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Manchester-2

Old 3rd Feb 2018, 15:23
  #921 (permalink)  
 
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+1 - very informative.
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Old 3rd Feb 2018, 22:04
  #922 (permalink)  
 
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Still on TK/Istanbul

I have also used TK via Istanbul to a couple of lesser African/ Mid East destinations in recent years, and have no complaints.
I think the problem they have is that TK has expanded very rapidly, whereas IST has not; I have experienced tedious holding which turned an ontime flight into a delayed arrival, and a hectic rush for the connection home, which I just made but my bag did not.
There is of course a new, larger, Istanbul airport due to open fairly soon, after which TKs hub may begin to resemble AMS or DXB rather than LHR; in the meantime I would echo the advice to ensure a generous transit time of at least 2-3 hrs when using TK via IST.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 07:38
  #923 (permalink)  
 
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Re the summer schedule list posted by Lax Lhr...... There is no saudi flight to Riyadh this summer . They are staying at 5 weekly just to Jeddah flying 787s .

Can anyone tell me when the AA to ord restarts please?

Thanks.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 07:48
  #924 (permalink)  
 
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I was told the RUH would be added at a later date? RUH load factors were higher than JED.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 08:01
  #925 (permalink)  
 
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India

Just an inkling of the sort of things MAN are doing to get that first route to India.

http://indiagbnews.com/enterprise/manchester-india-partnership-capitalise-global-trade-opportunities/
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 08:10
  #926 (permalink)  
 
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Dobbo Dobbo
Just an observation, but having done more EK flights over the last decade than I care to think ex MAN to DXB, a lot of fellow passengers use the route to access India, obviously among other places. If you start to see wide spread growth in India services (depending on carrier as I for one would definitely not use AI) you may see a drop in EK traffic, and maybe that fourth EK service will not materialise. Be careful what you wish for as the saying goes.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 08:19
  #927 (permalink)  
 
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Am I alone in wishing exactly that?

Diversity and choice is good for both airport and passenger.

I would rather see a new carrier have a stab at opening non-stop India, preferably aligned with one of the three global alliances, before EK consolidate their dominance further with a fourth rotation.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 09:21
  #928 (permalink)  
 
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But then HKG was a top connector for EK, and despite CX starting now daily flights and seemingly successful in their own right, it doesn’t seem to have impacted EK too much.

Don’t forget direct flights also stimulate their own growth.

Therefore I really fail to see how getting a direct DEL or BOM would be anything but a good thing.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 09:33
  #929 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Mr Mac

I think you are quite right, any Indian service (e.g. to DEL or BOM) would most likely cannibalise some passengers from the MEB3. It would make it harder for EK to introduce a 4th daily, harder for Oman to add a second daily, and harder for Qatar to get to triple daily.

My view is that daily (or something approximating) flights to BOM or DEL on a reputable airline is preferable to the above said increases by the MEB4. Each of them offer a good range of departure times and connecting opportunities, and I don't see what additional rotations add relative to a direct service. On a slightly wider but related point, I would rather see CX implement the proposed additional evening rotations (and SQ increase frequency) than additional MEB4 rotations. Just a personal preference.

HKG is a good example where it was thought CX would cannibalise from the MEB3 (at that time) and they probably did. However, events subsequent to that show the MEB3 (now MEB4) are stronger than ever.

MAN is, I think, an expanding long haul market. I expect we will see both in time.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 10:04
  #930 (permalink)  
 
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Is all competition good competition?

I think the discussion between Nr Mac and Dobbo Dobbo is a very interesting and important one; I am with Mr Mac in thinking that some potential new routes or airlines might have an overall negative impact.
A key factor is whether a new entrant is offering a lo-co style point to point product or an entree to a new hub with many onward connections. Thus anything which might limit the daily frequency on EK could disadvantage some of the huge number of people making onward connections whilst positively impacting only those flying to the single new destination.
In this respect CX would be good competition because they offer not just a way of getting to HKG, but many onward connections in Asia and Australasia.
Thinking of routes which could possibly experience "bad" competition, I guess Madrid and Lisbon spring to mind; if low cost competition forced out Iberia or TAP, many destinations in Africa, South and Central America would become much less accessible.
I think the current uncertainty surrounding links from BHX to the US may be a live example of this phenomenon.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 11:01
  #931 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LAX_LHR View Post
I was told the RUH would be added at a later date? RUH load factors were higher than JED.
I received the 1st version of there Man summer schedule this morning and theirs no Riyadh flight on it...... I hope its added later but im somewhat doubtful!
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 11:12
  #932 (permalink)  
 
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Emirates are big enough and ugly enough to combat potential threats from the inept and politically interfered with Indian carriers.

The fourth flight will start when they have sufficient slots aircraft demand and a developing fourth bank in Dubai.

Loss of a few dozen to direct flights won’t make a significant difference to their timeframe imho.

I wrote above about the effects of Chinese political interference and associated goals on the aviation industry.

India also has political interference and pretty tough bilaterals effecting the industry more so that commercial and market lead forces.

Air India fly where Modi’s henchman tells them to, just look at Birmingham to Delhi the flight performed well enough and offered quality regional connections one stop over Delhi however political pressure has made Amritsar a first stop on several flights a week over commercial common sense.

Jet have lost focus under Etihad

And every other potential carrier has been deliberately hamstrung by rules to protect Air India such mimimum fleet sizes before long haul purchases/leases can even be considered.

Archaic seating capacity limits (not frequency limits) continue to be imposed on many bilateral treaties. These remain in place between India and the UK and result in rather limited growth potential for direct flights in reality. Similar limits are imposed between India and UAE

This is far cry from the Openskys approach.

In fact it’s a seriously negative pressure on opening new destinations period!

Such seat capacity limits ensure you maximise your current portfolio by definition.

Whilst writing I can’t believe Air India really makes money with a 77L between Bangalore and San Francisco carrying a few computer techies what ever others think on the other very blue site.

Last edited by Rutan16; 4th Feb 2018 at 11:30.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 11:35
  #933 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by steve platt View Post
Re the summer schedule list posted by Lax Lhr...... There is no saudi flight to Riyadh this summer . They are staying at 5 weekly just to Jeddah flying 787s .

Can anyone tell me when the AA to ord restarts please?

Thanks.
Next flight to O’Hare is scheduled for 8th June with a 788
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 12:22
  #934 (permalink)  
 
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Question Easy extra aircraft

Anybody know what's happened to the extra 5 aircraft that were on allegedly planned for this summer? I thought they were supposed to be announced on 02 FEB.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 12:31
  #935 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by steve platt View Post
I received the 1st version of there Man summer schedule this morning and theirs no Riyadh flight on it...... I hope its added later but im somewhat doubtful!
The slots are still open and I was told it wouldn’t be added to the schedule until about April/May at earliest. Starting end of June again.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 12:32
  #936 (permalink)  
 
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The announcement 2nd Feb was to do with the A320NEO as it is doing a tour of UK major
bases at present
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 14:40
  #937 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by golf yankee one one View Post
I think the discussion between Nr Mac and Dobbo Dobbo is a very interesting and important one; I am with Mr Mac in thinking that some potential new routes or airlines might have an overall negative impact.
A key factor is whether a new entrant is offering a lo-co style point to point product or an entree to a new hub with many onward connections. Thus anything which might limit the daily frequency on EK could disadvantage some of the huge number of people making onward connections whilst positively impacting only those flying to the single new destination.
In this respect CX would be good competition because they offer not just a way of getting to HKG, but many onward connections in Asia and Australasia.
BKK is a classic example of this. TG would be great, but someone like Nokscoot, or even TCX, not so much.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 14:57
  #938 (permalink)  
 
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TG have been talking about MAN for at least 25 years because I went to a launch dinner in Manchester one year and I have been out of travel 15 years so don`t expect
them in a hurry.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 15:19
  #939 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly - TG's an example.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 17:53
  #940 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
This appears to be a rant about THY cunningly masquerading as Manchester news. Can we get back to the Chinese thread which I thought was quite interesting.
Are you for real?
I post an up to date contemporary piece of real life experience about an airline that flies to Manchester from a city connected twice a day to Manchester on the Manchester thread of Airlines, Airports and Routes and you somehow think it's not relevant. Instead you prefer fantasist waffle about airlines that don't fly to Manchester from cities not connected to Manchester? Ah well fair enough but with all due respect WTF do you know about flying every week out of Manchester Airport sat behind your keyboard in rural East Anglia?
It's people like me and the other minority of other posters on here that 'walk the walk' instead of 'talking the talk' who fly these routes that most here only fantasize about. It's our patronage that makes these routes work and leaves open the possibility of the fantasy routes that people here talk about. If you don't want to know what really goes on in the real world, then feel free to ignore.

For those who might be interested.....in China, following the previous discussion....
Hainan
I've flown this route 5 times now - 3 outbound and 2 inbound. I've done the A330 and the Dreamliner. I can see why it is not the stellar success that was predicted. On the three outbounds I've flown, the C-Cabin had less punters each time, the last time it was less than half full and I think this is where it struggles.
Although the operation is slick and works well at the MAN end and the in-fight is pretty good (although the service is a bit wooden and stilted) it becomes apparent on landing in Beijing that Hainan is not China's poster child. Instead of arriving at the world-class Norman Foster designed T3 you end up parked at the old Peking Airport T2 complex and even then remotely parked. It's around a 20 minute bus ride to the terminal.This gives a very powerful reminder of just how prestigious (not) the route is to the Chinese. Being on a 'business class' shuttle bus with your fellow C-Class Manchester travelers, you can hear most are complaining about one thing or another and saying they're going back to Lufthansa or Finnair (*A awards are often mentioned) but the most common complaint is the arrival experience.

If like me you have a connecting flight over in T3, you have to exit the terminal and get on another bus which takes you out on the road network and around another 20 minutes later lands you at T3.
The return leg is worse being in the middle of the night. At first they didn't open check-in until 2 hours before departure meaning you had to sit on a hard floor waiting around with no F&B provision (this appears to have changed now). One time, the entire Hainan check-in system wouldn't work for them until about 1-5 hours before departure.
Frankly, I think the best chance of Beijing being the success it could be is Air China....ditto Shanghai - you get your Star points and arrive at a proper terminal.
FWIW, I'll be heading that way again in May...with Lufthansa.
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