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Old 24th Apr 2018, 12:44
  #461 (permalink)  
 
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Why are these 14 domestic routes not up and running already?
Because slots are constrained as there has been no runway expansion, hence existing slots are used for routes with a better chance of making money. Marginal domestic routes like LPL/NQY/MME/IOM/JER/GCI etc would in all honesty need some form of subsidy or a change in the charging regime with a third runway. It's the latter HAL are talking about.

HAL make many promises, plans and financial commitments they cannot keep
Just for fun, give me your top 5 broken promises made by HAL/BAA, genuine question as you have been local for longer than me I think?

My favourite ever broken promise was "No jets ever at LCY," as for public policy, no Parliament is ever bound by it's predecessor.
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 16:22
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo View Post
Fair point, but when LGW changed their charging policy a while back, they killed flybeís routes to INV, GCI, JER, BHD and NQY overnight. EZY was the winner but business connectivity was lost as frequency was lost, NQY-LGW was reprieved only because HMG approved a sunsidy. Now that subsidy would generate a lot more inbound traffic if it was NQY-LHR instead, due to many more connections at Hounslow Intl.

Public and private sector are interconnected more than we admit. There would be no railway without subsidy yet we see the benefit in getting us from A to B.
Yes, public and private sector are intertwined, but when two central parts of LHR's case for expansion (regional connectivity, and no taxpayer cost) are so obviously undermined it casts further doubt on their remaining claims (some of which are misleading at best, dishonest at worst).
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 17:20
  #463 (permalink)  
 
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If they could get IAG to commit, legally, to serving 14 domestic routes for say 10 years people would listen

Otherwise it's smoke & mirrors
N
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 21:01
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo View Post
Because slots are constrained as there has been no runway expansion, hence existing slots are used for routes with a better chance of making money. Marginal domestic routes like LPL/NQY/MME/IOM/JER/GCI etc would in all honesty need some form of subsidy or a change in the charging regime with a third runway. It's the latter HAL are talking about.


Just for fun, give me your top 5 broken promises made by HAL/BAA, genuine question as you have been local for longer than me I think?

My favourite ever broken promise was "No jets ever at LCY," as for public policy, no Parliament is ever bound by it's predecessor.
If they are not profitable now, they certainly wonít be with the third runway and the costs for building it which will be passed on to airlines. Itís all smoke and mirrors.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 11:09
  #465 (permalink)  
 
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ATC were busy on Monday 30.4.18 between 1200 and 1400 hours there were six go-arounds due to the weather. I have seen the pattern on web tack, but unable to download the pattern of the movements/directions.
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Old 2nd May 2018, 12:46
  #466 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Trinity 09L View Post
ATC were busy on Monday 30.4.18 between 1200 and 1400 hours there were six go-arounds due to the weather. I have seen the pattern on web tack, but unable to download the pattern of the movements/directions.
Links: OS453, QR003, BA855, BA919, SK531, BA343
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Old 2nd May 2018, 20:06
  #467 (permalink)  
 
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DRUK
Many thanks, looks as though BA919 had the star performance.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 06:37
  #468 (permalink)  
 
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Latest alternative expansion plans from Arora ...

Arora Group
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Old 3rd May 2018, 07:44
  #469 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ETOPS View Post
Latest alternative expansion plans from Arora ...

Arora Group
I don't understand why this is in the news today, given that it was announced in July 2017 and reported widely in the media at the time:

Arora: What are we proposing?

BBC: 'Cheaper' Heathrow airport third runway plans proposed

As I posted as the time:

Much of the proposed savings would come, we're told, by scrapping most of the planned T6 satellites (and hence gates) and the proposed T2 expansion (ditto).

So R3 gets built, increasing passengers and movements by up to 50%, but with barely more gates than at present.

A perfect illustration of why airports don't tend to get designed by hotel developers.
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Old 3rd May 2018, 08:08
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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It is symptomatic of the shambolic nature of this process that parliament are apparently going to vote to approve a scheme where LHR have recently called out to the public for fresh ideas and the rival scheme is rehashing something from a year ago.

Whilst the political part of the process continues to go round in circles, the legal, financial and environmental impediments remain.
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Old 11th May 2018, 08:11
  #471 (permalink)  
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Western Rail Access Consultation starts today 11th May

Western Rail Link to Heathrow
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Old 11th May 2018, 11:10
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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Prophead
There speaks the voice of someone living in the home counties who has not had the delightful BA announcement that having travelled over half the planet that BA have cancelled the MAN shuttle due to none specific operational reasons, and that you will now be put on a coach to MAN, which will due to traffic take a further 4 hrs, and then have a further possible 2hr drive home due to hitting rush hour. This happened to me numerous times, and do not mention when, or if your bags will arrive. To be honest anybody who lives in the SE who comments on how we need to have extra capacity for regional conductivity is missing the point as far as LH travel is concerned from the regions. That ship has largely sailed for me and many others who now travel ME3 or Europe Hub. Our national carrier is not what it was, and LHR is not a good experience to transit, which is compounded with the cancellations already mentioned. Also I am not here to financially prop up mediocre service from BA / LHR with my, or my companies money. As for travelling to London I always take the train its easier from Yorkshire. Also I understand to a degree where you are coming from, having kept a London residence and indeed worked out of there for 20 + years it is easy to believe you are indeed the centre of things as far as UK is concerned. However having now moved full time out of the SE, and working out of northern UK and Munich, the issues of regional connectivity in particular with regards LH flights are very clear and I am a committed none user of both BA and LHR unless client is adamant. As for Brexit I personally made my choice and will have to live with consequences good or bad, but I do not believe an extra runway will help UK PLC one way or the other apart from throwing more money into London infrastructure projects (new road tunnel announced today for a further Billion I see) where the north can not even get new train carriges.

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Mr Mac
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Old 11th May 2018, 13:28
  #473 (permalink)  
 
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Our national carrier is not what it was
Agree entirely, it hasn't been our national carrier since 1987,some 31 years ago.
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Old 12th May 2018, 08:02
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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The amount of connections and access this could provide to the regionals means it's a win win for the whole of the UK.
Note the word "could" - call me cynical, but it's a big "if" as to whether these connections ever materialise. Given the amount of money involved it's a big gamble for the regions to support (not that I'm dumb enough to think that the money would leave the south east if it's not spent on LHR)
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Old 12th May 2018, 12:32
  #475 (permalink)  
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You could almost promise it by building the new runway just big enough for a Dash 8.
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Old 12th May 2018, 12:45
  #476 (permalink)  
 
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I am sure however that a new runway open for SH ops with an easy connection on LH destinations would create a market that would be quickly filled. Not only from the UK regions but also Europe. We would also likely see new routes to destinations that were not previously viable even for Heathrow.
Or easyJet move in and fly people on holiday to the same destinations...

Are the environmental issues really spurious - more flights means more noise, and it ain't cheap.

Talking about the differences in the level of regional infrastructure expenditure isn't just a "fan club" issue.
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Old 12th May 2018, 15:14
  #477 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
We would also likely see new routes to destinations that were not previously viable even for Heathrow.
I'm struggling to see how a route that's not viable (i.e. not enough demand to operate at a profit) becomes viable simply by building an additional runway at one end or another end of the route.
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Old 12th May 2018, 15:59
  #478 (permalink)  
 
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People hope the new runway will reduce the operating costs significantly...................... ho, ho ho
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Old 12th May 2018, 16:38
  #479 (permalink)  
 
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Prophead
Your location says Berkshire not LBA or Yorkshire hence my belief you live in the SE, unless you commute like I used to do. As for the use of a 3rd runway stopping the MAN bus service, dream on. It is BA who run the service and I have no doubt 3rd runway or not I would be on a bus if I returned to using BA and LHR. I would be back on that bus again within 6 months with the optional delv of my bags outbound, or inbound. Its funny I started to leave LHR and BA in around 2007 apart from the odd flight. Now despite numerous flights , gales , storms, volcanoes, Fog EK /SQ/LH have got me home, or outbound with my luggage at the same time, to the same place, a point that BA and LHR failed to do on numerous occasions hence my move. As for spending money at LHR I have to ask why. The place functions badly now so here is a radicle thought, cut the number of services but get it right for those that remain, and this applies to both BA and LHR and then rebuild your airline and airport rather than this dash for growth which is proving so trouble some.

Regards
Mr Mac
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Old 12th May 2018, 16:52
  #480 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Prophead View Post
The Manchester lot are behind Gatwick expansion so it's not about north/south. They see a hub at LHR as a threat to their spotting books.
The central rationale behind Propheahad's (obviously unresearched, unsupported and unsustainable) arguments is revealed...
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