Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Manchester-2

Old 23rd Aug 2018, 09:47
  #2241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 69
Posts: 890
[QUOTE=Mr A Tis;10231331] However, Qatar at MAN for some reason were directing a lot of people this way (my suspicion was actually a problem with the check in desk baggage belt at the Qatar desks).
/QUOTE]

There is major work taking place in the T2 baggage hall which could be affecting the QR belts. Still no excuse for not having sufficient alternative facilities.
Scottie Dog is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2018, 18:34
  #2242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 21
Terminal 1. Just returned from Zurich yesterday evening on Swiss. Landed at 18.05. Bags were on the conveyor as soon as we got there and made the 1847 Trans Pennine train home. Yes, it is a messy airport, especially as we had to go down some steps to go back up some more a short way later to get to the Border controls!
However, please excuse my ignorance but I cannot find out what improvements are currently under construction and what are the plans beyond that are. If someone could please explain what exactly is going on, I would be grateful. Most airports seem to shout loudly about what they are doing but Manchester seems to keep this all secret. Thanks in advance.
Robin757 is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2018, 19:09
  #2243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: EGCC
Age: 69
Posts: 890
Robin757

Do a search for Manchester Airport Transformation Programme (MANTP) for more information. The first part of the Terminal 2 expansion project opens in April 2019 when Pier 1 is commissioned. The Terminal 2 extension will not however open until 2020.

As far as your "up and down" experience is concerned this is out of the airport's control. Originally both arriving and departing passengers could mingle within the pier system. Legislation now requires that they be segregated, hence the convoluted routing - the Terminal was nitvdesigned for that style of operation.
Scottie Dog is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 07:32
  #2244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 939
July saw 94% of passengers clearing security under 15 minutes with 70% having no delay. Average time roughly 4 and a half minutes. The issue at Manchester is not the airport or personnel but rather the users. So if you are persistently delayed, maybe you should look at yourself to see what you are doing wrong when the overwhelming majority of passengers appear to have no problems.
Ringwayman is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 08:07
  #2245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,190
So laughable Ringway man - which department are you working in? I guess the number of tea & biscuit chats by a number of airline bosses, the CAA & The Dept of Transport with MAN managers have had an effect after all.
I notice you are not mentioning June in your comments.
Mr A Tis is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 08:51
  #2246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Yorkshire Dales
Posts: 21
Thank you to those who answered my query about developments at Manchester. Scottie Dog - you might be amused to know that when we arrived at Zurich two weeks before we passed a departure gate into the departure lounge, mingling with departure passengers before disappearing into a sideways passage to Swiss border controls and baggage reclaim.
Whatever the problems at Manchester my wife infinitely prefers it to Heathrow or Gatwick and for us on the Trans Pennine rail route, it is normally very easy to get to and from the airport. The basic fact is that where ever you go in the world now there are just more people!
Robin757 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 08:57
  #2247 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,042
Mr A Tis, I don't think we can assume that the improvement in July was solely due to pressure from inside the industry although I expect it was a factor. For example, do we know if the planned increase in season security staff was only planned for the peak summer period or did it occur earlier? Staff rosters had caused some unrest - was that resolved and resulted in greater efficiency? Had some equipment been unserviceable and came back into use with more lanes open?

And while I realise some contributors believe that MAN doesn't care a fig about customers' experience, is it not conceivable that management did listen and take notice of valid criticisms and bad publicity in the media?

That's not to say previous problems were excusable, but at least it's good to see an improvement. Let's hope it is maintained.
MANFOD is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 10:36
  #2248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 2,659
So if you are persistently delayed, maybe you should look at yourself to see what you are doing wrong when the overwhelming majority of passengers appear to have no problems.]
Unbelievable arrogance!
I know people who are seasoned travellers, know the rules, behave accordingly, but continue to be treated shabily by MAN. Security is the biggest problem. Not enough staff on, rude and unsympathetic.

Get your head out of you're arse. If you really are involved and in a position to do something about it, then get to it, spend some time fixing the problem instead of moaning at the customers on internet forums.
TURIN is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 10:42
  #2249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,166
I agree, that is one of the most extraordinary posts I’ve read on here. If it is in any way indicative of MAG management views, and I hope it is not, then it goes a long way towards laying bare the root cause of the problems - attitude.

Recent transit through T3 last week was less bad than previous but still poor at security and airside areas heavily congested. Much work still to do. I’d have marked it as poor, one up from terrible on my preceding visits.
Flightrider is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 13:19
  #2250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bramhall
Age: 45
Posts: 37
Reading this forum it appears that if there is arrogance anywhere it’s from the frequent users (pax and staff) that seem to think a red carpet should be rolled out before them, rather than having to mix with the commoners. Even more arrogance is then shown by thinking anybody reading an airport forum wants to listen to their constant carping, which is not borne out by the stats (Luton and Stansted are worse. Heathrow in the news for weeks of 4hr+ delays recently) . Then the final, supreme arrogance in assuming anybody recounting a positive experience is either an airport spokesman in disguise or is just benefitting from all the interminable whining that the regular suspects have deposited ( like a steaming dog turd) in this forum.

There is is a massive project ongoing to fix the issues, which surely means there is no arrogance? Except some on here think it’s arrogant to think that spending vast sums of money will fix a problem. Can’t win it seems.
Turtle controller is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 13:39
  #2251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by Turtle controller View Post
Reading this forum it appears that if there is arrogance anywhere it’s from the frequent users (pax and staff) that seem to think a red carpet should be rolled out before them, rather than having to mix with the commoners. Even more arrogance is then shown by thinking anybody reading an airport forum wants to listen to their constant carping, which is not borne out by the stats (Luton and Stansted are worse. Heathrow in the news for weeks of 4hr+ delays recently) . Then the final, supreme arrogance in assuming anybody recounting a positive experience is either an airport spokesman in disguise or is just benefitting from all the interminable whining that the regular suspects have deposited ( like a steaming dog turd) in this forum.

There is is a massive project ongoing to fix the issues, which surely means there is no arrogance? Except some on here think it’s arrogant to think that spending vast sums of money will fix a problem. Can’t win it seems.
Security at MAN was a total bin over Spring and early Summer. It's improved in recent weeks but still is pretty poor by the standards of the airports I use (which don't include STN and LTN admittedly but does include EDI, LHR, CDG and a multitude of other European airports).

The ongoing project is great news but I feel (as I've said before) that we're in the same place that LHR was in about 2005. The upcoming investment (enlarged T2 in this case, T5 in that case) is used to excuse things being very poor in the meantime. The attitude of the customer facing staff in both cases didn't help. Shouting loudly at queues seems to have become the norm in MAN security areas. I don't think any staff are doing it maliciously but it doesn't half make the area feel stressed and unpleasant. Everything at MAN feels very stretched at the moment and I don't think it's entirely down to lack of physical infrastructure. I have never, ever, ever seen all of the security lanes at T3 open and I've been through at least 25 times in the last year - often on Friday evenings, Monday mornings and other 'peak' times.
GSM763 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 13:53
  #2252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Wales
Posts: 1
I live some 120 miles away from this airport and use it up to a dozen times a year, with all sort of carriers and equipment at all times of the day, over many years now. It is admittedly very busy at the moment but I have never had to wait more than 20 minutes at either security or baggage over all those years, and have never found any employees to be surly or rude.

I have however witnessed rude and surely passengers who have no idea about the complexities behind their border and security rolls. On my last visit to MAN I had in front of me a passenger who created such a loud scene when she accused the scanner equipment/personnel of loosing her passport and boarding card, and when, after an exhaustive search of the ‘catch alls’ underneath the moving belts, nothing was found, she discovered the items in one of her inside pockets! A cursory nod to the officials ensued, then she picked up her belongings and disappeared….no apologies….nothing….unbelievable! That one was 20miutes!!

Interestingly when I raised my eyebrows and smiled at the guy who had taken all the shouting and flack dealing with this (calmly I might add) he told me this was such common occurrence. More interestingly he informed me that at least once a week a ‘mystery passenger’ with a banned item (sometimes as small a lipstick) deliberately passes through each terminal's security, and if the infringement is not spotted and challenged, the X-ray operator is immediately taken off duty and disciplined or usually sacked!

So, cut these guys some slack will you? :-))

I count myself as lucky having such a facility within a couple of hours of my home and without it would face the long trip to the London terminals.
Nelson42 is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 13:57
  #2253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,190
With the greatest respect Turtle you miss the point entirely.
What is the point in spending a billion if it will not be any better? Manchester does not staff the existing security channels now. Manchester does not fix exit doors that have been u/s in T1 & T3 for weeks- if not longer. Is it acceptable to wait one hour for the extra security bag desk? Is it acceptable to wait 30 minutes for fast track security?
To blame the passenger for delays beggars belief.
In the last 3 weeks I have passed through Manchester, Helsinki, Tallinn, Vilnius, Oslo, Riga, Dublin & Southend airports- The ONLY holdups I have had anywhere is in Manchester.
Nobody is asking for a red carpet- just that they treat people with respect.
My colleague is VP at a giant global company based in HKG. He travels constantly around the globe in all continents. His only hassle is at MAN and I cannot repeat the texts that he has sent me about our airport. He has in fact just this week re-arranged his next European tour schedule so that he visits the UK using CX out of T3 at LHR purely to avoid this place.
The fact that certain airlines, the DfT & the CAA have had words speaks for itself.
- Anyway, I shall give this Manchester mutual appreciation thread a rest for a while now & leave you all to grumble about your customers that pay your wages. Goodbye.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2018/08/luton-named-worst-uk-airport-for-the-third-year-running/

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-baggage-reclaim-bags-15071778

Last edited by Mr A Tis; 25th Aug 2018 at 10:42.
Mr A Tis is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 22:07
  #2254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: MCT
Posts: 836
I guess the number of tea & biscuit chats by a number of airline bosses, the CAA & The Dept of Transport with MAN managers have had an effect after all.
Blimey - but things can't be that bad if biscuits were involved
Suzeman is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2018, 22:26
  #2255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 2,659
More interestingly he informed me that at least once a week a ‘mystery passenger’ with a banned item (sometimes as small a lipstick) deliberately passes through each terminal's security, and if the infringement is not spotted and challenged, the X-ray operator is immediately taken off duty and disciplined or usually sacked!
Indeed. I have been told they operate a '3 strikes and you're out' policy. Management by fear. No wonder the staff are edgy. What a great way to run a business.

Last edited by TURIN; 25th Aug 2018 at 09:52.
TURIN is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 06:30
  #2256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,304
Is it possible that security at MAN as well as all UK airports adhere to the same very strict CAA governance...
southside bobby is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 08:13
  #2257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Manchester
Posts: 939
It is not arrogance to suggest that if the overwhelming majority of passengers do not have any of the reported issues at Manchester then it's the prima donnas that need to look at themselves as it has to be them that have the problems because they are too thick to understand a few simple instructions. And no, I'm not in any way shape or form affiliated to the Manchester Airport Group. And frankly I'd say that anyone not spotting a banned item needs to sacked on the 1st occasion and not the 3rd one as what's the point in them being employed in security - after all, if they miss something and an incident takes place, that is when REAL adverse publicity will occur, and not on the basis of 521 Which? respondents to a survey.
Ringwayman is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 08:54
  #2258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
Is it possible that security at MAN as well as all UK airports adhere to the same very strict CAA governance...
Yes, "adherence" is a legal requirement. However, irrespective of the "same very strict" CAA rules, if you've transited various UK airports, you'll be aware their actual interpretation might frequently be a different matter.

As a very simple example, removal of shoes & belts. Sometimes it's necessary, other times it's not. The same shoes, the same belt and quite often, through the same airport! Within just the past few months, I've experienced that from STN, GLA and LHR.
seafire6b is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 10:07
  #2259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 54
Posts: 2,659
Originally Posted by Ringwayman View Post
It is not arrogance to suggest that if the overwhelming majority of passengers do not have any of the reported issues at Manchester then it's the prima donnas that need to look at themselves as it has to be them that have the problems because they are too thick to understand a few simple instructions. And no, I'm not in any way shape or form affiliated to the Manchester Airport Group. And frankly I'd say that anyone not spotting a banned item needs to sacked on the 1st occasion and not the 3rd one as what's the point in them being employed in security - after all, if they miss something and an incident takes place, that is when REAL adverse publicity will occur, and not on the basis of 521 Which? respondents to a survey.
Good grief, where to begin. The vast majority don't complain. It doesn't mean they don't have a problem. They just suck it up. As a nation we are notorious for not complaining or making a fuss. Prima donnas!! Really? When a passenger travels through different airports frequently and only gets a problem at one of them, you are saying its the passenger's fault? Get real.

I see you are one of the hire and fire brigade. Fortunately, now a rarity in this industry. Think about it. You spend thousands and many man hours training people up, they make one mistake, and your answer is to sack them on the spot? Wrong. Everybody learns from their mistakes. The same error is unlikely to occur again. That individual has now learned a valuable lesson and hopefully will not do it again, especially if additional training is offered/required. Its called having a 'just culture' it is vital in the aviation industry and all safety critical work places that it is followed. Threatening people with the sack for an error is counter productive. No one learns from the error and it costs industry more money.

Something for your bedtime reading...

Just Culture
TURIN is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2018, 11:10
  #2260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Manchester
Posts: 17
This blanket blame of Pax for the problems at MAN is lazy and points to a culture of failure to take responsibility for customer experience within management at MAG.
My last experience on arrivals at T3 3 days ago

1. Back steps of Plane not used. Pax fault?
2. X2 E-gates unserviceable. Pax fault?
3. 55 minute wait for luggage. Pax fault?
4. Long term unserviceable door. Air-landslide. Pax fault?
5. Shambles of arrangements for Pax pick up outside terminal. Pax fault?

I’d accept that some pax aren’t prepared adequately for security outbound. Possibly/probably those that travel rarely through MAN. After all security requirements vary dramatically from one airport to another, and even at the same airport from day to day. Perhaps what that highlights is poor signage and information delivery to the infrequent traveller.
Some advice from a customer to minimise delays at security.
1. Fully staff outbound security.
2.Ensure the security hardware works.
3. Train your staff adequately.
4. ‘Eyes and Teeth’. My shorthand for, Make eye contact with the traveler and smile at them.
5. Use all the security lanes at busy times.
6. ‘Secret shop’ the system with inexperienced travelers.
Caravaggio is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.