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Thomas Cook-2

Old 23rd Sep 2019, 14:35
  #1341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manchester
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Their annual accounts for last year show around 170 million

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...ounts_2018.pdf
PhoenixDaCat is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2019, 14:35
  #1342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cambs
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Sad to hear the news this morning. Anyone know what airlines are going to operate rescue flights? There are already several operating under the Titan callsign.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 15:02
  #1343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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is the trust basically were the ATOL money is held or do that subsidise this?
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 15:26
  #1344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Originally Posted by Thaihawk View Post
Another sad day in British commercial aviation, I dearly hope that all of you at Thomas Cook Airlines are soon flying and working again with new employers.
You've summed it up Thaihawk. The industry is great fun ... when going well ... but is so very unforgiving when it all heads South, for whatever reason. Good luck to all. A woefully inadequate sentiment I'm afraid..... H 'n' H
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 15:45
  #1345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Wilmslow
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Hrg

Originally Posted by azz767 View Post
Quick question. My folks are currently in HRG and due to fly back on Saturday. As I understand it the route needed a sharkleted A321 for TCX to operate it.
Can HRG take widebodies? I've tried googling to no avail and all scheduled ops are narrow body so I'm trying to plan in advance if they will need to book themselves.
As I understand it a standard A321 couldn't do the journey in a dense config so a titan operated Avion frame wouldn't do the flight similarly any 738 used for repatriation also couldn't do the flight non stop. I'm aware titan have 757's that could do the journey but as I understand it they are tied up with other work currently.
Sorry for the many questions, i'm just trying to provide them with as much comfort as possible and with the specks of knowledge I have regarding the HRG and the airlines/aircraft being used for repatriation I've got as far as this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Yes..anything up to B747
Wimboy is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2019, 15:49
  #1346 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wolverhampton
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An aside

An aside - in the midst of this nightmare scenario for everyone concerned it was interesting nevertheless to see on BBC News on t'internet a picture of 2 ex-MON 321s G-ZBAE, now G-TCVB and G-ZBAO now G-TCVD still in their basic MON scheme + TC 'Heart' tail and quarantined at MAN.
They never got to the paint shop proper. I hope their next Owners /Leasers are kinder to them.
sixchannel is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2019, 15:58
  #1347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by azz767 View Post
Quick question. My folks are currently in HRG and due to fly back on Saturday. As I understand it the route needed a sharkleted A321 for TCX to operate it.
Can HRG take widebodies? I've tried googling to no avail and all scheduled ops are narrow body so I'm trying to plan in advance if they will need to book themselves.
As I understand it a standard A321 couldn't do the journey in a dense config so a titan operated Avion frame wouldn't do the flight similarly any 738 used for repatriation also couldn't do the flight non stop. I'm aware titan have 757's that could do the journey but as I understand it they are tied up with other work currently.
Sorry for the many questions, i'm just trying to provide them with as much comfort as possible and with the specks of knowledge I have regarding the HRG and the airlines/aircraft being used for repatriation I've got as far as this.
Any help would be appreciated.
It will be a plane with engines and will get your folks home safely! What more do you need to know?
stewyb is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:03
  #1348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 110
I have been looking at the CAA site on repatriation flights.

https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/custome...y-destination/

In most cases you can see the operating airline, but a couple of the flights still have MT codes. For instance the PUJ repatriation today is still listed as MT2629. Is this a typo or is it one of the leased TC aircraft being used to mop stuff up, e.g. AirTanker?
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:14
  #1349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
racedo,

"Response is correct without any further information.

A company going into Administration in UK ceases to trade immediately. The law is however different in pretty much all other countries..."


There is a difference between going into Administration and going into Liquidation.

My understanding is that TC has gone into liquidation.
Ultimately depends on the financial situation of the company. PLC may have gone into liquidation but subsidary company may have gone into administration while another subsidary company will continue to trade. There is no hard and fast rule on this as every single case will be different, which is why specialists charge the earth for doing it.

UK law does not apply in Germany or elsewhere which is why some TC owned companys there may continue trading but they will have no parent intercompany guarantees to rely on which is when a bank will get nervous.

Overall duty of Liquidator / Administrator is to get maximum for the companys assets to satisfy the secured creditors, the unsecured creditors (airports, handling companys, fuel suppliers, etc etc) are unsecured and will be lucky to get 1p in the pound in debt repayments.

In many cases the unsecured suppliers will end up following the path of their Debtor as few companies will be able to withstand the cash loss of not getting paid. Hence if working for one of TC suppliers best to start looking now rather than in a week.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:23
  #1350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
I don't think it is not so much about being clever, but about one's legal position. Because of the problems TC was facing, Condor most likely terminated the profit transfer agreement a while ago with cause as TC was no longer in a position to honour its part of the agreement.
Profit transfer is irrelevant, it is the cash which is key here. A subsidary can refuse to transfer the cash / delay or do everything it can to ensure it is kept within its business. In doing this of course they are breaching ownership rules but when it comes to this it really is about survival. Holding 1 million in cash may mean the difference in you being able to open the doors on a monday and not. If company goes bust at the weekend the cash stays in subsidaries account and while still may owe it you can take a lot longer to pay while surviving. Basically if making money in all likelihood someone will buy it quickly.

The time Lehman Brothers went bust the corporate treasury team were sucking in all the money from every country in the days before it happened.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:30
  #1351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Abbotsinch,Scotland
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Originally Posted by Sanger View Post
Thanks guys, I didn't think the CAA was using HiFly?
Hi-Fly op ACE-GLA later today !
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:35
  #1352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by PhoenixDaCat View Post
Their annual accounts for last year show around 170 million

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...ounts_2018.pdf
They really not worth the paper they written on. When a company does them and the auditors provide an audit opinion, it is based on the company contuining as a "going concern", i.e. it will continue to trade for the foreseeable future. This allows banks / suppliers etc to continue to trade with them.

As soon as a supplier believes their customer will not trade into the future, then no credit is available and it will seek to recover all money immediately and any discounts they enjoyed as a major customer cease to exist.............. full price only.

Guess the public message people hear is "Suppliers to Woolworths are unable to obtain credit insurance", hence nobody will supply anything unless they are paid in advance and as was the case with a number of Airlines a couple of years ago the Credit Card companies refused to pay across any money received because of potential claims.

It is a horrible messy business for all concerned and have seen a few.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:35
  #1353 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Cambs
Posts: 2
What airlines are currently scheduled to operate rescue flights?
silas1231 is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:41
  #1354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by Hot 'n' High View Post
You've summed it up Thaihawk. The industry is great fun ... when going well ... but is so very unforgiving when it all heads South, for whatever reason. Good luck to all. A woefully inadequate sentiment I'm afraid..... H 'n' H
True sentiments.

A US buddy has been through 5 Chapter 11's within Airline Industry, hence his view is screw every penny out of them because he knows they will do it to him. The first time he lost 15 yrs of pension payments, seniority etc. He has lost little since as keeps everything separate. To be fair he is on wife number 3 and privately said not sure what was painful the Chapter 11's or the divorces.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 16:50
  #1355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by pholling View Post
I have been looking at the CAA site on repatriation flights.

https://thomascook.caa.co.uk/custome...y-destination/

In most cases you can see the operating airline, but a couple of the flights still have MT codes. For instance the PUJ repatriation today is still listed as MT2629. Is this a typo or is it one of the leased TC aircraft being used to mop stuff up, e.g. AirTanker?
FR24 shows ZT2629 operated by a A343 (A340-300?). Can't see anything positioning either to PUJ or as 343 that fits bill.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 17:04
  #1356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by Airbanda View Post
FR24 shows ZT2629 operated by a A343 (A340-300?). Can't see anything positioning either to PUJ or as 343 that fits bill.
Plus Ultra A340 EC-MQM arrived into PUJ 10 hours ago according to Flight Radar as ZT1461P
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 17:06
  #1357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Profit transfer is irrelevant, it is the cash which is key here. A subsidary can refuse to transfer the cash / delay or do everything it can to ensure it is kept within its business. In doing this of course they are breaching ownership rules but when it comes to this it really is about survival. Holding 1 million in cash may mean the difference in you being able to open the doors on a monday and not. If company goes bust at the weekend the cash stays in subsidaries account and while still may owe it you can take a lot longer to pay while surviving. Basically if making money in all likelihood someone will buy it quickly.
They are different legal entities, so any cash or profit transfer must have been based on contractual agreements to that effect - which in all likelihood Condor had cause to terminate when TC was about to go under (as TC was no longer in a position to honour its part of the agreement).

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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 17:32
  #1358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Probably missed the reasons..however..could the TC aircraft and yes..even crews(well paid of course) be used for this airlift?

could have saved an awful lot of sub charter money and kept business in the UK?

just a thought.
highwideandugly is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2019, 17:38
  #1359 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Manchester, UK
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Originally Posted by highwideandugly View Post
Probably missed the reasons..however..could the TC aircraft and yes..even crews(well paid of course) be used for this airlift?

could have saved an awful lot of sub charter money and kept business in the UK?

just a thought.
The simple answer is no. Once TC entered liquidation their Operating License and AOC were immediately suspended or revoked. This mean there is no legal basis for the aircraft to operate. Moving aircraft onto another airlines AOC is not instantaneous and all crew would have to be trained on the different operations.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 17:40
  #1360 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Originally Posted by highwideandugly View Post
Probably missed the reasons..however..could the TC aircraft and yes..even crews(well paid of course) be used for this airlift?

could have saved an awful lot of sub charter money and kept business in the UK?

just a thought.
I dont think aircraft can move now until airport fees are paid for a start. I may be wrong and someone can correct me but i think a number of TCX Cabin crew are working on the Avion / Smartlynx under the ZT code.
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