Thomas Cook-2
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EGGW
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
USERNAME_
The TUI group is one company also being put forward as one of the interested parties.
I would not put it that Transit is up for sale, but it has had some expressions of interest.
I would not put it that Transit is up for sale, but it has had some expressions of interest.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At the bar
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll eat my hat if TUI went in for them considering the recent reductions in the Nordics and 3rd party flying they employ in the UK. Not to mention their entirely Boeing fleet....
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Behind a desk, dreaming of the sky
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm pretty sure those with the Sunshine tail, would love the challenge, they already kicked TCX down to 3rd in the Atol's and on course in the next few years to top TUI. On that basis (by the time the propsed merger goes through), they'd need the combined strength to compete
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Manchester
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can anyone concur that TCK Premium is any good for LGW-CPT ? I have seen a review that dinner is a cold sandwich in Premium!
Next March 2020 they have o/w seat for £450 (night flight) yes, a great price with 30 kgs of bags.
seems row 7 back row of cabin - I gather full recline - a good seat
Next March 2020 they have o/w seat for £450 (night flight) yes, a great price with 30 kgs of bags.
seems row 7 back row of cabin - I gather full recline - a good seat
The return was overnight at 22:00. There was a cold sandwich served after take off, and a hot breakfast 1.5 hours out of MAN. We'd had a full meal at JFK, so it was perfect for us.
I suspect that the UK CMA would look upon a merger of TUI and TC in a similar vein as the way they did when squashing the ASDA / Sainsburys merger; and I think for same reasons they'd be quite right to do so.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However would Lufthansa be barred from buying TC? In Germany that would lead to LH having too great a share of that domestic market, but it doesn't appear to have stopped them gobbling up the competition so far.
I suspect that the UK CMA would look upon a merger of TUI and TC in a similar vein as the way they did when squashing the ASDA / Sainsburys merger; and I think for same reasons they'd be quite right to do so.
I suspect that the UK CMA would look upon a merger of TUI and TC in a similar vein as the way they did when squashing the ASDA / Sainsburys merger; and I think for same reasons they'd be quite right to do so.
Bmi / BA went through because everyone understood Bmi was losing lots of money every year and Lufthansa would subside Bmi no more. Virgin's bid for Bmi was not taken seriously as a viable long-term business plan (or they didn't offer Lufthansa enough money) so it was either a BA takeover or Bmi closing
Is Thomas Cook (either the airline or the travel agency) at risk of closure in the next 6 months ?
Is Thomas Cook (either the airline or the travel agency) at risk of closure in the next 6 months ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 5th May 2019 at 15:15.
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Imho a merger of TUI AND TCX flying operations would easily pass the regulatory agencies in the UK . Caveat the issues would likely be more about remaining high street shops - Here there would be issues to contend with due to dominance in that ever declining market place .
These companies are far from monopolies and there are mountain ranges of competition out there today, however much now resides in the ethereal domain of the internet, the consolidators and those flexible fares operators peddling “custom” built packages; Some even offering taxi or car hire transfers ( at less than competitive rates when looked at in more detail !)
Still it gives the millennials something to do calculating true cost viz value quotient I suppose !
That being said Thomas Cook looks to be getting some finance and bonds elsewhere right now.
These companies are far from monopolies and there are mountain ranges of competition out there today, however much now resides in the ethereal domain of the internet, the consolidators and those flexible fares operators peddling “custom” built packages; Some even offering taxi or car hire transfers ( at less than competitive rates when looked at in more detail !)
Still it gives the millennials something to do calculating true cost viz value quotient I suppose !
That being said Thomas Cook looks to be getting some finance and bonds elsewhere right now.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hemel Hempstead
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure how a merger of Thomas Cook Airlines and TUI Airways would have relevance on high street shops. It would only become relevant if there was a merger of the tour operation, which looks highly unlikely.
Thomas Cook is likely to become a specialist hotel operator (Casa Cook etc), with its own tour operation. Fosun is said to be interested in buying this - they already own Club Med who operated on a similar model. It isn't dependant on an airline for its tour operation, and neither would Thomas Cook.
Thomas Cook is likely to become a specialist hotel operator (Casa Cook etc), with its own tour operation. Fosun is said to be interested in buying this - they already own Club Med who operated on a similar model. It isn't dependant on an airline for its tour operation, and neither would Thomas Cook.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In a house
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real problem is the fleet.
Condor have a fleet of 20+ year old A320, B757-300 and B767-300 which will need replacing soon.
Thomas Cook UK and Scandinavia have a slightly more modern fleet of 15 year old A320 and A330, and younger A321ceo.
Any new owner will be investing in an airline group where significant capital costs of fleet replacement will be required in the fairly near future.
Lufthansa may be interested in purchasing Condor and running it alongside Eurowings with a more modern A320/A330 fleet mix. But the existing Condor fleet will not bring any efficiencies. Apart from a few airport slots at FRA and MUC, there seems little benefit from what could be achieved by simply internally growing Eurowings.
Virgin may be interested in some of the A330 long-haul leisure routes, but the short-haul fleet is less appealing. The market is now dominated by easyJet and Ryanair who have their own order books of next generation Neo and Max aircraft, so little need for a non-standard A321ceo fleet. Again there is a slot holding at LGW and MAN, but nothing worth the big price tag of buying a whole airline.
So the other alternative is an investment group such as Indigo Partners. These companies are purely looking for a short term return on investment. I'm not sure they would see value in purchasing an aged fleet requiring a large future investment in fleet renewal. Particularly, when they will have no reliable income stream once the tour operator is divested from the airline.
Condor have a fleet of 20+ year old A320, B757-300 and B767-300 which will need replacing soon.
Thomas Cook UK and Scandinavia have a slightly more modern fleet of 15 year old A320 and A330, and younger A321ceo.
Any new owner will be investing in an airline group where significant capital costs of fleet replacement will be required in the fairly near future.
Lufthansa may be interested in purchasing Condor and running it alongside Eurowings with a more modern A320/A330 fleet mix. But the existing Condor fleet will not bring any efficiencies. Apart from a few airport slots at FRA and MUC, there seems little benefit from what could be achieved by simply internally growing Eurowings.
Virgin may be interested in some of the A330 long-haul leisure routes, but the short-haul fleet is less appealing. The market is now dominated by easyJet and Ryanair who have their own order books of next generation Neo and Max aircraft, so little need for a non-standard A321ceo fleet. Again there is a slot holding at LGW and MAN, but nothing worth the big price tag of buying a whole airline.
So the other alternative is an investment group such as Indigo Partners. These companies are purely looking for a short term return on investment. I'm not sure they would see value in purchasing an aged fleet requiring a large future investment in fleet renewal. Particularly, when they will have no reliable income stream once the tour operator is divested from the airline.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The paragraph concerning Indigo Partners themselves is hardly the case.
Indigo are not `flippers` it would appear witness their investment in Wizz Air & Frontier amongst others.
TCX or any airline investment come to that could become a recipient operator of part of the 430 Airbus MoU that Indigo Partners obtained.
Indigo are not `flippers` it would appear witness their investment in Wizz Air & Frontier amongst others.
TCX or any airline investment come to that could become a recipient operator of part of the 430 Airbus MoU that Indigo Partners obtained.
A bit late... but we recently did Premium on MAN-JFK return. Very reasonable and perfectly comfortable for 7 hours.
The return was overnight at 22:00. There was a cold sandwich served after take off, and a hot breakfast 1.5 hours out of MAN. We'd had a full meal at JFK, so it was perfect for us.
The return was overnight at 22:00. There was a cold sandwich served after take off, and a hot breakfast 1.5 hours out of MAN. We'd had a full meal at JFK, so it was perfect for us.
Lufty may still want Condor for the name - The Germans like it, it is a strong brand in Germany, and LH had it once - maybe LH do buy Condor, and then rename Eurowings to Condor ?
Stranger things have happened
Stranger things have happened
In a leisure market where which carrier you fly on still carries some weight, renaming Eurowings as Condor may be a very smart move.
The cost of acquiring rights to the Condor name may be modest. The cost of rebranding Eurowings to Condor and communicating that message across Europe will be high. The Germanwings brand was replaced by Eurowings partly to allow for neutral brand expansion (and yes, also to cut staff salaries)
There would need to be a very compelling reason for rebranding Eurowings to Condor to outweigh the costs involved
There would need to be a very compelling reason for rebranding Eurowings to Condor to outweigh the costs involved