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Heathrow-2

Old 6th Jul 2020, 09:10
  #1301 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Playamar2 View Post
The airlines will have decided how many flights they wish to operate between now and the end of September. Flights to the Americas, Asia & Africa are vastly reduced due to closed borders etc, I'm sure Heathrow has done its homework allowing for a modest increase every month, and will be quite prepared to turn away ad-hoc freight flights if the need arises. I expect the Chinese cargo flights will cease soon, as will BA & VS cargo to the USA.
Head for Points estimated that BA will operated less than 50% of their Schedule in August. I don't think single runway will be too much of an issue. It seems sensible to me to use this time to do works.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 11:34
  #1302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sewushr View Post
I see there is a NOTAM for 09R/27L to be closed for works between 13th July and 30th September. Frankly I find this a rather strange decision, considering that is the period that offers the best hope for a 'late summer' recovery of traffic. Expect Gatwick-like queues at the holding point and lots of pretty patterns on FR24 as inbound aircraft complete multiple circuits in the hold!

I understand the financial benefit of completing the work during the day and in as short a timeframe as possible, but it hardly sends the right message to airlines and passengers if it imposes delays and limits the availability of slots during the recovery phase.
I am sure a lot of thought will have gone into arriving at this decision. Discussions and surveys to understand the condition of the runway, alternative approaches to solving the problem in the future and the "do nothing" option. Clearly the decision reached is that the work needs to be undertaken and now is likely to have the least impact.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 13:40
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Will be quite a pain point departing 09L though as the holding points were never intended to have the space for efficient queue management as it was never allowed to be a departure runway in normal operations.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 21:19
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I think it's important to remember that safety sometimes is more of a priority than commercial. Runway 09R/27L clearly needs some significant repairs to maintain a safe surface for aircraft to operate safely. What better time to do it. I'm sure as others have said the airport has planned this very carefully and discussed with all relevant people before going ahead.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 23:41
  #1305 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
Will be quite a pain point departing 09L though as the holding points were never intended to have the space for efficient queue management as it was never allowed to be a departure runway in normal operations.
I suppose the airport will argue in mitigation, and with some justification, that the planned departure rate from a single runway used in mixed-mode will be significantly less than the nominal capacity of the same runway used for departures only in segregated mode, with correspondingly less pressure on the access taxiways and holding points.

Achieving 600 movements per day (i.e. 300 departures rather than the usual 600) using the northern runway, even on easterlies, ought not to present too much of a problem.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 23:41
  #1306 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sewushr View Post
I see there is a NOTAM for 09R/27L to be closed for works between 13th July and 30th September.
You can of course get far more work done with a complete closure than with overnight works, where so much of the limited time is spend mobilising and shutting down each time anyway. This is always how such closures are presented.

However, experience with both road and railway comparable shutdowns, with total closures, has been that whereas the impression is given is that it is some all hands to the pump, maximum resources, 24x7 working, and when such closures first came along years ago that was indeed how it was done, that story is just for the press, and nowadays such tasks get done single weekday daytime shift with a small force of labour and plant from the bottom bidder, wholly as a money-saving exercise.
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Old 7th Jul 2020, 18:52
  #1307 (permalink)  
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What a great pity that previous govts did not build LHR 3 thirty years ago, as they should have done, as they would almost obviate the problem of closing 09R/27L for proper repairs. But now? LHR 3 is never going to be built. Best of British!

Last edited by PAXboy; 8th Jul 2020 at 00:20.
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Old 8th Jul 2020, 16:28
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Originally Posted by PAXboy View Post
What a great pity that previous govts did not build LHR 3 thirty years ago, as they should have done, as they would almost obviate the problem of closing 09R/27L for proper repairs. But now? LHR 3 is never going to be built. Best of British!
they should have built a new airport in the '60's and closed LHR then
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Old 8th Jul 2020, 19:37
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
they should have built a new airport in the '60's and closed LHR then
Ah yes, just like Montreal did in the 1970s. That was a success, wasn't it ?
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Old 9th Jul 2020, 08:40
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As far as I can tell, the NOTAM advising of the closure of 09R/27L between 13th July and 30th September has been withdrawn.

There is now only mention of certain runway entry/exit points being unavailable during that period.

Change of mind by HAL?
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Old 9th Jul 2020, 16:40
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Ah yes, just like Montreal did in the 1970s. That was a success, wasn't it ?
DFW, CDG, Changi, Denver, Oslo, Hong Kong etc etc - all newer airports than LHR and built with space to grow - the horrors are historic places like LHR, LAX, JFK, MIA
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Old 9th Jul 2020, 17:18
  #1312 (permalink)  
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Just as well construction of Boris Island hadn't started when the pandemic hit.
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Old 9th Jul 2020, 18:23
  #1313 (permalink)  
 
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I think with the Covid air corridors relaxing a lot of the quarantine restrictions the daily movements will increase quicker than first thought therefore needing dual runway ops for some of the time. I suspect the southern runway works plan will be adjusted accordingly..
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Old 10th Jul 2020, 00:40
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
DFW, CDG, Changi, Denver, Oslo, Hong Kong etc etc - all newer airports than LHR and built with space to grow - the horrors are historic places like LHR, LAX, JFK, MIA
CDG is a mess by any reasonable measure. It’s wonderfully French.....but just a nightmare for connecting. London did have an (almost) greenfield new airport which opened in 1991, it was the bright new future once. It’s not that BAA didn’t actually try and do better than LHR, they really did, it was that we (the market) looked and went “Nahhh”. So we all went back to Dorval, er Heathrow I mean.
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Old 10th Jul 2020, 07:17
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
DFW, CDG, Changi, Denver, Oslo, Hong Kong etc etc - all newer airports than LHR and built with space to grow - the horrors are historic places like LHR, LAX, JFK, MIA
Dallas has been characterised by Love Field not only remaining open but carriers bursting to get in there and circumvent any restrictions. I think it has more passengers now than when DFW opened.

CDG has not supplanted Orly at all, and the majority of French short haul ops still go from there. It's rendered it a difficult place for connections.

Changi and Hong Kong both seem to be closer to the city than even Heathrow is.

Fundamentally, neither airlines nor passengers like airports that are far out. Commercially they don't work well, and notwithstanding older terminals the paying customers value convenience over some pangalactic architect's ego trip.
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Old 10th Jul 2020, 14:12
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Dallas has been characterised by Love Field not only remaining open but carriers bursting to get in there and circumvent any restrictions. I think it has more passengers now than when DFW opened.

CDG has not supplanted Orly at all, and the majority of French short haul ops still go from there. It's rendered it a difficult place for connections.

Changi and Hong Kong both seem to be closer to the city than even Heathrow is.

Fundamentally, neither airlines nor passengers like airports that are far out. Commercially they don't work well, and notwithstanding older terminals the paying customers value convenience over some pangalactic architect's ego trip.
This true - but voters hate close in airports and they are a real pain to modify - Schipol works because its as far from the centre of Amsterdam and the Hague as it can be for example

As for the other s CDG - 76 million passengers Orly 31 million; DFW 75 million pax Love Field 16.7 million
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 09:59
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Local residents have been informed that tha Southern runway will be closed from now to possibly 2nd August. Thereafter, 2nd phase closed from 7pm to 7am each night for additional work, and upgrades to approx October. Runway alteration will occur during this time. Info from HAL to residents.
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 17:40
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June down 95.2%

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