Birmingham-7
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Behind a desk, dreaming of the sky
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take it to the ultimate extreme and give seats away for nothing you will have almost 100% load factor.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Middle england
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair is an advertising/marketing ploy. Judging by the Ryanair results they do not operate flights that nobody wants and if they do it is pulled pretty quickly.
Overcapacity can not be blamed solely for the Monarch demise at BHX and elsewhere although extra competition did not help. Were they not in the same mess last year without the Jet 2 presence at BHX.
Overcapacity can not be blamed solely for the Monarch demise at BHX and elsewhere although extra competition did not help. Were they not in the same mess last year without the Jet 2 presence at BHX.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
Posts: 1,842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that many airports will struggle to sustain numbers over the next year. Recent routes have had long enough to prove that they can generate real income rather than PAX at loss leading fares.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
(eg will Brits have visa free travel to the EU come March 2019?)
S1E
Are you willing to state c. £2000, and your families only chance of a foreign holiday on it?
Or would you wait until closer to the time and see which way the wind blows?
At the risk of thread drift, I can see an “ash cloud” style scenario, where if we crash out of the EU without any agreements in place, flights will be grounded for a few days / weeks until the various legal issues are sorted, as no one (I.e insurers, etc) wants to put their head above the parapet and say “the documentation is legal, go flying”
You mean like the way we did before there was an EU? Am going to go out on a limb and say "yes".
Or would you wait until closer to the time and see which way the wind blows?
At the risk of thread drift, I can see an “ash cloud” style scenario, where if we crash out of the EU without any agreements in place, flights will be grounded for a few days / weeks until the various legal issues are sorted, as no one (I.e insurers, etc) wants to put their head above the parapet and say “the documentation is legal, go flying”
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Judging by the Ryanair results they do not operate flights that nobody wants and if they do it is pulled pretty quickly.2
maybe that's the secret of making money from an airline................
maybe that's the secret of making money from an airline................
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@thetimesreader84
On Brexit, Willie Walsh himself, no fan of Brexit, stated this week there was “zero” chance of this happeneing. It would be an insanely self inflicted and avoidable wound and no credible person on either side has suggested this was remotely likely, not even Hammond who was misquoted.
Cutting Lufthansa KLM and Air France out of the UK market just won’t happen, even in a no deal WTO scenario. Contingency and planning is (finally) underway to smooth even the bumpiest no deal scenario.
On Brexit, Willie Walsh himself, no fan of Brexit, stated this week there was “zero” chance of this happeneing. It would be an insanely self inflicted and avoidable wound and no credible person on either side has suggested this was remotely likely, not even Hammond who was misquoted.
Cutting Lufthansa KLM and Air France out of the UK market just won’t happen, even in a no deal WTO scenario. Contingency and planning is (finally) underway to smooth even the bumpiest no deal scenario.
S1E
Last comment on it, as I don’t want to derail the thread further.
I agree, it’s a vanishingly small chance of “no deal” grounding flights, however I have a small feeling something will be overlooked (“Paragraph 4, subclause b, section 4.2.4 part ii, which states no non-eu carrier can have aircraft insurance not based in the eu” or some other equal nonsense) that would ground flights for a period of time.
I’d put the chances of that happening the same as the unpronounceable Icelandic volcano blowing up again. Long odds, but not impossible.
Personally I’ll be waiting until closer to the time before booking holidays, but I’m cautious like that.
Last comment on it, as I don’t want to derail the thread further.
I agree, it’s a vanishingly small chance of “no deal” grounding flights, however I have a small feeling something will be overlooked (“Paragraph 4, subclause b, section 4.2.4 part ii, which states no non-eu carrier can have aircraft insurance not based in the eu” or some other equal nonsense) that would ground flights for a period of time.
I’d put the chances of that happening the same as the unpronounceable Icelandic volcano blowing up again. Long odds, but not impossible.
Personally I’ll be waiting until closer to the time before booking holidays, but I’m cautious like that.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: W. Midlands
Posts: 372
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Summer 18 will indeed be interesting. At present, BHX has lost Aegean, Air Transat, Cobalt, Norwegian and United. Flybe are down to 10 aircraft. In terms of destinations, no more Athens, Brest, Gibraltar, Limoges, Lisbon, Luxembourg, Nice, Nuremburg, Paris Orly, Preveza, Rennes, Toulouse, Valencia. Perhaps small fry in terms of individual route performance, but they all mean lost passengers, lost revenue to BHX and reduced choice.
Flybe have a weekly charter to Preveza
Flybe require at least 11 based aircraft to cover the s18 schedule
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair is a cancer on this industry! It is sadly now terminal hence most canaries flights now twice or more than they were last year! Well done people you are about to reap what you sewed!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
Age: 60
Posts: 3,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
September up 12.7%
Finally.
Source CAA: 1362559 up nearly 13% (1208581 for 2016).
Emirates 55489 down 10% but a reduction in 26% in seats due to the loss of EK41/2. Average 462 per flight at 89%. I thought it might have been higher.
Qatar Doha 11556 average 193 at 76% a slight improvement (down 10% on September 2016)
Air India 13788 average 230 @ 90% - I believe one of the best months yet and time for an increase?
PIA Islamabad 7237 down but average 329 per flight at 88% due to a reduced frequency but much better load factor.
Turkish 13377 up 4% average 129 around 80% load factor, Rumours it might go back to double daily but certainly seems to have picked up and possibly EK traffic.
Newark - 8631 up 10%... Time for an increase.....whoops forgot the service has gone (Manchester- Newark... 8511 pax down 4%).
Source CAA: 1362559 up nearly 13% (1208581 for 2016).
Emirates 55489 down 10% but a reduction in 26% in seats due to the loss of EK41/2. Average 462 per flight at 89%. I thought it might have been higher.
Qatar Doha 11556 average 193 at 76% a slight improvement (down 10% on September 2016)
Air India 13788 average 230 @ 90% - I believe one of the best months yet and time for an increase?
PIA Islamabad 7237 down but average 329 per flight at 88% due to a reduced frequency but much better load factor.
Turkish 13377 up 4% average 129 around 80% load factor, Rumours it might go back to double daily but certainly seems to have picked up and possibly EK traffic.
Newark - 8631 up 10%... Time for an increase.....whoops forgot the service has gone (Manchester- Newark... 8511 pax down 4%).
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ballymena
Posts: 1,438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So two recent experiences of Birmingham.
1. Arrived on 30th Oct about 11.30 am from Belfast. All deplaned onto 2 buses and then driven to the other terminal(2?). Belfast passengers on Ezy have to use the "special" door so we pulled up and waited for the door to be opened. We stood on the bus for about 20 minutes at a guess. One lady was suffering from the fact there was no room and was on the point of passing out. Some of the pax were hammering the glass to the driver asking him to open the doors to let some air in, it was quite warm, but he just looked round and then ignored us. After the long wait, they decided this door wasn't going to open so we set off on another short tour to drive to the airbridge just behind where we were sitting to then be let off and climb the stairs into the airbridge. There were some older people there, just left to their own devices. It was a shambles and clear that the staff didn't care what was happening. I know some will defend due to security etc, the old lame excuses that are always trotted out but our treatment was disgraceful. Birmingham seem to have a bit of an issue with Belfast pax, they are seen as 6th class. I wonder when someone in authority in this country will have the courage to stand up and challenge some of the *** we have to put up with. Our flight was on time.
2. Returning from another journey last night. The big screen at security said the waiting time was 13 minutes from when you scan your boarding pass, we were able to walk most of the way to the top of that walkway. We then waited 20 minutes plus. So what is the point? Is the screen with the waiting time displayed an attempt to be helpful, so why not get it right? Or are they pretending to be helpful but don't care a toss? I also have to say, that area was filthy, as I pointed out to the security manager on duty when addressing the time issues.
Overall, a very poor experience, all of it very easily fixed but it won't be. Poor poor management.
1. Arrived on 30th Oct about 11.30 am from Belfast. All deplaned onto 2 buses and then driven to the other terminal(2?). Belfast passengers on Ezy have to use the "special" door so we pulled up and waited for the door to be opened. We stood on the bus for about 20 minutes at a guess. One lady was suffering from the fact there was no room and was on the point of passing out. Some of the pax were hammering the glass to the driver asking him to open the doors to let some air in, it was quite warm, but he just looked round and then ignored us. After the long wait, they decided this door wasn't going to open so we set off on another short tour to drive to the airbridge just behind where we were sitting to then be let off and climb the stairs into the airbridge. There were some older people there, just left to their own devices. It was a shambles and clear that the staff didn't care what was happening. I know some will defend due to security etc, the old lame excuses that are always trotted out but our treatment was disgraceful. Birmingham seem to have a bit of an issue with Belfast pax, they are seen as 6th class. I wonder when someone in authority in this country will have the courage to stand up and challenge some of the *** we have to put up with. Our flight was on time.
2. Returning from another journey last night. The big screen at security said the waiting time was 13 minutes from when you scan your boarding pass, we were able to walk most of the way to the top of that walkway. We then waited 20 minutes plus. So what is the point? Is the screen with the waiting time displayed an attempt to be helpful, so why not get it right? Or are they pretending to be helpful but don't care a toss? I also have to say, that area was filthy, as I pointed out to the security manager on duty when addressing the time issues.
Overall, a very poor experience, all of it very easily fixed but it won't be. Poor poor management.
Belfast flights have historically been treated differently to other UK domestic flights as a result of thankfully historical "troubles". You have no idea what the cause of the delay was, perhaps airport technology, perhaps the late arrival of security personnel at the gate, which cannot be laid at the door of the airport company.
So far as queues at departure are concerned, the biggest problem is going to be Joe Public, who often appear to be oblivious to the security requirements with regard to stuff like liquids, belts, shoes, electronics etc, even though these rules haven't changed substantially for many years. It doesn't take many obstreperous passengers, arguing with security officials about what does and what does not constitute a liquid, or why they have to remove belts to extend waiting time by 8 minutes. It doesn't matter how well prepared you are for the ordeal of security, it's usually "the other guy" - bit like the post office queue.
I'm not trying to defend the airport management, but I'm afraid this is just one of a number of frustrations that confront air passengers today, and have done really since the late 1970s.
So far as queues at departure are concerned, the biggest problem is going to be Joe Public, who often appear to be oblivious to the security requirements with regard to stuff like liquids, belts, shoes, electronics etc, even though these rules haven't changed substantially for many years. It doesn't take many obstreperous passengers, arguing with security officials about what does and what does not constitute a liquid, or why they have to remove belts to extend waiting time by 8 minutes. It doesn't matter how well prepared you are for the ordeal of security, it's usually "the other guy" - bit like the post office queue.
I'm not trying to defend the airport management, but I'm afraid this is just one of a number of frustrations that confront air passengers today, and have done really since the late 1970s.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excellent post ATNotts on security. I too am constantly dumbfounded at how dumb people are when passing through security. As you say, general rules haven't changed for years yet there are still people who appear gobsmacked when they have to put liquids into a single bag, therefore holding up everyone else with their stupidity.
I will agree, the security queuing time screens at BHX are rarely spot on. They're there for a guideline time. I passed through last week, it said 11 minutes, I was through in 5.
As for EZY pax woes, it's not the first time I've heard of this kind of thing happening. Baggage often takes an age to appear. Why not move EZY flights to arrive at what was T2, cutting out the bus frustration at least? It's only 3 flights a day which could easily be slotted in?
On a different note, the first Phuket flight takes off today, a historic first for BHX as it's the first time we've had a non stop regular flight to Thailand. I wish TUI every success, although it is rumoured that it has already been dropped for next winter in favour of Langkawi.....
I will agree, the security queuing time screens at BHX are rarely spot on. They're there for a guideline time. I passed through last week, it said 11 minutes, I was through in 5.
As for EZY pax woes, it's not the first time I've heard of this kind of thing happening. Baggage often takes an age to appear. Why not move EZY flights to arrive at what was T2, cutting out the bus frustration at least? It's only 3 flights a day which could easily be slotted in?
On a different note, the first Phuket flight takes off today, a historic first for BHX as it's the first time we've had a non stop regular flight to Thailand. I wish TUI every success, although it is rumoured that it has already been dropped for next winter in favour of Langkawi.....
Last edited by GayFriendly; 8th Nov 2017 at 09:01. Reason: Added more info
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stafford
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’d like to think I have it down to a fine art - I make sure I have nothing in my pockets, I don’t bother to put my watch on, my iPad is in hand ready to go through separately, all liquids bagged correctly, I wear shorts/trousers that don’t need a belt and in the summer months I put on a pair of flip flops! I can honestly say I never hold anyone up.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
Age: 60
Posts: 3,324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TUI
GF
Phuket just about to land now and tomorrow sees Goa restart after many years so another first I believe with two direct different Indian destinations on the same day, assuming the Delhi fog doesn't have other ideas. Did you note the operating times of yesterdays AI113/4 or should I say today right in the middle of the night runway closure
Obviously Thomson operated Goa in the past and Air India used 707's but via Moscow and I doubt they operated at the same time.
Two TUI 787's again tomorrow with Cancun - It might be tough times with Monarch, United and Norwegian gone but there are glimmers of hope and although the two TUI 787's this winter is only fortnightly and covering 3 days but it is progress with next winter looking even better,
Phuket just about to land now and tomorrow sees Goa restart after many years so another first I believe with two direct different Indian destinations on the same day, assuming the Delhi fog doesn't have other ideas. Did you note the operating times of yesterdays AI113/4 or should I say today right in the middle of the night runway closure
Obviously Thomson operated Goa in the past and Air India used 707's but via Moscow and I doubt they operated at the same time.
Two TUI 787's again tomorrow with Cancun - It might be tough times with Monarch, United and Norwegian gone but there are glimmers of hope and although the two TUI 787's this winter is only fortnightly and covering 3 days but it is progress with next winter looking even better,
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pete
I think the only glimmers of hope with long haul from BHX (apart from Primera) are the niche charter routes and TUI are certainly showing commitment to BHX on that front. Wouldn't it be great to see 2 x 787 based in the winter?! I'm still amazed that we don't have Vegas and Cuba served from BHX with charter flights.
You are right about Goa and AI 707's but these would not have operated on same days as AI in their original form finished at BHX in 1984, well before Thomson started Goa. So yes another historic first as you say, double India flights from BHX on the same day, Delhi fog depending! Rumour has it that Goa is weekly next winter as opposed to fortnightly so it must have sold well - having been there I'm not surprised.
I think the only glimmers of hope with long haul from BHX (apart from Primera) are the niche charter routes and TUI are certainly showing commitment to BHX on that front. Wouldn't it be great to see 2 x 787 based in the winter?! I'm still amazed that we don't have Vegas and Cuba served from BHX with charter flights.
You are right about Goa and AI 707's but these would not have operated on same days as AI in their original form finished at BHX in 1984, well before Thomson started Goa. So yes another historic first as you say, double India flights from BHX on the same day, Delhi fog depending! Rumour has it that Goa is weekly next winter as opposed to fortnightly so it must have sold well - having been there I'm not surprised.