Thomas Cook-2
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Could you please provide some proof of this? Monarch was predominantly a scheduled carrier and only a small percentage of our trade was package holiday bookings.
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Note: if the restructure goes through TCX will truly be separate from the rest of the group. In this case a failure of one wouldn’t guarantee a failure of the other. However, at least in the near term it would probably be likely.
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The issue at play here is the cut and dry nature of doing business, and the brutal way in which regulation works. One thing is for sure, the wishful thinking that the UK Government would step in and bailout/nationalise the company, is exactly that - wishful thinking. The government would not go anywhere near it. It would certainly get very messy with respect of EU state funding rules if it even attempted such a move.
I'm inclined to also think that Monarch was more non-package direct ticket sales operation than a package operation at the end, and that Thomas Cook remains predominantly package holiday-filled flights, be that for a week at the beach or their sports and cruise arms.
All the points that rog747 made are entirely accurate in this instance. In business and in regulation, there is no time for sentiment and certainly no respect for heritage. If you don't have the dosh, you're finished. Simple as that.
I'm inclined to also think that Monarch was more non-package direct ticket sales operation than a package operation at the end, and that Thomas Cook remains predominantly package holiday-filled flights, be that for a week at the beach or their sports and cruise arms.
All the points that rog747 made are entirely accurate in this instance. In business and in regulation, there is no time for sentiment and certainly no respect for heritage. If you don't have the dosh, you're finished. Simple as that.
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Schedule vs charter doesn’t necessarily make the determination. It all depends on where the money is coming from and whether or not there is enough coming in plus reserves to pay the bills. I was making the Monarch inference from the statement the company released at the time. I am very happy to be corrected on this. It could also have been the corporate structure that forced the airline into admin. Insolvency law is a complicated space and in some cases mutual credit webs will drag multiple companies down. What isn’t disputed is that if an airline in the UK calls in the administrators they must cease trading.
Note: if the restructure goes through TCX will truly be separate from the rest of the group. In this case a failure of one wouldn’t guarantee a failure of the other. However, at least in the near term it would probably be likely.
Thanks Pholling, that is fair enough. Regarding the Monarch statement you are wrong but to be honest that is in the past anyway. We can only hope that the same doesn’t happen to the Thomas Cook employees!
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Any administrator worth their salt will want to get best value for the asset, and there is more value in an operating asset than there is in a closed one.
Where ceasing trading comes in, is when there is simply no money in the pot to pay creditors, and they start withdrawing their services and/or labour. For an airline, this is devastating because, as a brutal example, if you don't pay for your refuelling on arrival in Palma de Mallorca for your packed charter back to East Midlands, the folks on the ground in Palma are not going to let your aircraft leave.......... now we're off to the races.
To some extent that would depend on the rules in each of the other jurisdictions regarding AOCs and insolvency. However, if the AOC of the UK airline is suspended they will have to immediately sell their slots or lose them. This means they could not easily return to the same operations in the UK once they regained their AOC. Further, last minute transfers of ownership to other airlines in the group would probably be “frowned upon”.
Aircraft and staff are transferred between the group AOCs with relative ease throughout the year. Also AOCs and slots have very little to do with ownership.
Thomas Cook has been using BA slots at LGW all year, and Condor used Thomas Cook slots at Gatwick and Manchester last year.
Whatever happens, if a pre pack is deemed the best way to go, bigger legal brains than mine will be bought to bear on the issue.
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It cannot be great if you’re a TCX employee but I do think, despite all of the doom and gloom surrounding TCX, that they will likely scrape through this by the skin of their teeth.
IMHO the media coverage, some of it people may see as scaremonging, has been the nail in the coffin for TCX. Are consumers likely to start putting faith back into TCX if they do pull through? I’m not so sure. The publicity surrounding the whole situation cannot be helping the already awful looking financial predicament.
For any crew on here, let’s hope for the best.
IMHO the media coverage, some of it people may see as scaremonging, has been the nail in the coffin for TCX. Are consumers likely to start putting faith back into TCX if they do pull through? I’m not so sure. The publicity surrounding the whole situation cannot be helping the already awful looking financial predicament.
For any crew on here, let’s hope for the best.
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It's quite clear that the company isn't going down without a fight, having today filed for bankruptcy protection in the US against possible foreclosure from US creditors.
It also goes to show just how precarious the situation really is. The company now requires protection from the courts to continue operating in the short term.
Source: Bloomberg
It also goes to show just how precarious the situation really is. The company now requires protection from the courts to continue operating in the short term.
Source: Bloomberg
You're wrong to assume the CAA is just a giant bank that's there to keep large airlines aloft. I'm afraid that isn't in their remit. They will obviously be disappointed if the airline collapsed and people lose jobs but it isn't their job to look after failing companies, but to be a safety regulator and to protect the consumer.
The Credit Derivatives Determinations Committee will meet at midday UK time (BST) on Thursday 19 September to decide whether filing for Chapter 15 bankruptcy in the USA has triggered a credit event and thus whether credit default swap protection has been invoked
To those not familiar with the credit default swaps, this will all sound tediously dull, but the outcome of this meeting may have a significant impact on the long term survival of Thomas Cook
https://www.cdsdeterminationscommitt...ook-group-plc/
To those not familiar with the credit default swaps, this will all sound tediously dull, but the outcome of this meeting may have a significant impact on the long term survival of Thomas Cook
https://www.cdsdeterminationscommitt...ook-group-plc/
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Not sure any of that is true.
Aircraft and staff are transferred between the group AOCs with relative ease throughout the year. Also AOCs and slots have very little to do with ownership.
Thomas Cook has been using BA slots at LGW all year, and Condor used Thomas Cook slots at Gatwick and Manchester last year.
Whatever happens, if a pre pack is deemed the best way to go, bigger legal brains than mine will be bought to bear on the issue.
Last edited by pholling; 18th Sep 2019 at 08:49. Reason: corrected a misspelling
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https://www.gov.uk/government/public...w-final-report
It it was a standard part of the proceedings.
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It is only done by a company that is in not only dire straits, but simply does not have the cash on hand right at that moment of filing. It buys Thomas Cook a few days of continuing liquidity at best, but should such a filing be on the cards in Europe, its straight to the administrators without passing go or collecting 200.
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Filing for bankruptcy protection is by no means a standard part of proceedings. The whole purpose of the filing in the US courts is to stop Thomas Cook's creditors over there from grounding its planes or turning its paying customers away from hotels that haven't been paid. It also stops the bondholders from calling in their positions.
It is only done by a company that is in not only dire straits, but simply does not have the cash on hand right at that moment of filing. It buys Thomas Cook a few days of continuing liquidity at best, but should such a filing be on the cards in Europe, its straight to the administrators without passing go or collecting 200.
It is only done by a company that is in not only dire straits, but simply does not have the cash on hand right at that moment of filing. It buys Thomas Cook a few days of continuing liquidity at best, but should such a filing be on the cards in Europe, its straight to the administrators without passing go or collecting 200.
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I can't see it being favourable for Thomas Cook at that meeting. The Chapter 15 effectively blocks some of the bondholders from derailing the sale or re-organisation of the company by paying them out on the basis of the company being in default, thus triggering the CDDC meeting.
If the CDDC meeting gives a damning verdict on the company's position and liquidity (which it almost certainly will), it will turn out to be a very tough end of the week for the company on the European markets - if its shares aren't suspended from trading by then.
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Perhaps a more informed article diffident....
https://www.ft.com/content/c495f92e-...b-77216ebe1f17
https://www.ft.com/content/c495f92e-...b-77216ebe1f17
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Perhaps a more informed article diffident....
https://www.ft.com/content/c495f92e-...b-77216ebe1f17
https://www.ft.com/content/c495f92e-...b-77216ebe1f17
It says broadly exactly what I have said, but in a shall we say, more succinct way. The outcome is the same, the CDDC will make a ruling which will have a profound effect on the company.
If the CDDC determine the company to be insolvent, then that's that. If the CDDC determines the company to be solvent and have liquidity, the hedge funds will kick up a stink at the creditor meetings at the end of the month.
Either way, and I'm in the camp that surely something can be done somewhere to rescue the company, it doesn't look great for Thomas Cook's future when it appears the bondholders and the hedge funds have seemingly made their minds up.
Filing for bankruptcy protection is by no means a standard part of proceedings. The whole purpose of the filing in the US courts is to stop Thomas Cook's creditors over there from grounding its planes or turning its paying customers away from hotels that haven't been paid. It also stops the bondholders from calling in their positions.
It is only done by a company that is in not only dire straits, but simply does not have the cash on hand right at that moment of filing. It buys Thomas Cook a few days of continuing liquidity at best, but should such a filing be on the cards in Europe, its straight to the administrators without passing go or collecting 200.
It is only done by a company that is in not only dire straits, but simply does not have the cash on hand right at that moment of filing. It buys Thomas Cook a few days of continuing liquidity at best, but should such a filing be on the cards in Europe, its straight to the administrators without passing go or collecting 200.
All Chapter 15 does is say that this company is being restructured under different law in a different country and it protects Thomas cook from legal action in the US, saying all US investors have to take legal action in the UK. It defines the jurisdiction applicable to the restructuring. It’s got nothing to do with people being turned away at check in.
https://www.uscourts.gov/services-fo...kruptcy-basics