A321 for TCX to operate it.
Can HRG take widebodies? I've tried googling to no avail and all scheduled ops are narrow body so I'm trying to plan in advance if they will need to book themselves.
As I understand it a standard A321 couldn't do the journey in a dense config so a titan operated Avion frame wouldn't do the flight similarly any 738 used for repatriation also couldn't do the flight non stop. I'm aware titan have 757's that could do the journey but as I understand it they are tied up with other work currently.
Sorry for the many questions, i'm just trying to provide them with as much comfort as possible and with the specks of knowledge I have regarding the HRG and the airlines/aircraft being used for repatriation I've got as far as this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Can HRG take widebodies? I've tried googling to no avail and all scheduled ops are narrow body so I'm trying to plan in advance if they will need to book themselves.
As I understand it a standard A321 couldn't do the journey in a dense config so a titan operated Avion frame wouldn't do the flight similarly any 738 used for repatriation also couldn't do the flight non stop. I'm aware titan have 757's that could do the journey but as I understand it they are tied up with other work currently.
Sorry for the many questions, i'm just trying to provide them with as much comfort as possible and with the specks of knowledge I have regarding the HRG and the airlines/aircraft being used for repatriation I've got as far as this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been looking at the CAA site on repatriation flights.
https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/custome...y-destination/
In most cases you can see the operating airline, but a couple of the flights still have MT codes. For instance the PUJ repatriation today is still listed as MT2629. Is this a typo or is it one of the leased TC aircraft being used to mop stuff up, e.g. AirTanker?
https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/custome...y-destination/
In most cases you can see the operating airline, but a couple of the flights still have MT codes. For instance the PUJ repatriation today is still listed as MT2629. Is this a typo or is it one of the leased TC aircraft being used to mop stuff up, e.g. AirTanker?
racedo,
"Response is correct without any further information.
A company going into Administration in UK ceases to trade immediately. The law is however different in pretty much all other countries..."
There is a difference between going into Administration and going into Liquidation.
My understanding is that TC has gone into liquidation.
"Response is correct without any further information.
A company going into Administration in UK ceases to trade immediately. The law is however different in pretty much all other countries..."
There is a difference between going into Administration and going into Liquidation.
My understanding is that TC has gone into liquidation.
UK law does not apply in Germany or elsewhere which is why some TC owned companys there may continue trading but they will have no parent intercompany guarantees to rely on which is when a bank will get nervous.
Overall duty of Liquidator / Administrator is to get maximum for the companys assets to satisfy the secured creditors, the unsecured creditors (airports, handling companys, fuel suppliers, etc etc) are unsecured and will be lucky to get 1p in the pound in debt repayments.
In many cases the unsecured suppliers will end up following the path of their Debtor as few companies will be able to withstand the cash loss of not getting paid. Hence if working for one of TC suppliers best to start looking now rather than in a week.
I don't think it is not so much about being clever, but about one's legal position. Because of the problems TC was facing, Condor most likely terminated the profit transfer agreement a while ago with cause as TC was no longer in a position to honour its part of the agreement.
The time Lehman Brothers went bust the corporate treasury team were sucking in all the money from every country in the days before it happened.
Their annual accounts for last year show around £170 million
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...ounts_2018.pdf
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...ounts_2018.pdf
As soon as a supplier believes their customer will not trade into the future, then no credit is available and it will seek to recover all money immediately and any discounts they enjoyed as a major customer cease to exist.............. full price only.
Guess the public message people hear is "Suppliers to Woolworths are unable to obtain credit insurance", hence nobody will supply anything unless they are paid in advance and as was the case with a number of Airlines a couple of years ago the Credit Card companies refused to pay across any money received because of potential claims.
It is a horrible messy business for all concerned and have seen a few.
A US buddy has been through 5 Chapter 11's within Airline Industry, hence his view is screw every penny out of them because he knows they will do it to him. The first time he lost 15 yrs of pension payments, seniority etc. He has lost little since as keeps everything separate. To be fair he is on wife number 3 and privately said not sure what was painful the Chapter 11's or the divorces.
I have been looking at the CAA site on repatriation flights.
https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/custome...y-destination/
In most cases you can see the operating airline, but a couple of the flights still have MT codes. For instance the PUJ repatriation today is still listed as MT2629. Is this a typo or is it one of the leased TC aircraft being used to mop stuff up, e.g. AirTanker?
https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/custome...y-destination/
In most cases you can see the operating airline, but a couple of the flights still have MT codes. For instance the PUJ repatriation today is still listed as MT2629. Is this a typo or is it one of the leased TC aircraft being used to mop stuff up, e.g. AirTanker?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Profit transfer is irrelevant, it is the cash which is key here. A subsidary can refuse to transfer the cash / delay or do everything it can to ensure it is kept within its business. In doing this of course they are breaching ownership rules but when it comes to this it really is about survival. Holding £1 million in cash may mean the difference in you being able to open the doors on a monday and not. If company goes bust at the weekend the cash stays in subsidaries account and while still may owe it you can take a lot longer to pay while surviving. Basically if making money in all likelihood someone will buy it quickly.
Probably missed the reasons..however..could the TC aircraft and yes..even crews(well paid of course) be used for this airlift?
could have saved an awful lot of sub charter money and kept business in the UK?
just a thought.
could have saved an awful lot of sub charter money and kept business in the UK?
just a thought.
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The simple answer is no. Once TC entered liquidation their Operating License and AOC were immediately suspended or revoked. This mean there is no legal basis for the aircraft to operate. Moving aircraft onto another airlines AOC is not instantaneous and all crew would have to be trained on the different operations.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont think aircraft can move now until airport fees are paid for a start. I may be wrong and someone can correct me but i think a number of TCX Cabin crew are working on the Avion / Smartlynx under the ZT code.
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
never forget that those people lost their job ! There is a PSYCHOLOGICAL reason CAA grounds the AOC. Just think of 58 Year old Captain who knows he might not get a new job. With this pressure he shouldn't operate an A/C
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: london
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are Thomas Cook cabin crew who were trained on Avion & Smartlynx before the summer who are still operating.
The Crewing/Ops/Flight Planning teams are all still in work too.
The Crewing/Ops/Flight Planning teams are all still in work too.