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Heathrow-2

Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:00
  #1281 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
Any news on when Heathrow will go back to two runway ops? The NOTAM for single runway ops expires at 2359 on Tuesday and whilst there's been a trickle of new passenger services, daily movements are still below 300.
Pre-COVID, Gatwick was averaging around 750 movements per day on its single runway, so I think there's a long way to go before Heathrow needs to reinstate dual-runway operations.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 13:48
  #1282 (permalink)  
c52
 
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Is there (these days) any possible good reason for aircraft to arrive in the Heathrow area so long before 06:00 that they need to hold? Today there was an AA 777 holding at 05:30, joined by two BA examples that took a long route to finals and a QR A350 that did one quick circuit. It must cost the airlines money to keep planes and crew in the air for an extra 30 minutes, and I cannot believe it's beyond the competence of an airline operations dept or pilot to arrive within an airport's opening hours.

I see no option but to assume it's a deliberate choice by someone. But why?

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Old 29th Jun 2020, 14:19
  #1283 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by c52 View Post
Is there (these days) any possible good reason for aircraft to arrive in the Heathrow area so long before 06:00 that they need to hold? Today there was an AA 777 holding at 05:30, joined by two BA examples that took a long route to finals and a QR A350 that did one quick circuit. It must cost the airlines money to keep planes and crew in the air for an extra 30 minutes, and I cannot believe it's beyond the competence of an airline operations dept or pilot to arrive within an airport's opening hours.

I see no option but to assume it's a deliberate choice by someone. But why?
More than likely they just had a good routing or favourable conditions and arrived early.
If you drive non stop from Scotland to London it would be hard to arrive bang on time .
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 14:37
  #1284 (permalink)  
 
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It depends on the winds, in some months the jetstream tailwinds can be wild, the eastbound aircraft can arrive an hour early at destination. Pootling along with a slower airspeed just slows everyone else done which in busy congestedd airspace doesnít help. The other option of blocking a gate for an hour or sitting on a remote stand while staff wait around is also not ideal. They can come back on the speed once in controlled airspace beyond the oceanic area, but there are a whole load of variables. Itís genuinely not as simple as thereís a lot of other slots and airspace permissions to take into account as well as departing too late may mean the meal service is horribly out of sync with body clocks.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 15:21
  #1285 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by c52 View Post
Is there (these days) any possible good reason for aircraft to arrive in the Heathrow area so long before 06:00 that they need to hold? Today there was an AA 777 holding at 05:30, joined by two BA examples that took a long route to finals and a QR A350 that did one quick circuit. It must cost the airlines money to keep planes and crew in the air for an extra 30 minutes, and I cannot believe it's beyond the competence of an airline operations dept or pilot to arrive within an airport's opening hours.
It's not a case of "opening hours" (Heathrow gets arrivals from around 04:30 onwards daily), but there is a Night Quota governing arrivals between then and 06:00 and if your flight isn't on the list (or exempted) then the rule is that you don't get to land before 6.

That said, there have been plenty of instances of flights with an STA after 06:00 having been allowed to land early in recent years, so I don't know what determines the decision on an individual flight basis.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 20:56
  #1286 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Pre-COVID, Gatwick was averaging around 750 movements per day on its single runway, so I think there's a long way to go before Heathrow needs to reinstate dual-runway operations.
The NOTAM has been extended until 23:59 on the 19th July. As this date coincides with a fairly significant ramping up of BA operations, I'd image it will revert to two runways from the 20th.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 21:54
  #1287 (permalink)  
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I'm told that the criterion is when daily movements get to around 600, so a bit more than double the current volume. It will be interesting to see if that's achieved in the next 3 weeks.
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 09:45
  #1288 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
I'm told that the criterion is when daily movements get to around 600, so a bit more than double the current volume. It will be interesting to see if that's achieved in the next 3 weeks.
Still awaiting a decision on whether they are going to resurface the southern runway in which case it will be a couple of months.
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 10:26
  #1289 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by point5 View Post
Still awaiting a decision on whether they are going to resurface the southern runway in which case it will be a couple of months.
Why would resurfacing the runway mean delaying dual-runway operations ?

The runways have been resurfaced many times over the years - at night, in stages, and without disrupting daytime runway use.
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 13:41
  #1290 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Why would resurfacing the runway mean delaying dual-runway operations ?

The runways have been resurfaced many times over the years - at night, in stages, and without disrupting daytime runway use.
Because they are considering doing it all in 1 go rather than the usual overnight resurfacing. If they decide to do it we will be SRO until October. It should be confirmed during the next week.
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 16:08
  #1291 (permalink)  
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Doing it in one go would save a lot of money.
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 16:24
  #1292 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by point5 View Post
Because they are considering doing it all in 1 go rather than the usual overnight resurfacing.
OK, I take the point that it will be cheaper to pay the contractors daytime rates, rather than having them work at night.

If they decide to do it we will be SRO until October.
Do that imply that both runways will be resurfaced during that time ?

It should be confirmed during the next week.
Shame they didn't decide 2 months ago ...
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 17:25
  #1293 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
OK, I take the point that it will be cheaper to pay the contractors daytime rates, rather than having them work at night.



Do that imply that both runways will be resurfaced during that time ?



Shame they didn't decide 2 months ago ...

We have only been informed of the possibility of resurfacing the southern. I agree they shouldíve thought about this earlier. It couldíve been done and reopen by now if they were really on the ball.
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 18:54
  #1294 (permalink)  
 
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Personally, I don't think there is any way that Heathrow can continue with single runway operations until October. Traffic is starting to pick up, as has been commented on by others, and current slot projections suggest the airport will be handling more than 600 daily flights before the end of August. Of course the situation is still very fluid, and there is no guarantee that operators' current plans will come to fruition, but it would be a big gamble to commit to an extended period of single runway operations just as the recovery is gathering pace. No airport, even Heathrow, wants to find itself in a position where it is turning away traffic because it is unable to meet demand.

With British Airways consolidating all of their European operations at Heathrow until the end of the summer and several other carriers that normally operate to Gatwick securing Heathrow slots, I suspect assurances may have already been given to airlines that both runways will be available for the remainder of the summer season once traffic has reached a certain level.

I can understand why such an idea was under consideration when traffic collapsed in late March and early April, but I think that boat has already sailed.
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Old 4th Jul 2020, 22:06
  #1295 (permalink)  
 
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I've heard it's not total resurfacing of 09R/27L but strengthening some areas which needs deeper construction which can't be done during normal overnight closures hence possible total closure until October.. If traffic movements increase requiring dual runway operations then the works will be adjusted to accommodate.
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 03:19
  #1296 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Pre-COVID, Gatwick was averaging around 750 movements per day on its single runway, so I think there's a long way to go before Heathrow needs to reinstate dual-runway operations.
To be honest this isnít really a ringing endorsement - LGW in summer is a mess with delays; I canít help think what EZY think of it.
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 06:54
  #1297 (permalink)  
 
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Singly runway isn't about safety it's about saving money.
Out of 5000 staff nearly 1800 could be chopped
That's enormous.

A second runway needs fire, cover, ATC etc if they can get away with one runway like Manchester they will.

I predict some airports will close within 12 months if things don't pick up.

Many pax who are travelling now are simply using vouchers they were given to forestall refunds been given out.

The acid test will be quantifying what new money is coming in and whether people are travelling ?

Awful.

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Old 5th Jul 2020, 12:41
  #1298 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 View Post
To be honest this isnít really a ringing endorsement - LGW in summer is a mess with delays; I canít help think what EZY think of it.
To be fair itís EZY that create most of the mess at LGW in the middle of summer. I agree with your point though - 750 movements a day is 24/7 operation, taxying times often over half an hour and holding patterns almost all day. Operators at LHR will want that second runway open well before they reach 45% of normal capacity.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 05:17
  #1299 (permalink)  
 
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I see there is a NOTAM for 09R/27L to be closed for works between 13th July and 30th September. Frankly I find this a rather strange decision, considering that is the period that offers the best hope for a 'late summer' recovery of traffic. Expect Gatwick-like queues at the holding point and lots of pretty patterns on FR24 as inbound aircraft complete multiple circuits in the hold!

I understand the financial benefit of completing the work during the day and in as short a timeframe as possible, but it hardly sends the right message to airlines and passengers if it imposes delays and limits the availability of slots during the recovery phase.
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Old 6th Jul 2020, 07:33
  #1300 (permalink)  
 
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The airlines will have decided how many flights they wish to operate between now and the end of September. Flights to the Americas, Asia & Africa are vastly reduced due to closed borders etc, I'm sure Heathrow has done its homework allowing for a modest increase every month, and will be quite prepared to turn away ad-hoc freight flights if the need arises. I expect the Chinese cargo flights will cease soon, as will BA & VS cargo to the USA.
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