Manchester-2

[Rutan16]

Do work for or are a contractor for OTIS, TYSSEN or KONE, Do you know how difficult it is to THEM to site survey, quote and deliver spares for custom machines ?

I’ll let you in to a little secret- I do ! ;Its up to 12 weeks from order and finalised manufacturing details - Yeap instant service and its all down to Chinese demand and parts supply !

Want to use someone else they will still have get the same parts sourced and approved risk assessed and LOLOR tested etc.....

Plus these

• BS EN 13015:2001+A1:2008 - This European standard covers maintenance for lifts and escalators and incorporates amendment 1 2008, Rules for maintenance instructions. This standard specifies the elements necessary for instructions and maintenance for new installed passenger lifts, goods passenger lifts, accessible goods only lifts, service lifts, escalators and passenger conveyors.
• ISO/DIS 25745-1 - This international standard is in response to the rapid increase in the consumption of energy on a worldwide basis. The standard provides a uniform method of measuring energy consumption of all lift products. = THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE PARTICULARLY AT MAG THOSE OLDER MACHINES FAIL ON SO MAG SWITCH THEM OFF !

[simufly]

Originally Posted by Rutan16

Do work for or are a contractor for OTIS, TYSSEN or KONE, Do you know how difficult it is to THEM to site survey, quote and deliver spares for custom machines ?

I’ll let you in to a little secret- I do ! ;Its up to 12 weeks from order and finalised manufacturing details - Yeap instant service and its all down to Chinese demand and parts supply !

Want to use someone else they will still have get the same parts sourced and approved risk assessed and LOLOR tested etc.....

Plus these

• BS EN 13015:2001+A1:2008 - This European standard covers maintenance for lifts and escalators and incorporates amendment 1 2008, Rules for maintenance instructions. This standard specifies the elements necessary for instructions and maintenance for new installed passenger lifts, goods passenger lifts, accessible goods only lifts, service lifts, escalators and passenger conveyors.
• ISO/DIS 25745-1 - This international standard is in response to the rapid increase in the consumption of energy on a worldwide basis. The standard provides a uniform method of measuring energy consumption of all lift products. = THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE PARTICULARLY AT MAG THOSE OLDER MACHINES FAIL ON SO MAG SWITCH THEM OFF !

The travelators in T2 are brand new!

[Rutan16]

And parts this take 3 months and will have integral power down as standard . Walk on they should start automatically !

[Rutan16]

Oh and new doesn’t preclude issues.

Indeed KONE in particular has a number of software issues with controls known in the industry.

Your experience at MAG may be biased knowingly or otherwise.

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by RHINO

With the fiasco today (again) is it not time that the airport was privatised?

MAG Group is a FOR PROFIT commercial business and the councils are simply shareholders along with a number of private investment and pension funds.

Its already subjected to FULL commercial disclosure and effectively a private business .

[Scottie Dog]

Originally Posted by Rutan16

And parts this take 3 months and will have integral power down as standard . Walk on they should start automatically !

Thank you for such a full explanation in your earlier post. This does confirm an answer given by Tricia Williams (former airport COO) when I had a meeting with her at the end of last year and raised this specific question.

As the years go by we appear to rely more and more on machinery that is designed to make life easier for us but which, unfortunately, has a short life span. I do understand that, for the elderly and infirm, it is important to get assistance when for example moving between T1 and The Station - having seen a gentleman struggling with his suitcase whilst also relying on a walking stick - and the days of old where a porter would assist are long gone, and this is where it's items such as travellators that are of help.

On that note I'll just say how grateful I am for my reasonable state of health and fitness.

[RHINO]

Originally Posted by Rutan16

MAG Group is a FOR PROFIT commercial business and the councils are simply shareholders along with a number of private investment and pension funds.

Its already subjected to FULL commercial disclosure and effectively a private business .

Really, you could of fooled me. I would prefer the people who own Gatwick to be owning and running MAN. The whole customer experience is so much better. Whether it be security, boarding, disembarking, parking, you name it they do it better. Why can't we have 'better'? T1 is third world, I see know signs of it being improved.

[Curious Pax]

Originally Posted by RHINO

Really, you could of fooled me. I would prefer the people who own Gatwick to be owning and running MAN.

That’s an entirely different question then. After nearly 40 years of privatisation I would have thought it obvious that it isn’t some sort of magic wand. Like most things, private companies span the full range from breathtakingly incompetent to efficient customer focused organisations. The larger the company the more likely it is to have middle management who are more focused on their silo, and how to make it deliver the right numbers to get an annual bonus. Too often there is a disconnect between that and what the customer experiences. Shareholder value, which they are ultimately striving for, is often at 180 degrees to what the customer wants. With a monopoly business - which an airport is in reality, despite the protestations about competing with Dublin, Liverpool etc in this case - a company is better able to keep their profits and growth improving without having to spend as much as would otherwise be the case.

Ignoring the 1001 realities that put it into fantasy land, it’s not hard to imagine MAN (and most other airports in their position to be fair) running a completely different strategy if there was a rival airport 3 miles away that had similar accessibility to passengers, and a similar range of destinations. That would be competition! Heathrow and Gatwick aren’t competitors to that degree, but they are a lot closer to it than anything MAN experiences, which perhaps goes some way to explain the differing strategies they take.

[Dairyground]

Originally posted by Curious Pax
Ignoring the 1001 realities that put it into fantasy land, it’s not hard to imagine MAN (and most other airports in their position to be fair) running a completely different strategy if there was a rival airport 3 miles away that had similar accessibility to passengers, and a similar range of destinations. That would be competition! Heathrow and Gatwick aren’t competitors to that degree, but they are a lot closer to it than anything MAN experiences, which perhaps goes some way to explain the differing strategies they take.

If only Ryanair had bought Woodford when BAE moved out ...

[simufly]

Originally Posted by Rutan16

And parts this take 3 months and will have integral power down as standard . Walk on they should start automatically !

sadly they do not.
I have no other agenda other than a cheesed off pax, desiring a service for the money I have paid.

[pwalhx]

Originally Posted by simufly

sadly they do not.
I have no other agenda other than a cheesed off pax, desiring a service for the money I have paid.

And to be honest that is what you get, people want cheap fares so consequently there is less to spend on the the infrastructure.

Having said that the airport is spending £1 billion on infrastructure and people are still unhappy.

[Matty Rich 83]

RHINO Considering T1 is being demolished after the completion of the TP (2024) there’s little point in spending a fortune on fixing it, it’s a case of put up and shut up until then. We can only hope (and I am confident it will happen) that the new T2 experience will be better than the current T1 & T2 infrastructure.
As for T3...don’t get me started...!!

[HKGBOY]

No definite commitment to demolish T1- it's still a wish list item. Certainly won't be 2024. Blue Skylink buckets will be needed for many more years yet.

Aside from Government Airport Taxes- each MAN passenger pays £12.12 each as a Passenger Facility charge in addition to £6.25 per person for security screening. This applies whether you use a loco or a full fare outfit. Some airlines possibly have deals where this is not passed onto MAG in full. However, non the less in 2018 MAG made record profits and paid out record dividends to shareholders.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Originally Posted by Matty Rich 83

RHINO Considering T1 is being demolished after the completion of the TP (2024) there’s little point in spending a fortune on fixing it, it’s a case of put up and shut up until then. We can only hope (and I am confident it will happen) that the new T2 experience will be better than the current T1 & T2 infrastructure.
As for T3...don’t get me started...!!

T3 was never designed for what it's now being used for.

[RHINO]

I often wonder if the second runway was a vanity project and the money would have been better spent on the terminals/surrounding infrastructure

[TURIN]

Originally Posted by simufly

Possibly, but the up escalator @T2 has been U/S for a four weeks. Incompetence personified.

How do you know its incompetence?

Maybe the parts they require need to be shipped from half way around the world, or even made to order. Perhaps the maintenance team has been directed to more urgent work.
You pay peanuts for air travel but expect the infrastructure to be operating like a private yacht with unlimited funds!

Get real!

[AndrewH52]

Originally Posted by TURIN

How do you know its incompetence?

Maybe the parts they require need to be shipped from half way around the world, or even made to order. Perhaps the maintenance team has been directed to more urgent work.
You pay peanuts for air travel but expect the infrastructure to be operating like a private yacht with unlimited funds!

Get real!

A significant proportion of MAN’s pax still pay considerably more than peanuts for the ‘pleasure’ of travelling through a facility that bills itself as the north’s gateway to the world. The current investment in T2 is welcome but a drop in the ocean of what the wider airport estate needs.

[Jetaway]

Originally Posted by AndrewH52

A significant proportion of MAN’s pax still pay considerably more than peanuts for the ‘pleasure’ of travelling through a facility that bills itself as the north’s gateway to the world. The current investment in T2 is welcome but a drop in the ocean of what the wider airport estate needs.

Should the airport look to build a T4 due to the capacity restraints building on the existing footprint? Although where the new footprint would be is up for a debate. (I think the western maintenence area even though I know it would be costly moving the fuel farm.)

[MAN777]

I dont think its a lot to expect having escalators and travelators actually working.

If the components are hard to come by at short notice why not have spares in stock.?

Over the last few years I have travelled through dozens of airports all over the world and dont ever recall seeing any such installations closed.

[Scottie Dog]

I'll be interested to see what response, apart from a brush off, I get from the airport's Customer Services director to my complaint about the escalators, lifts and travellators not working.

I'll let you know what excuses are given, but I agree 100pc with MAN777's comment about the need to hold spares if they keep breaking.