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Thomas Cook-2

Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:08
  #781 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dc9-32 View Post
Damp lease I believe. Smartlynx FD and TCX cabin.
If so then I believe it would be under the AOC of Smartlynx. However, the cabin crew would probably refuse as TC would not longer pay them. I don't know the legality of Smartlynx temporarily employing them in this case.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:10
  #782 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mufc4evr View Post
Hi Guys

i have friends due to return from US in the next few days on TCX, if they go under do the CAA have to rebook their flights for them? they are only on a flight-only deal

thanks
Depends if they booked through a third party who could have booked it with an ATOL. If they have, then the CAA will step in, otherwise there is no guarantee.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:16
  #783 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sure Smartlynx have their own cabin crew.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:22
  #784 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dc9-32 View Post
I'm sure Smartlynx have their own cabin crew.
They do but the majority of TCX flights by Smartlynx/Avion use TC crew
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:25
  #785 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pholling View Post
I don't know the legality of Smartlynx temporarily employing them in this case.
Very difficult to arrange with no notice unless the crew and airline shared a nationality.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:33
  #786 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by diffident View Post
The sad fact is the last line of this letter to the Stock Exchange this morning..... Shareholders' value will be significantly diluted. If I was a shareholder, I'd be opposing that.
ĎSignificantly dilutedí is probably a better bet than totally worthless if they donít vote for it. What are the shareholders hoping for if they vote against? It is pretty much a guarantee of 0 return on their investment. ĎThe value of shares may go down as well as up.í Seems the banks either donít read or donít like the small print.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:34
  #787 (permalink)  
 
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Avion Express isn't paying salaries (possibly lacking payments from TC?)...
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 16:37
  #788 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Big Tudor View Post


ĎSignificantly dilutedí is probably a better bet than totally worthless if they donít vote for it. What are the shareholders hoping for if they vote against? It is pretty much a guarantee of 0 return on their investment. ĎThe value of shares may go down as well as up.í Seems the banks either donít read or donít like the small print.
It's a case of ... "cut your losses at 36p per share now" or face a return of 0p per share in a few days. As I've said before in this thread, its a brutal business.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 17:18
  #789 (permalink)  
 
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Great Dane E195, ASL Airlines France 737, Omni Air 767 and an Air Transat A310 also pencilled in for long stays at LGW.

If itís for what we think it is, seems a bit overkill.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 17:22
  #790 (permalink)  
MDS
 
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Originally Posted by diffident View Post
It's a case of ... "cut your losses at 36p per share now" or face a return of 0p per share in a few days. As I've said before in this thread, its a brutal business.
It was 36p in 2018.

It's just over 3 pence now!

99% of their value has been lost in the past 10 years.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 17:24
  #791 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by safelife View Post
Avion Express isn't paying salaries (possibly lacking payments from TC?)...
Thatís a heck of a claim to make with no corroborating evidence!
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 18:19
  #792 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled View Post
Great Dane E195, ASL Airlines France 737, Omni Air 767 and an Air Transat A310 also pencilled in for long stays at LGW.

If itís for what we think it is, seems a bit overkill.
any idea when this is for ?

many thanks jon
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 18:21
  #793 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nowhereasfiled View Post
Great Dane E195, ASL Airlines France 737, Omni Air 767 and an Air Transat A310 also pencilled in for long stays at LGW.

If itís for what we think it is, seems a bit overkill.
Not really. In any case should the worst happen itís likely some pax heading to BHX, STN etc would get funnelled through LGW & MAN and flights merged as happened with Monarch. So the volume of aircraft needed and their size would look higher than might be expected, whereas other bases might have nothing.
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 18:48
  #794 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pholling View Post
If so then I believe it would be under the AOC of Smartlynx. However, the cabin crew would probably refuse as TC would not longer pay them. I don't know the legality of Smartlynx temporarily employing them in this case.
I know when Monarch went they were leasing SmartLynx A320 YL-LCP at the time, and this aircraft did operate some of the repatriation flights. Although that might have been their own crew
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 19:06
  #795 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by diffident View Post
To further add to Albert Hall 's well made points there Doc Q , even if the Government wanted to (and they don't), European Union state aid rules won't allow it. In an effort to stop the usual "yeh, buts" that I normally get when discussing businesses going bust and European state aid rules, the biggest question is - what about the banks?

State aid rules state explicitly: "A government can own a company under state aid rules but it is not allowed to keep it going if it would otherwise fail." In other words, the Government can't just go around buying up bankrupt businesses in the national interest. Thomas Cook has been in trouble for some time, some say possibly as far back as the MyTravel tie-up.

The banks were bailed out because the business models were proven solid (the banks were expected to rapidly return to profitability - and did), but had become under substantial strain due to market volatility. The same banks are back to returning billions in profit for shareholders today with little in the way of change regarding how banks operate, other than the rules surrounding protecting retail banking from investment banking.

Thomas Cook is not in trouble because of external forces. It is about to become the victim of poor business management.
Apologies diffident, but this sounds nonsense (comment in bold). The banks are not comparable to airlines. The government cannot allow them to fail, they provide state guarantees which is necessary to give people confidence to save and making their savings secure etc etc. The point is highly irrelevant. And suggestions on here that £200M is not much money is nonsense. This is exactly like Monarch. Very sad news, but the cat is out of the bag, at a time when they need cashflow and liquidity, clients will avoid booking or spending with them.

If you were investing into Thomas Cook you'd have to ask where do they add value and what's their point of difference?? As far as I can see Jet2 has wiped their eye and they no longer seem relevant.

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Old 20th Sep 2019, 19:50
  #796 (permalink)  
 
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clients will avoid booking or spending with them.
and credit card companies will delay/withhold their funds?
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 20:46
  #797 (permalink)  
 
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TC asks UK Govt for a bailout
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49761464
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 21:00
  #798 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
TC asks UK Govt for a bailout
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49761464


I think a poster Doc Q who was dismissed as being out of touch with reality suggested this would end in a government bail out perhaps he wasn’t quite so deluded ?

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Old 20th Sep 2019, 21:16
  #799 (permalink)  
 
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I have three questions which I hope someone can help with (if you don't know, please don't guess)

What has caused TC to need cash by this weekend (22 September), instead of by the CAA ATOL deadline of 1st October ?
What date are the chartered aircraft from these airlines, which visit Gatwick rarely, due to start arriving ?
Can the start date of a repatriation programme be brought forward reasonably effectively (cost being a lesser concern than ensuring aircraft/crew availability) ?
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Old 20th Sep 2019, 21:19
  #800 (permalink)  
 
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Asking the government now seems a seriously last ditch desperate attempt and their only hope. I donít think for one second the government would come to the rescue. TC is beyond help now and drowning in debt, it would be a waste of money sad to say.
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