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Manchester-2

Old 20th Nov 2019, 09:18
  #3601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Nostoodian View Post
Great news, but Juneyao really need to aim to go direct as soon as possible. I don't understand why they couldn't have started with thrice weekly direct flights instead of routing through Helsinki. Must say I'm quite disappointed. Can anyone explain their logic?

Why would you choose to fly with Juneyao (who aren't very well known) over other airlines flying via hubs to Shanghai? Lots of competition on the Shanghai route from Manchester. Anyone know how long the stopover is in Helsinki? How does the travel time to Shanghai going via Helsinki compare with other hub airlines?

I always think it's a bit of a cop out when airlines & airports market routes as being direct, when they're not.
I would imagine because it changes the economics of the route as you can partially offset the costs with HEL-MAN passengers (as it appears to be fifth freedom), and then on the long haul bit passengers from HEL-PVG eat some of the costs, too.

As you say, they are unknown. Direct means charging a premium. If you're unknown, you can't do that. So you test the water gently.

There are other factors which may play. Unknown to western audiences, but not necessarily Chinese audiences. Filled with tour groups, perhaps, who appreciate direct (though not non-stop) on a carrier that speaks their language. And to the large diaspora/student group at the UK end, to them perhaps the brand is not unknown. The stop is, I would imagine, going to be an hour. Helsinki to China is a fairly efficient routing so I would be surprised if it killed the timing too much.

Would you also say that Manchester doesn't have a flight to Addis Ababa because it stops in Brussels first? Or, if they still exist, the hops on the end of Caribbean flights?

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Old 20th Nov 2019, 09:32
  #3602 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Scotland
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A dummy booking on the Juneyao website shows a stop of 2.5 hours.
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 09:39
  #3603 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oban, Scotland
Posts: 1,184
If they were flying direct, they would fly over Helsinki, since that's the Great Circle route. Using the ME hubs adds to the distance.
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 09:54
  #3604 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by ld0595 View Post
A dummy booking on the Juneyao website shows a stop of 2.5 hours.
That seems quite a lengthy stop, I would imagine this gets fettled down. On Ethiopian's routine fifth freedom milk run routes the stops are rarely that long - usually just over an hour.
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 10:16
  #3605 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Northwich
Posts: 41
Whilst Juneyao dithers, other airlines for example Virgin or maybe a different Chinese Airline might jump ahead of the queue before them with a direct flight. To my knowledge, didn't Virgin just announce a new codeshare with a Chinese Airline?
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 11:04
  #3606 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: stockport
Posts: 159
From memory China only lets one Chinese airline per route and as they are basically all owned by the government with private financing
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Old 20th Nov 2019, 11:58
  #3607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 69
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For those who are interested I am attaching the latest update from the MANTP Team - to whom full credit is given.

Part 1










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Old 20th Nov 2019, 11:59
  #3608 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Part 2












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Old 22nd Nov 2019, 17:07
  #3609 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 69
Posts: 926
Manchester Statistics - October 2019

Destinations that are either new (no passengers since my records started in January 2005), or have not been served for a number of years - if the latter then the month and year of the last service is shown.

No new destinations were included in October

Million passenger routes (Rolling annual figures)
Amsterdam - 1,061,781 passengers

The following domestic statistics are missing from the CAA report for October.
Aberdeen, Belfast City, Glasgow, and Guernsey whose total passengers, in 2018, totaled 56,355

Moving monthly and annual figures - based on CAA statistics/MAG statistics
Monthly passengers – 2,505,175 -1.86%
Annual Total – 19,980,245 +4.20%
Moving Annual Total - 29,483,197 +4.81%

Monthly Movements – 17,737 -2.50%
Annual Movements – 132,993 +1.56%
Moving Annual Movements – 203,724 +1.61%

Manchester Airport's October statistics


Top 25 destinations - by passenger numbers


Top destinations with highest percentage increase.


Figures for the European and long-haul destinations that I consider to be the main points for our connecting traffic.

Istanbul figures are affected by the start of the Pegasus service to Sabiha Gokcen airport. The combined figures for both airports gives an increase of 61.8% over the same month last year.
New York (JFK) – Although the monthly figures is down by 17,391 one must remember that Thomas Cook in September had carried 12,558 passengers until their sad demise on 23rd September.

Comparison of top 31 destinations - October 2009 versus October 2019


Major changes to Domestic traffic


Load factors analysis on certain routes
Scottie Dog is online now  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 00:14
  #3610 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Nyc
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by boredintheairport View Post
I would imagine because it changes the economics of the route as you can partially offset the costs with HEL-MAN passengers (as it appears to be fifth freedom), and then on the long haul bit passengers from HEL-PVG eat some of the costs, too.

As you say, they are unknown. Direct means charging a premium. If you're unknown, you can't do that. So you test the water gently.

There are other factors which may play. Unknown to western audiences, but not necessarily Chinese audiences. Filled with tour groups, perhaps, who appreciate direct (though not non-stop) on a carrier that speaks their language. And to the large diaspora/student group at the UK end, to them perhaps the brand is not unknown. The stop is, I would imagine, going to be an hour. Helsinki to China is a fairly efficient routing so I would be surprised if it killed the timing too much.

Would you also say that Manchester doesn't have a flight to Addis Ababa because it stops in Brussels first? Or, if they still exist, the hops on the end of Caribbean flights?
I think we can be pretty confident that 吉祥航空 is almost as unknown in China as it is in England.

Fingers crossed they will succeed anyway.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 17:46
  #3611 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: stockport
Posts: 159
Thats funny as they have a fleet of almost 70 short haul aircraft and have carried somewhere in region of 18M pax so no way are they a small operator
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 18:13
  #3612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Northwich
Posts: 41
I think the main problem with starting direct long haul routes into Asia from Manchester is the stiff competition you're up against. You've got the following hub airlines going East: Emirates X 3, Qatar x 3, Etihad x 2, Turkish X 2, Oman Air, British Airways, Pegasus, Lufthansa, Air France & Swiss etc.

Price, frequency, timing, Air Miles & product all play a big part. It's a hard nut to crack. I was critical of Juneyao to start with for their meager offering out of Manchester, but the more I think about it, the more their strategy makes good business sense.
Nostoodian is online now  
Old 28th Nov 2019, 18:22
  #3613 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: stockport
Posts: 159
Don`t forget they have 5th freedom from to HEL ex MAN so nothing to stop anyone connecting on to the many
flights from/to HEL to Asia
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 19:13
  #3614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North, UK
Age: 62
Posts: 911
They are also a Star Alliance Connections Partner airline
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 20:51
  #3615 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by pwalhx View Post
They are also a Star Alliance Connections Partner airline
Appears a bit odd then, as the HEL-PVG is Also a code share with Finnair -a One World airline.

Also with 5th freedom on the MAN-HEL this might impact the AY offering.

I'm a user of the Finnair from MAN to HKG and I'd be disappointed in any negative impact on the AY service.
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Old 29th Nov 2019, 20:30
  #3616 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 69
Posts: 926
For those who are interested here is a cut down version of update #118 courtesy of the MANTP Team,towho full credit is given.













Scottie Dog is online now  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 11:22
  #3617 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 69
Posts: 926
November statistics are now out.

Allowing for the loss of Thomas Cook it is not too surprising that numbers are down and, in my opinion a reduction of less than 28,000 is pretty tame.

Scottie Dog is online now  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 13:09
  #3618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: scotland
Posts: 719
Is there still plans for MAN to have a US Pre-Clearance as not seen anything more about it.
goldeneye is online now  
Old 4th Dec 2019, 13:14
  #3619 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 69
Posts: 926
I've not seen any update on this for some years and I think it possibly has been dropped from the plans.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 20:00
  #3620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CEG
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Scottie Dog View Post
I've not seen any update on this for some years and I think it possibly has been dropped from the plans.
The airport confirmed to me in a tweet today that: "we may still introduce US pre-clearance in the future but currently the airport community do not believe that the benefits it would bring can justify the resulting increase in ticket prices".
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