Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Heathrow-2

Old 23rd Jan 2018, 18:43
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: SYD
Posts: 25
COBALT to launch daily LHR-LCA effective 27 March. Allocated T3 15:45/17:20.
OzzyOzBorn is offline  
Old 23rd Jan 2018, 19:08
  #222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 6,135
Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
Heathrow has to try to keep costs down, as its airlines are bitterly opposed to the cost of its proposals.
I'll bet they are, as a 50% increase in capacity would principally serve to draw in rivals - both EasyJet (especially) and Ryanair have said they would consider slots if newly available. This would be all well and good, provided that Heathrow, not the current airlines, had paid for it, but if the current operators are to be surcharged for years to benefit their rivals, that is unreasonable.


Given that Heathrow is regulated by the government, you can't be certain what they would cook up after plundering the current operators' pockets - some formula that says the current carriers only get 25% of the additional slots.
WHBM is online now  
Old 23rd Jan 2018, 19:24
  #223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 60
Posts: 454
I'm sure I read somewhere that the incumbent airlines would sue if they were surcharged versus new entrants!

IAG will bide their time and not sit back and gently waive EZY and RYR in.
Navpi is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2018, 19:15
  #224 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,781
Such are the joys of deregulation. The big boys can stand in the way of the new boys. Just like they did with Laker Skytrain and Virgin Atlantic.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2018, 22:31
  #225 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,047
Were Heathrow to expand, I'd be very surprised if either EZY or RYR had any real interest in operating from there.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 25th Jan 2018, 06:39
  #226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 60
Posts: 454
It would be interesting. The hike in landing fees will in some cases be double the start point of most of the EZY and RYR fares. Not sure this will put them off.
With a lower overall cost structure in other areas eg Asset costs, salaries etc and a much younger fleet i still think they they would wipe out some areas of IAG.
Probaby BA but maybe not EI.

The problem is that this might then impact the hub concept as BA tend to discount UK domestic fares but ramp up the long haul element.

There could be quite a ripple.in UK aviation.

Without a monopoly at Heathrow BA could find themselves in trouble but that then undermines the framework and hub concept that Rw3 Is supposed to solve as BA are the main provider.

Last edited by Navpi; 25th Jan 2018 at 06:50.
Navpi is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2018, 13:05
  #227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: solihull West Midlands
Posts: 967
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
Story in the Times that they're cutting 300 m off the length of proposed runway 3
Wish they would make up their mind and get on with it.

Separately sure I read somewhere that Cathay Pacific are placing A350s on two of their Heathrow 77W rotations this year.

Anyone able to firm this up and which two ?

Thanks.
nigel osborne is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2018, 13:48
  #228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK (reluctantly)
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Were Heathrow to expand, I'd be very surprised if either EZY or RYR had any real interest in operating from there.
EZY have already sad publicly that they'd operate from EGLL post-third runway
Trash 'n' Navs is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2018, 14:29
  #229 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,047
Yes, I know that's what they said, after all it didn't cost them anything to say it.

But when push comes to shove, I still don't think they're serious.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 26th Jan 2018, 06:44
  #230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Up in the clouds
Posts: 472
If EZY did start operations from LHR, i'd imagine there would be a lot of route cannibalisation with other LON airports. I could see business orientated routes leaving LGW/STN and moving to LHR, then leaving room in other airports for new destinations or increased frequency on the more popular leisure orientated route.

The airports fees would be the scary part, but there must be a premium they could exploit by going the LHR. If BA can get A320's in/out, surely EZY can
Plane.Silly is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2018, 07:48
  #231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 38
Posts: 6,168
If you ever wondered why “Your London Airport, Gatwick” ran such a visceral anti LHR in the recent review, losing a part of their biggest customer was a huge consideration.
Skipness One Echo is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2018, 11:09
  #232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 193
I tend to agree with Dave - without serious positive changes in airspace management and resultant declines in airborne holding, start delays etc, EZY or any other LOCO would face significant challenges to their high utilisation models as well as on time performance. It would be entertaining to listen in to RYR on Demand versus Capacity meetings though!
Porky Speedpig is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2018, 12:05
  #233 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,047
It's never been hard, at any stage of the debate, to work out why Gatwick want LGW to expand.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 27th Jan 2018, 02:00
  #234 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,781
When sitting in a stack for LHR, I always dream of a regulation that limits the stacks for reduced fuel (and subsequent pollution) as much as for time but, both for money. A fella can dream ...
PAXboy is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2018, 06:44
  #235 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,047
Do you have a preference for where you'd like to divert to?

Joking aside, a stack is just another word for a queue. Queing Theory 101 says that in order to sweat the maximum utilisation out of an asset with finite capacity, by far the easiest (though not the only) way is to get the customers to form an orderly queue.

HAL used to publish a factsheet on stacking, but that was withdrawn some time ago, presumably because it was considered a controversial subject:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Stacks.pdf (717.7 KB, 20 views)
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 27th Jan 2018, 09:29
  #236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,086
Serious hatchet job in the Times financial pages today on R3 by Alistair Osborne (who I think is a twerp but is widely held to be really influential)

"After half a century Heathrow doesn't know where to put it's third runway... so many crucial details are still up in the air it's hard to see what the consultation is actually about... having noticed the M25 is one of the busiest roads in the UK Heathroiw says it will ensure our proposals do not result in disruption ... this includes moving the carriageway 150m west, lowering it by 7m into a tunnel and raising the runway height by 5 m - so nothing disruptive about that

Cost? LHR have reduced the costs to 14 Bn - but TfL estimate another 18 Bn in additional transport costs - LHR are offering a 1 Bn towards it.

Two other crucial issues - illegal air quality & noise get no more than platitudes.... No-one knows where the flight paths will be (after 50 years) so they cant measure the detailed impact on local communities "

The consultation is a sham as there will have to be another consultation when these details are known.”
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2018, 12:24
  #237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 401
H Harry.
It is not a consultation but a road show by HAL. The events are in obscure places where less folks will turn up. Please do not forget that the A4 has several options including crossing a lake and the M25, or a tunnel.
No plans for how the runways will operate, that is. A separate roadshow in the future
Trinity 09L is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2018, 13:28
  #238 (permalink)  
Paxing All Over The World
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hertfordshire, UK.
Age: 62
Posts: 8,781
DaveReidUK
Queing Theory 101 says ...
Yup! I used to work in telecommunications so I know all about demand for limited resources and the queue and how many will then go away and how many try again. I did use the word 'dream' twice!

Providing sufficient ground capacity (runways) so that stacking can be limited was the answer but no Brit govt was going to / will ever give it.

I have also sat in the departure queues at EWR and JFK. I think the longest taxi out at JFK from push to turning onto the active was 55 minutes.
PAXboy is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2018, 13:31
  #239 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,086
Hmm - it was billed as a Consultation in our local paper

and here

https://www.heathrowexpansion.com/local-community/consultations/

Consultation 1 launched - 17 January 2018

Heathrow has a launched its first planning consultation. To find out more, including how to respond, please visit the dedicated consultation website at www.heathrowconsultation.com
Heathrow Harry is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2018, 13:33
  #240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,086
"I think the longest taxi out at JFK from push to turning onto the active was 55 minutes"

Same here - a Sunday afternoon as well - decent weather, no backup from earlier incidents... just a longgggggggggggg taxi
Heathrow Harry is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.