Manchester-2
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Oh because it’s the only viable choice perhaps.
Both other regionals have rather limited travel options and add significantly to your ground travel times and via another hub well that still starts at Manchester and probably via your favoured terminal T3 !
Get real Manchester is certainly a victim of its own success and is working towards a longer term solution right now.
The security issues and up and down stairs in the piers aren’t MAGs fault by design . No these are imposed by ministers without any consutation of the industry including segregated arrivals and departures even within the EU its plain nonsense and political grandstanding and that the facts imho.
As for T1 through I do agree it’s now way past the design capacity infact it has fewer contact stands now than in the nineties and before T1BA was contructed !
Last edited by Rutan16; 26th Jul 2018 at 16:16.
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Advice please. I am travelling with a small group on Wednesday 8th August to Zurich at (0845 with Swiss at least I think that is the time, I am not the group leader and time to be confirmed by her). One of our group is a very nervous traveller - can we expect very long queues at security or will things have got better especially midweek? They have been looking at the airport's departures and have already noted the couple of hours lateness this flight had today and yesterday (anybody know why?). Is there any help available for those who suffer from extreme anxiety and need help bypassing crowds and queues? (Apologies to those in the queue). They will be on diazepem for the journey!
To be honest I would not be surprised if John does not turn up for the journey but it would be a shame as he would probably never fly again. It would be nice to give him some assurance. Thank you
To be honest I would not be surprised if John does not turn up for the journey but it would be a shame as he would probably never fly again. It would be nice to give him some assurance. Thank you
T1 on Friday morning WILL be very busy and I am afraid a long queue through security IS inevitable so do be prepared for 40 minutes plus unless you pay for the speedy lines!
The flight and others have been delayed over the last few day because of FLOW CONTROL across Central Europe simply too much traffic in the air.
Dont get to anxiousthe flight will be fine - the airport experience less so however it the way it is these days .
Air travel lost its glamorous edge more than twenty years ago it just another method of mass transit these days.
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Thank you Rutan16 for your wonderful swift reply. I don't like saying this but I did say we are travelling Wednesday 8 August - sorry. John is starting to get really nervous so we are getting in touch with Swiss and asking for some kind of assistance. I don't what airlines offer these days with what is basically a mental health issue. He suffers nervousness in many crowded places and, for example, at the theatre has to go to the toilet several times until just before the performance starts. He will certainly get to know Terminal 1 toilets well at least! Thank you again.
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Some perspective tomorrow between 6 and 7am Manchester will have 32 blocked departures whilst Heathrow just 23 !
Gatwick however will have a whopping 37 scheduled off of their one active runway !
Yes Manchester first wave really is that busy these days and unlike Heathrow - Gatwick will have already had a further 16 in the previous hour and Manchester 5.
Gatwick however will have a whopping 37 scheduled off of their one active runway !
Yes Manchester first wave really is that busy these days and unlike Heathrow - Gatwick will have already had a further 16 in the previous hour and Manchester 5.
Rutan 16
Seriously? That is laughable sir.
Manchester is a victim of it's own incompetence failing to staff up for known planned traffic.
Hence a number of airlines bosses, The CAA & Dept for Transport are monitoring the situation- I can't say more than that here.
My use of MAN has reduced, the fist casualty is Flybe as I'm using the train to Edinburgh & to Southampton as using this airport is just not viable.
If T1 is beyond it's design capacity as you say- then why are they still accepting new airlines and routes that they cannot handle?
By the way- I don't always book the flights so I don't always have a say in the matter. Love your assumptions on my travel requirements.
Get real Manchester is certainly a victim of its own success
Manchester is a victim of it's own incompetence failing to staff up for known planned traffic.
Hence a number of airlines bosses, The CAA & Dept for Transport are monitoring the situation- I can't say more than that here.
My use of MAN has reduced, the fist casualty is Flybe as I'm using the train to Edinburgh & to Southampton as using this airport is just not viable.
If T1 is beyond it's design capacity as you say- then why are they still accepting new airlines and routes that they cannot handle?
By the way- I don't always book the flights so I don't always have a say in the matter. Love your assumptions on my travel requirements.
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I'm not trying to excuse the airport but it's a pity the guy making the video got a little confused between pick-up and drop-off fees. Pick-up which he was referring to is £4 for up to 30 minutes as far as I know. Drop-off is £3 for up to 5 minutes and £4 for up to 10 minutes. What happens after 10 minutes, especially if exit lanes are closed, and it's not the driver's fault but the system or the equipment, I'm not sure.
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Gatwick has two huge terminals by comparison with those of Manchester and GIP has already spent significant amounts of time and money.
In the case of North built with lamina passenger flows in mind ( loads of space for security were intrinsic in the design brief) as were the requirements for mainly single carrier - still relevent even with the tails are now largely orange rather than a wavy marine ensign.
The Design of south has long been such that the security points were front and centre.
They had their problems however they have certainly attacked it head on.
And I don’t dispute the issues at Manchester right now which include the use of what was and still is as by design a domestic facility for international flexible fares and even long haul. T3 is chronically stretched way beyond design limits.!
In the case of North built with lamina passenger flows in mind ( loads of space for security were intrinsic in the design brief) as were the requirements for mainly single carrier - still relevent even with the tails are now largely orange rather than a wavy marine ensign.
The Design of south has long been such that the security points were front and centre.
They had their problems however they have certainly attacked it head on.
And I don’t dispute the issues at Manchester right now which include the use of what was and still is as by design a domestic facility for international flexible fares and even long haul. T3 is chronically stretched way beyond design limits.!
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Enjoy the train(s) to Southampton -Lovely on those four and five car Voyagers with the tilt turned OFF and stopping at every point conceivable and some not so down the Chiltern and Oxford line and reversing in Reading really takes for ever !
Unless you route via London and navigate the murky and at the moment most unbearable underground- I can tell my own commute home today really was hell !
As for Edinburgh I suppose you travel via York and a change to that “ can’t make any money” franchise East Coast because TPE can’t run a proper service !
Heyho each to their own.
Personally I’d get in the car book a Premier and take in few more customers in both cases.
Again I’d say a fourty minute patient queue seem far more appealing.
Unless you route via London and navigate the murky and at the moment most unbearable underground- I can tell my own commute home today really was hell !
As for Edinburgh I suppose you travel via York and a change to that “ can’t make any money” franchise East Coast because TPE can’t run a proper service !
Heyho each to their own.
Personally I’d get in the car book a Premier and take in few more customers in both cases.
Again I’d say a fourty minute patient queue seem far more appealing.
Last edited by Rutan16; 26th Jul 2018 at 21:51.
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Rutan 16
Seriously? That is laughable sir.
Manchester is a victim of it's own incompetence failing to staff up for known planned traffic.
Hence a number of airlines bosses, The CAA & Dept for Transport are monitoring the situation- I can't say more than that here.
My use of MAN has reduced, the fist casualty is Flybe as I'm using the train to Edinburgh & to Southampton as using this airport is just not viable.
If T1 is beyond it's design capacity as you say- then why are they still accepting new airlines and routes that they cannot handle?
By the way- I don't always book the flights so I don't always have a say in the matter. Love your assumptions on my travel requirements.
Seriously? That is laughable sir.
Manchester is a victim of it's own incompetence failing to staff up for known planned traffic.
Hence a number of airlines bosses, The CAA & Dept for Transport are monitoring the situation- I can't say more than that here.
My use of MAN has reduced, the fist casualty is Flybe as I'm using the train to Edinburgh & to Southampton as using this airport is just not viable.
If T1 is beyond it's design capacity as you say- then why are they still accepting new airlines and routes that they cannot handle?
By the way- I don't always book the flights so I don't always have a say in the matter. Love your assumptions on my travel requirements.
Other than an enforced lowering of declared terminal capacity over the typically measured two hour timeframe !
And where do you reroute that traffic .
Oh lets see MAG has a plan, no is already working on that with the T2 programme .
Yet still the major airlines and three leading tour operators find Manchester appealing enough to their bottom line.
Indeed I hazard a guess not few of those carriers plus the orange and harp rather like/benefit from the lack of time for the terminal shopping experience caused by the departures security lines at the moment.
If any commercial operations have questions for MAG to answer its the retailers imho.
High rents demand the requisite footfall and other agents of the same authority seem hell bent on damaging their bottom line.
BTW other UK airports including Birmingham Edinburgh and Aldergrove are expericing similar departure security issues
Its is a major problem.
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I see the BBC Breakfast Business chap (Ben Thompson) is at MAN this morning. Missed it earlier but I trust we see shots of a/c on the airfield rather than queues in security or cars.
Just saw the last report before 09.00 and he was in the glass box at the top of the Tower talking to some ATC Managers and a travel journalist. I gather earlier he was out on the balcony with some great views of the airfield at a very busy time.
The problems don't go away but nice to see something showing the airport in a more positive light.
Just saw the last report before 09.00 and he was in the glass box at the top of the Tower talking to some ATC Managers and a travel journalist. I gather earlier he was out on the balcony with some great views of the airfield at a very busy time.
The problems don't go away but nice to see something showing the airport in a more positive light.
Last edited by MANFOD; 27th Jul 2018 at 08:29. Reason: update
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Mr Rutan
Your overwhelming full on defence of MAN and the rather snarky reply to a complainant is unjustified.
A few points to make:
1. You mock Mr Atis for electing not to fly domestically. By coincidence I was sat on a FlyBe plane last week (BHD-MAN) and I noticed the 'Faster than Road or Rail' claim. These days it isn't.
Let's say I want to go from home in Manchester to Edinburgh (I used to fly there a lot back in the day).....Taxi to the airport 30 mins in order to arrive 2 hours before the departure time. 1 hour of flying; 30 mins to park the plane, wait for everyone to deplane, walk through the terminal and get in a taxi - 30 mins; taxi in to town 30 mins. That's 4.5 hours. I can drive door to door in 4 hours in the comfort of my own car for probably less than a third of the cost.
Southampton....never go there but I would definitely take the train. That's a no-brainer in order to avoid the airport.
London - train 100% every time.
2.You mention that Mr Atis still flies from MAN because his options are limited. That is true. For me that starts to raise the question of regulation. Regulation exists to stop companies in monopolistic situations abusing that monopoly. Now whilst you can fly on your holidays to Spain from a number of competing airports nearby, there are many many places on the globe where Manchester has a clear monopoly outside of London. I hope the CAA are taking note.
3. You and other defenders of the current situation are always banging on about the current investment program which although it is welcome is at least 10 years too late. The current problems have been obvious for many years and have been getting worse. MAN management have been aware of the deficiencies of their assets for many years and have done nothing whilst raking in the bonuses. Furthermore the current investment program will not fix any of the real problems in T1 (way past it's sell by date and needs a total re-build) and T3 which is badly designed to start with and massively over capacity.
4. I remember well that in the past, one of MAN's selling points was that it wasn't Heathrow which was always (with some justification) painted as some kind of hell on earth and to be avoided at all cost. Now the opposite is true. Why? Because the owners of LHR have invested heavily over a protracted period in order to fix the problems and make it a better place. I never thought this would happen, but it has. Now MAN is to be avoided where possible.
Before you or anyone says I'm somehow 'anti-Manchester' - I'm not - in fact I put in considerable personal effort to lobby and fight for approval for runway 2 back in the day. I'm just so disappointed that such obvious failings of the current and previous management are excused and defended.
I feel that those that defend the current state of affairs are either employed to do so or are plane-spotters (who must think they're in paradise).
It can't be a coincidence that those like me, Mr Atis and others who complain most are those that have to use the airport the most in order to earn a living.
Your overwhelming full on defence of MAN and the rather snarky reply to a complainant is unjustified.
A few points to make:
1. You mock Mr Atis for electing not to fly domestically. By coincidence I was sat on a FlyBe plane last week (BHD-MAN) and I noticed the 'Faster than Road or Rail' claim. These days it isn't.
Let's say I want to go from home in Manchester to Edinburgh (I used to fly there a lot back in the day).....Taxi to the airport 30 mins in order to arrive 2 hours before the departure time. 1 hour of flying; 30 mins to park the plane, wait for everyone to deplane, walk through the terminal and get in a taxi - 30 mins; taxi in to town 30 mins. That's 4.5 hours. I can drive door to door in 4 hours in the comfort of my own car for probably less than a third of the cost.
Southampton....never go there but I would definitely take the train. That's a no-brainer in order to avoid the airport.
London - train 100% every time.
2.You mention that Mr Atis still flies from MAN because his options are limited. That is true. For me that starts to raise the question of regulation. Regulation exists to stop companies in monopolistic situations abusing that monopoly. Now whilst you can fly on your holidays to Spain from a number of competing airports nearby, there are many many places on the globe where Manchester has a clear monopoly outside of London. I hope the CAA are taking note.
3. You and other defenders of the current situation are always banging on about the current investment program which although it is welcome is at least 10 years too late. The current problems have been obvious for many years and have been getting worse. MAN management have been aware of the deficiencies of their assets for many years and have done nothing whilst raking in the bonuses. Furthermore the current investment program will not fix any of the real problems in T1 (way past it's sell by date and needs a total re-build) and T3 which is badly designed to start with and massively over capacity.
4. I remember well that in the past, one of MAN's selling points was that it wasn't Heathrow which was always (with some justification) painted as some kind of hell on earth and to be avoided at all cost. Now the opposite is true. Why? Because the owners of LHR have invested heavily over a protracted period in order to fix the problems and make it a better place. I never thought this would happen, but it has. Now MAN is to be avoided where possible.
Before you or anyone says I'm somehow 'anti-Manchester' - I'm not - in fact I put in considerable personal effort to lobby and fight for approval for runway 2 back in the day. I'm just so disappointed that such obvious failings of the current and previous management are excused and defended.
I feel that those that defend the current state of affairs are either employed to do so or are plane-spotters (who must think they're in paradise).
It can't be a coincidence that those like me, Mr Atis and others who complain most are those that have to use the airport the most in order to earn a living.
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Enjoy the train(s) to Southampton -Lovely on those four and five car Voyagers with the tilt turned OFF and stopping at every point conceivable and some not so down the Chiltern and Oxford line and reversing in Reading really takes for ever !
Unless you route via London and navigate the murky and at the moment most unbearable underground- I can tell my own commute home today really was hell !
As for Edinburgh I suppose you travel via York and a change to that “ can’t make any money” franchise East Coast because TPE can’t run a proper service !
Heyho each to their own.
Personally I’d get in the car book a Premier and take in few more customers in both cases.
Again I’d say a fourty minute patient queue seem far more appealing.
Unless you route via London and navigate the murky and at the moment most unbearable underground- I can tell my own commute home today really was hell !
As for Edinburgh I suppose you travel via York and a change to that “ can’t make any money” franchise East Coast because TPE can’t run a proper service !
Heyho each to their own.
Personally I’d get in the car book a Premier and take in few more customers in both cases.
Again I’d say a fourty minute patient queue seem far more appealing.
Re Southampton- I've done both (frequently) Cross Country is a no no.
Virgin to London & a quick 4 stop change to Waterloo.
At least during this time I can work in comfort, which you can't do standing in a security queue or looking for a vacant seat or being refused from a full lounge.
Despite routing via London - from home to destination is still quicker, for me, by rail than MAN.
The trouble at T3 (like the others) there is no consistency, will the process take 10 minutes or two hours to get airside? Their own agreed security service level is 15 minutes, which is in their gift to provide if they employed enough staff.
Reports of the free drop off area are that some people are waiting 45 minutes for a free shuttle because the 15 minute service is full. Again within their gift but ignored. At a recent meeting they discussed either upping the service to 10 minutes or providing dedicated terminal buses- but decided the existing plan was enough.
Again at their recent meeting they discussed cleanliness etc- again kicked into long grass.
The User committee asked for more resources rather than continuing to inflate their already record profits.
As a lifelong supporter of MAN it is heartbreaking to see what they done to the place- apart from a decade of underfunding (Bournemouth & Humberside follies) There really needs to be a management clear out. This falling customer service will bite them back in the end. They have the resources available to fix many things short term.... if they wanted to.
In the meantime when I meet friends from Asia I can only apologies to them for their embarrassing experiences.
Virgin to London & a quick 4 stop change to Waterloo.
At least during this time I can work in comfort, which you can't do standing in a security queue or looking for a vacant seat or being refused from a full lounge.
Despite routing via London - from home to destination is still quicker, for me, by rail than MAN.
The trouble at T3 (like the others) there is no consistency, will the process take 10 minutes or two hours to get airside? Their own agreed security service level is 15 minutes, which is in their gift to provide if they employed enough staff.
Reports of the free drop off area are that some people are waiting 45 minutes for a free shuttle because the 15 minute service is full. Again within their gift but ignored. At a recent meeting they discussed either upping the service to 10 minutes or providing dedicated terminal buses- but decided the existing plan was enough.
Again at their recent meeting they discussed cleanliness etc- again kicked into long grass.
The User committee asked for more resources rather than continuing to inflate their already record profits.
As a lifelong supporter of MAN it is heartbreaking to see what they done to the place- apart from a decade of underfunding (Bournemouth & Humberside follies) There really needs to be a management clear out. This falling customer service will bite them back in the end. They have the resources available to fix many things short term.... if they wanted to.
In the meantime when I meet friends from Asia I can only apologies to them for their embarrassing experiences.
