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Old 21st Sep 2018, 14:44
  #2361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
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Originally Posted by FFMAN View Post
In terms of the road rage insident, I too sympathize with the perpetrator. I'm sure he's a perfectly normal sane, rational human being in the real world. The trouble is Manchester Airport is not the real world - it turns normal, sane, rational people into stressed out monsters. capable of violence. Everybody has a breaking point.
The only pressure that will count in the long run is pressure from airlines and concessionaires. As far as MAN is concerned the passengers are below sh!te and are there to be fleeced, shouted at, abused, have snide remarks made at them and basically treated as a commodity.
In fact I would say in mitigation - 'extreme provocation' by the airport management
Give yer head a shake...

Well said LAX_LHR
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 15:02
  #2362 (permalink)  
 
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Also says a lot that clearly some of you are willing to come to the airport and extoll violence against airport staff, and then wonder why they are miserable. If I had to deal with some people like I’ve seen commenting about this, I’d be miserable and rude in return too.

While clearly some people aren’t designed for customer service (and they need to be dealt with individually) Maybe look at yourself. Given some are insinuating they would do the same as this man and have sympathy, tells me the problem is them, and their anger issues rather than the staff. And for that, I’ve put some people on ignore as you simply cannot reason with people who advocate and justify violence just because of, in the grand scheme of things, small issues.

i honestly didn’t think this thread could sink any lower, clearly I was wrong. This is no longer a news and rumour thread, it’s a long, running joke where people get wound up and rant over pointless sh*t.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 15:11
  #2363 (permalink)  
 
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Paint double red lines, install ANPR and a big sign saying an illegal parking/pick up/drop offs will incur an automatic £60 fine, there you've been told!
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 15:23
  #2364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I don't see what the judge thinks about drop-off charges is relevant. He's there to apply the law, not to give personal opinions, and this driver got off very lightly in my view. But I'm shocked that some appear to be empathising with this bloke for allegedly being provoked. A few strong words to express your displeasure maybe but to continue driving with a man on the car bonnet for several hundred yards? Come on!

In this instance, the drop-off charges - whether or not justified - were fairly well trailed in the media. Whether they are clearly shown as you enter the drop-off zone, I don't know.

This is not to say that the system as it is being applied is OK. If there are issues with pay machines, drivers being made to pay more than the £3 because of poor lane lay-out and congestion, then MAN needs to get it sorted. And drivers will not use the free bus system if there is a risk of a long wait because buses are full.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 16:28
  #2365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Ignore if you wish LAX - that's your choice but it won't change the underlying problem.
The problem is that, despite well documented problems like this throughout recent times, the airport does the same as you, it 'puts people on ignore', It's much easier than having to actually deal with the problems that have racked up over time. Your cxomment 'maybe look at yourself' is also emblematic of MAN's attitude - it's the customer's fault (or somebody else's - not ours / never our fault).

The point I am making is that as aviation continues its race to the bottom of the pit, there are consequences and one of those consequences is that people will get pushed beyond their breaking points so don't be surprised at that. I'm not condoning it I'm just saying I can understand why it happens and will happen again until the management stops treating passengers as the enemy.
The once tolerable airport experience is becoming increasingly intolerable.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 17:47
  #2366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manchester
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I too feel compelled to express my surprise (putting it lightly) of the judges comments and the empathy shown towards the perpetrator. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever to risk someones life. Had this been some boy racer on a public road there would have been an outcry. The fact is, you may or may not like the drop off charge but it is Manchester Airport's prerogative to impose it. If you don't like it then you can express that through a complaint or by using an airport that doesn't have a drop off fee. The Marshaller has a job to do and in no way, shape or form should he have to come to work fearing that he may be assaulted, injured or even killed...... the latter could have been a distinct outcome. To condone that behaviour is a sad inditement on todays society.

Neither should that Marshaller face such repercussions because of the wider issues that the airport suffers from. And yes, there are fundamental issues affecting the airport, there are no arguments from me. I am certainly no apologist but I am a stickler for balance and I have used MAN countless times and had nothing but a indifferent to good experience. I've had one terrible experience with security staff that clearly embarrassed her colleagues in T3 but other than that my experiences with security personnel has been fine. Sure, you have some shouting (may appear as barking) of instructions by they have to get the message across to many people. You get that in the US to a far worse extent in my opinion.

MAN does however have a significant problem at various times of the day in processing passengers and we have seen some intolerable experiences, particularly at first wave!

The T1 gate experiences are horrible but the departure lounge is reasonably nice and for many of the clientele (bucket and spaders) they really like the retail experience, it's part of the holiday experience.

MAN's PR team could be a little more contrite rather than just blaming other factors. Explain the factors by all means but apologise more for it. But, at the same time...... when there are failings at, for example, Swissport they should highlight where the failure lies. That is only right.

Personal opinion on drop off fee, there is a free option. If you don't want to use it then pay £3. Many of MAN users don't use the airport on a regular basis. Just pay it rather than standing on traffic islands. It's 3 quid......however much you dislike it.
Fact is, we all fly much cheaper than we used to (and more often as a consequence) and something has to give. Anecdotally, you come across people who feel they have been robbed by paying £150 return to Alicante! It costs me £5.50 off peak to travel 7 miles into Central Manchester!

I most certainly don't want to appear an apologist of the airport, there are certainly problems but I do think some do in fact lay it on thick when there are indeed countless journeys that are nothing but passable to good. Like I say...... i'm a stickler for balance.

But again, regardless of the problems the airport has, no one has the right to risk the life of others! If the consensus is that they do.....i think i might just give up now.
easyflyer83 is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2018, 17:55
  #2367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
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I'm not the judge and I don't condone the actions. But the point in there is that the Manchester Airport policy is enough to drive even a mild-mannered individual to road rage. Having experienced Manchester several times this summer, the car hire process is now a nightmare; the taxi pick-up point for arriving customers at T3 is a nightmare; security at T3 is amongst the worst of any UK airport rivalled only by EMA and STN (who runs those?) and the airside departures area in T3 is overcrowded, dirty and awful. No-one can sanction this bloke's actions. But you can understand them, and this should act as a further wake-up call to MAG management to take a long, hard look at what they are doing - or not doing. A change of management and mentality is urgently required for the sanity of all of their customers.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:06
  #2368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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I don’t agree with the mans actions, driving with someone on your bonnet is a complete no go and shouldn’t have happened. But why would a person risk their life to stop an road rage idiot I certainly wouldn’t. Unfortunately there is a Huge staff pax bully culture. And from arriving from the parking Marshall’s to handling agents, customer services and security goad pax and push and push them and then we get them onboard kicking off. All this comes down to is the shocking management of this airport. I fly from a range of European airports weekly and I’ve never seen such poor services. You might only see it as £3 but then you have fast track etc all squeezing you for every penny without any improvement. Yesterday at 7pm outside T3 traffic was horrific backing all the way up to styal road ! And then you’re pay in for problems they’ve caused. Not to mention parking pax in staff car parks ! Absolute joke. Judging by the replies most people aren’t flying through the airport as a passenger very often. Because trust me twice a week as a passenger you begin to wonder why anybody or any airline is flying from here.

Last edited by Manezytom; 21st Sep 2018 at 18:19.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:20
  #2369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manchester
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Flightrider.... no, no, no. You cannot understand his actions. His actions were not rational. Are you saying that itís ok to partake in road rage? Because thatís what this was. Are you really saying that if you enrage a fellow motorist (and weíve all done that unintentionally) then they have the right to get out and lamp you one?

Just 24 hours ago we were all enraged at the baggage handling video and rightly so. It was appalling! But out of the two incidents there is one that is ten times as bad as the other..... and itís not the one involving bags. Bags, manís life, bags??? Yet some of you are effectively saying the bag incident was worse.

ManezyTom I use the airport mainly with work but I also use it quite a bit in my own time. Iím blessed with holidays and have travel vlog.... but then you already know that. ;-)
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:23
  #2370 (permalink)  
 
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I'm going to have to disagree with you Lax.
He didn't nearly kill someone. The report clearly states that.
I have every bit of sympathy with the driver. Some of the officials at MAN have a superiority complex. They do not talk to people, they bark. it winds peope up, its not necessary.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:27
  #2371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you Lax.
He didn't nearly kill someone. The report clearly states that.
I have every bit of sympathy with the driver. Some of the officials at MAN have a superiority complex. They do not talk to people, they bark. it winds peope up, its not necessary.
There are inherent dangers in driving with someone on the bonnet. It was not ok.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:43
  #2372 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you Lax.
He didn't nearly kill someone. The report clearly states that.
I have every bit of sympathy with the driver. Some of the officials at MAN have a superiority complex. They do not talk to people, they bark. it winds peope up, its not necessary.
Turin,

Iím not sure how else you could interpret Ďdriving several hundred metresí with someone on the bonnet. He was only stopped on the M56 by the police, this man clearly had a fit of rage and was capable of anything. Interesting that Iíve seen several comments about the man behind the wheel, stating Ďbased on my dealings with him, Iím not surprisedí.

what ever you think about the airport, these actions are completely unjustifiable. Completely and totally. Would love To see how sympathetic some of you would be if it was you clinging to the bonnet of a car for dear life for merely enforcing a work place rule. Can all act better in hindsight, canít we?

for this reason to, Iím coming off this forum now. Personal attacks are one thing, moaning about an airport experience is also fine, although annoying, but, to pretty much justify what this driver has done for the sake of a £3 drop off charge is unpalatable and not a community I want to be part of. To see what this guy has done and almost come off as the victim is just bizarre and shows how low this forum has become. Rumours and news? Nah, moaning and justifying a near case of manslaughter to boost an anti-airport agenda, enjoy.
LAX_LHR is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:43
  #2373 (permalink)  
 
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that people will get pushed beyond their breaking points
the Manchester Airport policy is enough to drive even a mild-mannered individual to road rage.
Reading the report of the case, he knew before he set off about the drop off charge, knew it was time limited, saw an open gate, took a chance and when he was blocked drove off with somebody on his bonnet for several hundred yards - think about that, think about how long it takes to drive a car several hundred yards - and then when stopped by the police just before he reached the motorway (well done to them, btw) then tried to reverse to try and get away.

So no excuses, no martyr to sub-human airport treatment just another chancer who got caught.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 19:52
  #2374 (permalink)  
 
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I said earlier that the actions could not be condoned or supported. They cannot and absolutely not. Itís not acceptable. But can you understand how this happened? The judge ostensibly could.

If MAG management cannot then the problem runs very deep in Manchester Airport. Time for a change of management based on all of the evidence. The airport has become so utterly offensive to use that those with no choice are being driven (no pun intended) to quite uncharacteristic levels of angst about the way they are being treated. I count myself as one very unhappy user of the airport but (hopefully) able to control my output.

Laxlhr, all forums users would be better served if you relayed this to your management rather than absolving yourself from the discussion. I donít know who you are but youíve also no idea who I am. Who knows, we may take a different view of each other if we did. We may each be in positions of influence to change things for the good. The situation at MAN is, in my view, sufficiently bad as to warrant some consideration.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 20:55
  #2375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 112
The facts are that the parking charges were published months before implementation. Anyone arriving at the airport and wanting to drop of at a particular terminal see IF THEY OPEN THEIR EYES , the charges before they enter the drop off point. As someone who drives daily at the airport I can say the charges have reduced congestion and have made my life easier. Even so I still see on a daily basis people who still stop in the middle of the road to drop people/pick up without any regard to others. Your inconsideration has led to where we are today.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 21:58
  #2376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
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The implication from a number of recent posters is that the judge condoned or let off lightly the car driver because of his (the judge's) opinion about drop off charges.
In fact the car driver was found guilty, does now have a criminal record and was sentenced to a suspended six month prison sentence - a fairly severe penalty for a (assumed) first time offender. There must be a significant possibility that he will lose his job as a teacher.
The judge's other comments should be seen against this background.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 22:21
  #2377 (permalink)  
 
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Well that escalated quickly.
I was disagreeing with the point about nearly killing someone. The report states that was not the case. I made no personal attacks or condoned the actions of the driver but I can understand him losing it. I have experienced some of Manchester's staff and diplomacy and tact is not a stong point. There is no need for any of this.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 23:17
  #2378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Manchester
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Why are we also assuming the marshaller was being rude or aggressive?
If someone has had bad experiences with staff that is fine but there is nothing to say that this marshaller was anything but professional. I donít know.... I wasnít there. Iím sure none of you guys were there either. So why are we assuming that he contributed to himself being put in danger by a guy who thought it was acceptable to drive off with a person on his car bonnet??

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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 08:43
  #2379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by Manezytom View Post
no wonder no new airlines want to open ops here because itís absolutely shi*e apologies for the language but what used to be a good airport has now become a joke and is only used by people because of convenience.
It's one thing to criticise the airport for its failings and inefficiencies - with some justification - but it strikes me the aviation business development section has been doing rather well. It may have escaped your attention even as a twice weekly user of the airport that Jet Airways and Ethiopian are soon starting flights from MAN with expectations there will be a route to Guangzhou in the not too distant future. Then there are other airlines increasing the number of aircraft based at MAN this winter and next summer. Of course, increasing numbers of passengers means more challenges for management. If that happens, time will tell how they deal with it, given that full completion of the TP is still 6 years away.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 10:45
  #2380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Manchester
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Bet people can't wait for Jet Airways to start :https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/passen...-air-pressure/

Arriving into T1 last night ,bussed from remote you are greeted with non working escalator up to passport control. Later you will find all walkways in the skylink turned off - only the blue rain water buckets are "operational".
Sure these are not critical things- but it shows an airport that has lost it's care- lost it's Northern Pride. Things like this are fixable now, like the constant dirty toilets, broken cubicle locks, broken cubicle coat hooks. Baggage gate is another well publicised issue gone viral worldwide,and the security fiasco that produces good service one day & chaos the next despite having the data available to match supply and demand.
The drop off charge hasn't really resolved anything and the free drop system is under resorced.All these are in the airport gift to fix now- not in TP +6 years. Either the management is in denial or just doesn't care - the customer experience appears very very low down the agenda with the jam tomorrow statement being the answer to everything.
Many comments always relate to the holidaymaker and how they will soon forget their once a year experience etc etc. However, if you want to retain your CX, SIA, HU etc then you also need to cater for your premium pax or you will lose them. My colleague is now using LHR instead of MAN for his CX flights purely due to MAN experiences. My own last CX ticket cost me over £4.5K at those prices I don't expect special treatment- just that things work properly and passenger service levels are met.
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