Durham Tees Valley-7
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Carlisle Airport is owned and operated by Stobart Air as far as I know, so it may be that the funding was awarded to them in order to create the requisite airport infrastructure rather than to operate those flights themselves. A new terminal building is currently under construction and both the E/W and N/S runways at EGNC are currently being worked on. Hence the aerodrome is closed to all but helicopter traffic until May.
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Presumably the projected loads/yields at CAX will cover the cost whereas not here. Wouldn’t expect a co with shareholders to subsidise if t wasn’t paying its way
Asking a question which I know us on the ground floor don’t know the answer to...but why are no passenger/movement figures available yet for January on the CAA website? LPL,DSA AND DTV..common denominator being PEEL?? Majority of other airports available...
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And, although this is off topic, the CAA has been more and more tardy in the updating of their data. There was a change to their process a year, or more, ago which was suppose to make things not efficient but it appears to have gone the other way. Hopefully an update might be made tomorrow - but there again "tomorrow never comes".
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DTVA AIP entry says fire cover up to and including Category 8 available with prior notice. A330-200 is a Cat 8. A330-300 is a Cat 9. But A330 tankers with much reduced pax capacity, operating with the military, no doubt have different provisions.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Just been looking through some of my old photos including some from Teesside (BMA and Adria DC9s, Air Ecosse SH3s etc).
Stating the flippin' obvious here, but it's amazing that a conurbation the size of Teesside - and the prosperous bit of Yorkshire that's closer to MME than to LBA - can't seemingly entice someone to have a punt at BFS, DUB and LON these days while Carlisle can. I know that it remains to be seen how sustainable CAX's new services are but still, very sad.
Stating the flippin' obvious here, but it's amazing that a conurbation the size of Teesside - and the prosperous bit of Yorkshire that's closer to MME than to LBA - can't seemingly entice someone to have a punt at BFS, DUB and LON these days while Carlisle can. I know that it remains to be seen how sustainable CAX's new services are but still, very sad.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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CAX is a very special case! Maybe if Peel set up an airline, ...
If it was possible to operate flights to LHR I'm sure someone would be doing it, but I think it would have to be Heathrow as the train is now sufficiently competitive that operating to a London airport without lots of connecting traffic clearly wouldn't cut it.
Could BFS and DUB work? I suspect that in market organised differently they could. I feel like there's a little bit of market failure in regional air services in the UK (eg where a link like LDY - LON with clear demand can become a PSO). It's a real shame about Loganair burying the hatchet with Eastern - I really thought they might be the ones to try them!
However on the one hand the only way our regional air services could work better would be if there was an airline with many bases around the UK that was flying a range of sizes of aircraft and able to market efficiently (without worrying about marketing so well that someone would come along with a bigger aircraft and took the route off them).
But on the other hand DTV would only be served in a competitive market, because any airline that operates from a destination to NCL, LBA and DSA (and EMA) is going to see if they can get off with carrying the same number of passengers as they would if they also served MME (and HUY).
And that brings me round to the depressing conclusion; who would operate BFS or DUB? FlyBe and AerLingus (and / or Stobart) could, have bases in the right places, have the right sizes of aircraft, and serve the right types of market. But why would the bother? They're probably already carrying all the people that would book a flight to Belfast or Dublin with them :-( BMI or Eastern could in theory, but it wouldn't be a good fit with their existing networks or markets.
I would say the future carries on looking grim. Unless Stobart buy it for a distribution depot...
If it was possible to operate flights to LHR I'm sure someone would be doing it, but I think it would have to be Heathrow as the train is now sufficiently competitive that operating to a London airport without lots of connecting traffic clearly wouldn't cut it.
Could BFS and DUB work? I suspect that in market organised differently they could. I feel like there's a little bit of market failure in regional air services in the UK (eg where a link like LDY - LON with clear demand can become a PSO). It's a real shame about Loganair burying the hatchet with Eastern - I really thought they might be the ones to try them!
However on the one hand the only way our regional air services could work better would be if there was an airline with many bases around the UK that was flying a range of sizes of aircraft and able to market efficiently (without worrying about marketing so well that someone would come along with a bigger aircraft and took the route off them).
But on the other hand DTV would only be served in a competitive market, because any airline that operates from a destination to NCL, LBA and DSA (and EMA) is going to see if they can get off with carrying the same number of passengers as they would if they also served MME (and HUY).
And that brings me round to the depressing conclusion; who would operate BFS or DUB? FlyBe and AerLingus (and / or Stobart) could, have bases in the right places, have the right sizes of aircraft, and serve the right types of market. But why would the bother? They're probably already carrying all the people that would book a flight to Belfast or Dublin with them :-( BMI or Eastern could in theory, but it wouldn't be a good fit with their existing networks or markets.
I would say the future carries on looking grim. Unless Stobart buy it for a distribution depot...
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I agree that Loganair were the big hope. I suspect they might be back. I doubt Eastern/Flybe will try Belfast as it'll eat into their NCL-BHD service. Personally I reckon MME's aforementioned catchment area could surely sustain a weekend service to DUB on Ryanair.
Think I've said it before on here, but the demographic that used Globespan, BMIBaby, and a service to the Dominican Republic when NCL didn't have one, hasn't gone anywhere.
Just thinking aloud here...
Think I've said it before on here, but the demographic that used Globespan, BMIBaby, and a service to the Dominican Republic when NCL didn't have one, hasn't gone anywhere.
Just thinking aloud here...
Join Date: Jul 2005
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In one sense they haven't gone anywhere, but in the other sense they've gone to Newcastle and the train station.
The real killer for the airport is the lack of a London service. If they had that then it would be worthwhile having the airport already staffed for all the above.
But I can't see it coming back :-(
The real killer for the airport is the lack of a London service. If they had that then it would be worthwhile having the airport already staffed for all the above.
But I can't see it coming back :-(
Would a London service be for "London" or for onward connections? If the latter, how is it different/better than KLM, and what would be the impact on them? KLM already use their smallest a/c on the minimum practicable schedule.
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In this age of "bigger is better" is a 70 seater really the smallest feasible aircraft to operate? It seems to me that this is what has left regional airports in a shambles, and I am not convinced passengers are really better off because of it. This obviously applies not just to DTV.
Oh well,back to square one.
Loganair finishes today which means DTV Aberdeen services back in the capable hands of Eastern.Free to mess around as they wish.
The much heralded Super Break charters down to only 2.
KLM reducing over the summer to two a day.
Back to square one..eh ...actually minus 1 !
Loganair finishes today which means DTV Aberdeen services back in the capable hands of Eastern.Free to mess around as they wish.
The much heralded Super Break charters down to only 2.
KLM reducing over the summer to two a day.
Back to square one..eh ...actually minus 1 !
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But do they really have the right sizes of aircraft? Serious question.
In this age of "bigger is better" is a 70 seater really the smallest feasible aircraft to operate? It seems to me that this is what has left regional airports in a shambles, and I am not convinced passengers are really better off because of it. This obviously applies not just to DTV.
In this age of "bigger is better" is a 70 seater really the smallest feasible aircraft to operate? It seems to me that this is what has left regional airports in a shambles, and I am not convinced passengers are really better off because of it. This obviously applies not just to DTV.
I definitely feel there is a market failure. It appeared that the main problems CityManxWing2 and LinksAir had were that they lacked the economies of scale required to, in the technical sense, be respectable operators of aircraft. It appeared that certainly there can be routes to Blackpool and Gloucester that are otherwise very much viable, but that there is nobody to operate and that would need to be part of a larger operator & network for the purposes of operating & marketing organisation (and I'm sure that DTV, Oxford, Cambridge and Shoreham could be the same). This is quite a shame :-(
Last edited by 01475; 16th Mar 2018 at 15:24.
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I personally think you can go on & on all day about markets, route to London, etc, but I feel it's all too complicated. It is in reality just a vicious circle if you have a large airport with many services & excellent access and passenger facilities then this will in itself attract more airlines & services & so it goes on, one feeds the other.
The economics of such a set up involve large volumes that facilitate the addition & improvements necessary to maintain & grow. This in turn makes airlines happy & attracts more pax. & more routes....
Until you can invest & grow such a model & reap the benefits of "volume" then you ain't going to get anywhere fast. In DTV's case then Peel clearly don't see this as a viable business model, when as it would appear they can simply access land and build whatever to support the local economic structure.
From a “non” aviation enthusiasts ( and there are many !) view, then this concept is itself not a bad thing. i.e. grow the local economy , increase it's wealth and the ability / affordability of it's residents to travel, with no specific agenda to seek out a local airport.
You can put any pax service into DTV, address the costs of doing so & hope the pax will turn up. But on a small scale operation doubtful they will in sufficient numbers as greater attractions elsewhere. History unfortunately counts for nothing, "we used to fly to London "x" times a day, so what ?
With efficient transport infra structure, once one has accepted that they have to travel to an airport at all, then the additional hour on road becomes less material & in that time c. 40 miles of travel create a much larger catchment area for the competition.
Unfortunately I can't see an answer on where to go next, the only way I see any way at all that DTV will ever "rise from the ashes" is not through the chasing of low volume low frequency UK destinations, is if they can place themselves in a position to attract and support a significantly sized lowco operator.
Unfortunately it is difficult to ascertain who is the more disinterested in pursuing and investing in such a project, Peel, or the Lowco's themselves...
The economics of such a set up involve large volumes that facilitate the addition & improvements necessary to maintain & grow. This in turn makes airlines happy & attracts more pax. & more routes....
Until you can invest & grow such a model & reap the benefits of "volume" then you ain't going to get anywhere fast. In DTV's case then Peel clearly don't see this as a viable business model, when as it would appear they can simply access land and build whatever to support the local economic structure.
From a “non” aviation enthusiasts ( and there are many !) view, then this concept is itself not a bad thing. i.e. grow the local economy , increase it's wealth and the ability / affordability of it's residents to travel, with no specific agenda to seek out a local airport.
You can put any pax service into DTV, address the costs of doing so & hope the pax will turn up. But on a small scale operation doubtful they will in sufficient numbers as greater attractions elsewhere. History unfortunately counts for nothing, "we used to fly to London "x" times a day, so what ?
With efficient transport infra structure, once one has accepted that they have to travel to an airport at all, then the additional hour on road becomes less material & in that time c. 40 miles of travel create a much larger catchment area for the competition.
Unfortunately I can't see an answer on where to go next, the only way I see any way at all that DTV will ever "rise from the ashes" is not through the chasing of low volume low frequency UK destinations, is if they can place themselves in a position to attract and support a significantly sized lowco operator.
Unfortunately it is difficult to ascertain who is the more disinterested in pursuing and investing in such a project, Peel, or the Lowco's themselves...
Welcome back Skyman with an excellent view...
The NE is a strange area...not much inbound tourism...and I don’t know why...not much in the way of major industrial players..and most of those are on Teeside...and not a major population feed...so...what is the answer?
Me thinks..please don’t shout..but pax should be concentrated on NCL.Its well established and accepted.
DTV. The ancillary business...maintenance,painting,freight and private. NCL don’t seem too interested in that business.
Working together two airports could succeed?
Without I fear for one of the NE airports..
The NE is a strange area...not much inbound tourism...and I don’t know why...not much in the way of major industrial players..and most of those are on Teeside...and not a major population feed...so...what is the answer?
Me thinks..please don’t shout..but pax should be concentrated on NCL.Its well established and accepted.
DTV. The ancillary business...maintenance,painting,freight and private. NCL don’t seem too interested in that business.
Working together two airports could succeed?
Without I fear for one of the NE airports..
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Locos went to places like DTV in the days when places like NCL didn't realise that this was going to be the future and that they were going to have to bend over backwards to accommodate them :-(
