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Manchester-2

Old 19th Jun 2018, 19:57
  #1741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,023
FFMAN,

Are you not able to do your 'business' online? I do loads of stuff without having to leave home these days. Think of the CO2 you would save.

With the internet, 'business travel' should become a thing of the past.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 20:14
  #1742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Originally Posted by ZOOKER View Post
FFMAN,

Are you not able to do your 'business' online? I do loads of stuff without having to leave home these days. Think of the CO2 you would save.

With the internet, 'business travel' should become a thing of the past.
Business doesnít work like that especially if you are keen to grow through exporting - it often takes face to face negotiations or attendance at trade shows to seal a deal. Business travellers are critical to MANís long term success - if they start to take their business elsewhere it will take a long time to win them back and put some of the hard won new long haul routes at risk.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 20:48
  #1743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Well I've imported quite a bit over the years Andrew, and the 'exporters' with whom I deal have never felt the need to come and see me, in over 25 years. Business travellers will be up Sh!t Creek without a paddle when the oil runs out....As it will do, sooner, rather than later. It will certainly put the kibosh on new long-haul routes........Hard-won or otherwise.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 20:52
  #1744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 60
Posts: 464
Manchester has as many BUSINESS routes as Heathrow but hang on.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/british-airways-border-queues-at-heathrow-are-damaging-the-uks-reputation-a3866386.html

When queues form at Manchester its the airports fault ie Manchester.

....at Heathrow , inexplicably , it's Border Force !
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 21:10
  #1745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Valencia
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Manchester, just like LHR, has its problems with border queues. What we are talking about here is the airport's incompetence to organise its security clearance and manage its queues. This is solely the airport's responsibility.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 21:15
  #1746 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I used to commute through MAN on regular basis between six to ten years ago and sometimes it was as frequent as flying in and out once a week and it was an acceptable experience back then. I revisited the airport a couple of times last summer and I was appalled at what I saw in terms of how congested T3 was but what really stood out, was how staff interacted with passengers at security. I now try and steer clear if at all possible!

Perhaps one of the worst security experiences at any UK airport.
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 22:15
  #1747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: stockport
Posts: 60
Mr A Tis Did not realise you had to be a frequent flyer to comment on this forum. Anyway flew return journey through terminal 1 which was very busy (6am). We had our boarding card and hand luggage only and from getting out of the car to having a cool pint took 40 minutes. Our return at (4pm) was quicker from chocks to getting in taxi 30 minutes. Maybe its because my travel these days is purely for pleasure and i am easy going , so smile take a chill pill enjoy Cheers Sam
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Old 19th Jun 2018, 23:23
  #1748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,192
Sparky Sam - streuth - a cool pint at 6am ? Lucky you We can't all travel without checked bags.
My last visit was 6am last Friday (T1),- using Fastrack 50 minutes - Non fast trackers 90-120 minutes - You joined the queue at Emirates & walked opposite direction to Etihad before snaking back to easyJet and then the security entrance- as per the Evening News reporting the same on Monday.

Arrival back at MAN - 1 hour to deliver about 40 bags.

Zooker, my other half spends about 10 hours a day on conference calls on line- however, he is required to travel world wide for conferences, workshops & of course trade fairs where promotion of the company in person is essential. Although based in Hong Kong he spends an awful lot of time in Europe. He works his schedule in the UK to avoid MAN as much as possible but sometimes it's unavoidable. If you are working a 14 hour day you don't want to start with a 2 hour wait stood in a pen.

I have supported MAN all my life & the great days of Gill T are gone and now we have managers interested in bonuses rather than passenger experience. Yes many people have good or indifferent experiences, but it is abundantly clear a substantial number are having abysmal experiences. That's not a subjective view but reality, to suggest otherwise is denial.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 06:25
  #1749 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sydney
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Originally Posted by Mr A Tis View Post
That's not a subjective view but reality, to suggest otherwise is denial.
Indeed it is denial. I don't know why so many people on this forum get so defensive about it. The passenger experience going through security at MAN is extremely poor compared to any other world airport that I've been through. And I go through around 25 departure terminals each year in Europe, Asia and the USA, and I speak from many years of experience.

I have a special fondness for Ringway due to it being my original home airport but the plain fact is that I've never been anywhere else where you regularly queue 45+ minutes to clear security. I don't know if the problem is due to limited terminal capacity, cost-cutting on staffing levels or something else, but it just does not happen elsewhere. I hope that queues can be reduced to a level that's on par with other airports when the TP is delivered. Having a pleasant customer experience will boost traffic as passengers will choose to fly again through Manchester rather than select another airport. I imagine that most readers of this forum want Manchester to have as wide a network as possible, and improving the outbound security delays will help to deliver that goal.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 07:19
  #1750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
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I appreciate MANCHESTER doesn't exactly run like a well oiled machine but i am puzzled that when security issues re queues manifest at MANCHESTER its MAGs fault.

At Heathrow yesterday it was a shambles and IAG wasted no time in screaming blue murder that it was a Border Force problem. they got there point across via a headline in The Telegraph.

What is up with Manchester PR that they are so timid ?

Last edited by Navpi; 20th Jun 2018 at 10:36.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 07:53
  #1751 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
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Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
I appreciate MANCHESTER doesn't exactly run like a well oiled machine but i am puzzled that when securty issues re queues manidest st MANCHESTER its MAGs fault.

At Heathrow yesterday it was a shambles and IAG wasted no time in screaming blue murder that it was a Border Force problem. they got there pointacross via a headline in The Telegraph.

What is up with Manchester PR that they are so timid ?
Security is MAG employees, they control the number of security lanes, number of security staff and how many are for priority lanes or Joe Public. At other airports the security can either be done by the Airport Authority or Private Security like G4S. Border Force & the Police have nothing to do with the routine security searches of passengers and their cabin baggage. Theyíll only become involved if the Security staff believe a crime has or is being committed.

Border Force & Police are Law Enforcement, Border Force are responsible the passport control queues. 99% of the time this is arrivals but during heightened security (ie after a terrorist event) Embarks will be reinforced and queues will develop after security when they conduct controls. Staffing numbers can drastically reduce for passport checks when Border Force make arrests or detain for Immigration crime, Drug Seizures or Detention of wanted criminals. This will reduce the numbers available for the control and queues will increase but Iím sure most people are willing to wait while they deal with a person with drugs concealed within their bodies or remove a person on a false passport.

Both the Police and BF will conduct checks on Common Travel Area on Intelligence basis, again most people are ok with a longer wait so that Law Enforcement can do their checks.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 08:48
  #1752 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,042
I'm sure some senior managers at MAN do read this forum and may even post. The messages relayed, especially by regular flyers through the airport, may well be more effective than contacting customer relations. The stories in the M.E.N., even if not totally accurate or complete, are hardly pleasant reading and will have made some impact.

However, without fuller information as to what is causing the problems, it's difficult to assess from outside how quickly they can be addressed and resolved. If it's the infrastructure in T1 and T3 which limits the space in which more security channels and equipment can be introduced, is that an easy fix? On the other hand, if existing security lines are not fully in use due to staff shortages, is it straightforward to bring in additional trained staff at short notice? Maybe, maybe not. Is the processing time for each passenger too long? If so, why? Are too many bags being referred for a hand check and second scan?

Nevertheless, it is difficult not to conclude that MAN waited rather too long after the financial crash when traffic numbers were increasing strongly before formulating plans for modernisation. If T1 is likely to remain until 2022, then some measures are urgently required unless some throughput can
be transferred to T2 sooner than was initially planned, assuming facilities there as the TP progresses can cope.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 09:12
  #1753 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NW
Posts: 105
Stop moaning about MAN

OK, it has it's faults, but, take a look at CDG. By comparison, MAN is excellent in comparison.

Stop knocking it and start using it.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 09:19
  #1754 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 53
Posts: 815
If you check the MAN jobs pages there is always an ad there for security staff, which is probably not unrelated to the recent points in this thread. I would surmise that they either have a problem with staff turnover, or getting people in in the first place.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 09:42
  #1755 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Where the next project takes me
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Originally Posted by mickyman View Post
FFMAN
.Perhaps there should be a business lane for you at all airports so that you can
concentrate on your work and bring in more deals without being distracted or irritated?
Oh tut tut Mickeyman. To use a topical analogy: play the ball not the man. But thanks for proving my point. I don't want any special treatment - this debate is nothing to do with that - I want equal treatment - equal treatment with security processing at other comparable airports. I don't want to be treated like a piece of doggie doo just because I'm unlucky enough to have MAN as my 'home airport'.

There are so many people in denial about these very real issues. The real beneficiaries of recent growth are senior managers and plane spotters (the latter of which I can believe are well represented on this forum so are naturally inclined to defend everything about the airport - and they're entitled to do that of course). The truth is that MAN's security experience is much worse than much bigger airports.

As well as lack of staff, the security system itself is partly the problem. Instead of the old system where one person is processed at a time (in / out and gone) the system of having your search belongings separated slows things down dramatically. Here's what happens: you arrive at a loading point - you are one of four at each station. The other three are your 'competitors' . You pick a tray, load it and then wait for a gap to put it on the belt. And wait.... because the belt has stopped loading (see later). This slows you down because you can't pick up another tray until the previous one can be pushed through. So you wait some more. I would guess that the average number of trays per pax is three so multiply that delay by three.
Also at this point the insistence on putting carry on bags into a tray is just nonsense - I have noticed a number of foreign airports have tried this and now stopped it - Dublin being the most recent.
So through the actual body scan - no problems there. Now to the other delay at the other end. Since your three trays have been loaded separately at the front end, they come out with other people's trays mixed among them. Your first tray may be three trays in front of the second and so on. I have been counting this recently to prove my point. My last time through T1 Security A - my third tray came 16 trays after the second one (although I accept that was extreme). So again you wait. If just one tray of the average three is redirected for a manual search, the other two often remain on the belt until the search is done.This causes the belt at the delivery end to back up, causing it to stop and stopping the front belt - therefore causing further delays at the front end (see earlier).

The single loading system used at Frankfurt works properly since none of the above problems occur - you load all your trays sequentially - the result being there are rarely any security queues at an airport almost 3 time the size of MAN. Average wait at FRA is less than 5 mins I would say.

I can only suggest to the frequent flyers who are frustrated that they complain to the airlines and tell them about it.
MAN management will not listen to or care about pax but they might listen to airlines.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 10:28
  #1756 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 38
Posts: 406
There's a huge irony I have found in my over-traveling in recent years.
Airline people have experience of multiple airports, as do their crews and customers, this allows a balanced judgement. Airport managers don't travel nearly as much, (why would they?) or if they do, they're not paying attention.
Airports are, ironically, fundamentally local. They have a BASIC DfT framework they are obliged to work to, but they are free to add in tighter local controls, in the case of MAN, I have been told at least twice "This is the Manchester way, we do things better here." That's local thinking driven from local management, it causes a huge amount of frustration with people who have may have literally seen the same problem addressed in a much more efficient way at the airport they started their day at. It can be done well, look at how much better Gatwick is. Glasgow also has a huge new security hall, albeit one which drops you into shops......Edinburgh I am not convinced about alas.
MAG has done what BAA did at LHR in the 90s, they took their eye off the ball and allowed the infrastructure to become slowly unsuitable for purpose until one day, it breaks.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 10:38
  #1757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 60
Posts: 464
BUT if LHR had the SAME problems yesterday with the finger pointed at Border Force, is that not the root of the problem at Manchester as well ?

I appreciate MAN has own security but it seems somewhat coincidental !
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 11:01
  #1758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 53
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Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
BUT if LHR had the SAME problems yesterday with the finger pointed at Border Force, is that not the root of the problem at Manchester as well ?

I appreciate MAN has own security but it seems somewhat coincidental !
completely different - MAN has itís own problems with Border Force (see previous posts ad nauseam, particularly for T3), but that is Inbound. Security is purely for outbound flyers (in this context at least).
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 11:12
  #1759 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.K
Posts: 503
I can only suggest to the frequent flyers who are frustrated that they complain to the airlines and tell them about it.
MAN management will not listen to or care about pax but they might listen to airlines.
The airlines do frequently complain, not only because late passengers are late to the gate which entails a delay on departure, but also the treatment of Security to operating crews who arrive via the staff security channels. One particular airline is receiving multiple complaints weekly from the operating crews due to the attitude of the Security staff to the operating crew of a particular airline. Sadly, the airport management are so aloof to the issue that very little will change.
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Old 20th Jun 2018, 12:03
  #1760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Uk
Posts: 180
Anyone know why AA operated a 767 on the PHL route today as opposed to the standard 330?
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