Cardiff-2

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by OC37

But CWL does have a CDG connection, last time I travelled on the blue Fokker, these days an Embraer, it was on an AF flight no. CWL/CDG via AMS:

Departing: Cardiff International Airport (CWL), Cardiff, United Kingdom
16:50 Sat
Arriving: Amsterdam Schiphol Airport, (AMS), Amsterdam, Netherlands
19:05 Sat
Air France (AF 8348) Aircraft type - F70

Not really a direct route. Yes you can use Amsterdam as with lots of other European cities and i have done so but its not the same.

[OC37]

Originally Posted by PDXCWL45

Not really a direct route. Yes you can use Amsterdam as with lots of other European cities and i have done so but its not the same.

My point was that CWL was/is on the Air France network, people can travel to/from CWL with AF even if it isn't such a direct routing as it could be but how likely would any future CDG route operator be to have a codeshare with AF?

[CabinCrewe]

Originally Posted by caaardiff

Depends if EI/BA want to create whichever Airport as a mini long haul hub. CWL-New York might work, but that's about it, which is only 1 aircraft.

Is there enough demand in the region?

No. CWL-NYC... really?

[supermarine]

Originally Posted by CabinCrewe

No. CWL-NYC... really?

We had a great time in New York two years ago but I would not go near the place today, it is reverting back to the bad old days according to mates who live there and are trying to move upstate as soon as they can !

[PDXCWL45]

Considering the capacity for New York just down the road at Heathrow even I question whether a direct route would be viable even pre Covid19.
At the moment CWL needs to concentrate on Ireland and Europe.

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by PDXCWL45

Considering the capacity for New York just down the road at Heathrow even I question whether a direct route would be viable even pre Covid19.
At the moment CWL needs to concentrate on Ireland and Europe.

Exactly, I really do wonder what it is about New York that really is so important to airport enthusiasts. The seat of world economic power is moving east, and in terms of long haul Qatar need to be nurtured during these covid times, so that they are still in Cardiff when the dark clouds have lifted.

More urgent priorities, for the Welsh economy, and to assist in attracting inward investment, are decent multi-daily connections to 2 or 3 of Europe's major hub airports - AMS, FRA and one other I suggest.

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

Exactly, I really do wonder what it is about New York that really is so important to airport enthusiasts. The seat of world economic power is moving east, and in terms of long haul Qatar need to be nurtured during these covid times, so that they are still in Cardiff when the dark clouds have lifted.

More urgent priorities, for the Welsh economy, and to assist in attracting inward investment, are decent multi-daily connections to 2 or 3 of Europe's major hub airports - AMS, FRA and one other I suggest.

I think it's a prestige thing and that NYC is one of the big financial centres in the world.

[TOM100]

Incredible that CWL saw the largest YOY drop in pax numbers of any UK airport in July. They cannot sustain an operation of their current size and cost levels on these kind of pax numbers.

You have to hope they are really seriously considering how they can respond. Given furlough ends in Oct if they are going to reduce their variable costs substantially eg people then consultations should have commenced by now. Maybe they
have ? As an aside I returned through CWL last week and its arrival appearance was shabby - flickering lights, broken lights, error messages on lots of screens and with the one flight, first bags on belt took 25-30 mins (not sure last but my bag came out after about 35 mins and there were still a lot of people waiting). Given they must have a lot of people with spare capacity you would think they could present the terminal in tip top condition.

STANSTED 468,537 down -83.0
LUTON 467,605 down -74.1
MANCHESTER 332,158 down -89.6
GATWICK 280,475 down -94.1
EDINBURGH 168,976 down -88.8
BIRMINGHAM 135,145 down -90.0
BRISTOL 121,115 down -87.6
BELFAST INTERNATIONAL 103,921 down -83.7
LIVERPOOL (JOHN LENNON) 81,890 down -83.5
EAST MIDLANDS INTERNATIONAL 79,447 down -86.1
GLASGOW 68,952 down -92.9
ABERDEEN 59,338 down -78.8
LEEDS BRADFORD 52,631 down -89.1
NEWCASTLE 49,623 down -91.7
DONCASTER SHEFFIELD 26,530 down -83.8
BELFAST CITY (GEORGE BEST) 22,976 down -91.0
JERSEY 21,845 down -88.4
SOUTHEND 20,819 down -91.1
BOURNEMOUTH 16,280 down -82.9
PRESTWICK 13,851 down -82.9
LONDON CITY 12,653 down -97.4
INVERNESS 11,568 down -87.9
SUMBURGH 9,962 down -62.5
SOUTHAMPTON 7,594 down -95.8
NORWICH 6,715 down -88.5
CITY OF DERRY (EGLINTON) 6,683 down -65.3
GUERNSEY 5,962 down -93.3
ISLES OF SCILLY (ST.MARYS) 5,003 down -62.9
LANDS END (ST JUST) 4,172 down -46.9
CARDIFF WALES 3,506 down -98.3
KIRKWALL 3,393 down -79.3
ALDERNEY 2,705 down -51.5
ISLE OF MAN 2,611 down -96.6
NEWQUAY 2,387 down -96.0
STORNOWAY 2,359 down -80.7
EXETER 2,150 down -98.1

[PDXCWL45]

I'm sure management will do what they feel is best for the business. 25 minutes sound's reasonable especially as I'd have thought that the airport was on skeleton crewing. The drop in numbers is no different from other Flybe reliant airports.
CAA Stats July 2020
3506 passengers used the airport in July down 98% on 2019. The rolling year was 879,000 down 46.5% on 2019.
Domestic
Humberside 70
Leeds Bradford 67
Liverpool 68
Teesside 66
European
Faro 818 -88%
Alicante 366 -97%
Barcelona 428 -87%
Malaga 1623 -89%

[ATNotts]

TOM100

I imagine, regarding the evident shabbyness of the terminal and system, and the perceived delay in baggage reclaim, CWL is keeping staffing to an absolute minimum to keeps costs down. In their position I'd be doing very similar.

[TOM100]

I understand they must be trying to keep staffing low but they really don’t have daily ongoing maintenance and ppm that they can’t factor in changing lightbulbs ? I love the blind faith on these forums that CWL management will “do the right thing”. Not a facetious question but can anybody share with me any aspect of the CWL managements strategy to deal with C19 ? I know some elements, for example, of LHR, BRS, EDI, LGW (none of which are publicly owned)

Ref baggage performance, I don’t think 25 mins for first bag from Gate 3 to carousel is good (with one flight arriving on sched) - I personally don’t think that’s great and as I left I have no idea of time of last bag. For example LGW have a publicly (on their website) target criteria for last bag on belt within 35 mins - a huge airport with 000’s of gates !

If if people are prepared to accept this performance is OK then CWL will obviously continue to be a great traveller experience !

[PDXCWL45]

From what I'm told 25 mins is about right for a regional airport like Cardiff. I'm sure CWL management have plan and I expect eventually they'll present it to a Senedd committee in due time.

[VickersVicount]

Was reading about the new QR A321LXLRs wonder if they'd be good for eg EDI and CWL, although if we’re told they’re ‘all about cargo‘, maybe not as good a move as would be significantly less.

[ATNotts]

Originally Posted by PDXCWL45

From what I'm told 25 mins is about right for a regional airport like Cardiff. I'm sure CWL management have plan and I expect eventually they'll present it to a Senedd committee in due time.

Which is why, if you've got hold bags the scrum to deplane first is completely pointless.

[TOM100]

The scrum now is to get to border control to show and get your PLF form checked without standing in a long queue lol 😂

[caaardiff]

Originally Posted by TOM100

I understand they must be trying to keep staffing low but they really don’t have daily ongoing maintenance and ppm that they can’t factor in changing lightbulbs ? I love the blind faith on these forums that CWL management will “do the right thing”. Not a facetious question but can anybody share with me any aspect of the CWL managements strategy to deal with C19 ? I know some elements, for example, of LHR, BRS, EDI, LGW (none of which are publicly owned)

Ref baggage performance, I don’t think 25 mins for first bag from Gate 3 to carousel is good (with one flight arriving on sched) - I personally don’t think that’s great and as I left I have no idea of time of last bag. For example LGW have a publicly (on their website) target criteria for last bag on belt within 35 mins - a huge airport with 000’s of gates !

If if people are prepared to accept this performance is OK then CWL will obviously continue to be a great traveller experience !

Here we go again. Did you apply for the ceo position? Sounds like you can run it better.

With regards to the baggage, have you considered social distancing may be a factor to longer offload times? The hold of an aircraft is a small confined space at the best of times.

[Link Kilo]

Originally Posted by VickersVicount

Was reading about the new QR A321LXLRs wonder if they'd be good for eg EDI and CWL, although if we’re told they’re ‘all about cargo‘, maybe not as good a move as would be significantly less.

Can you post a link to where you read that please as to the best of my knowledge they've ordered the LR not the XLR.

[OC37]

Originally Posted by ATNotts

More urgent priorities, for the Welsh economy, and to assist in attracting inward investment, are decent multi-daily connections to 2 or 3 of Europe's major hub airports - AMS, FRA and one other I suggest.

For some years I was a regular, both business and leisure, traveller based in east Midlands and I soon came to recognise that my most convenient airport was BHX, not for direct services but for convenience, easy/cheap car parking, good road/rail connections, easy thru the terminal with normally time for a pint or two before departure.

But the number of people from the north that would drive straight past BHX down the M6, M5, M40 to the likes of LHR for their direct flights to wherever who simply didn't recognise that these destinations were available from the BHX airport they passed some two hours previously albeit via an intermediary hub such as AMS, CDG, CPH, DUS, FRA, MUC, ZRH etc.

CWL will have a similar problem, let's say Mrs Jones asks where she can take a flight to Rome she is likely to receive a reply of BRS or LHR so off Mrs Jones is likely to toddle to BRS or LHR when CWL have up to 3 services daily to/from Rome via AMS, that is the problem and not likely to be one that shall go away anytime soon.

So at present, let's say a percentage of the travelling public travel to LHR, another percentage travel to BRS leaving only the percentage of smarter ones to realise that they can fly locally via that intermediary hub, I can't recall how the AMS route developed, if indeed it was KLM/NLM or Netherlines that started it but I recall at one stage it being combined with a BRS service utilising F27's, I recall direct services utilising SF340's then F27/F50's and a long way thereafter developing it to up to 3 x 80 (ish) daily jet services.

But bring in more European hub operators, as suggested FRA (Lufthansa) and CDG (Air France) seems to be a want then that modest percentage of the smarter ones flying from CWL are going to find themselves spoilt for choice and shall probably utilise the cheapest and most convenient intermediary hub operator, not only are KLM likely to lose passengers but what are the smallest aircraft types that these operators operate to develop and/or maintain a route these days with pretty much all of the lesser sized recognised airliners long since out of production.

What is needed is education by marketing, thereafter might come intermediary hub operations route development, it works very well from BHX so what have BHX done that CWL haven't done?

[marko1]

Originally Posted by OC37

For some years I was a regular, both business and leisure, traveller based in east Midlands and I soon came to recognise that my most convenient airport was BHX, not for direct services but for convenience, easy/cheap car parking, good road/rail connections, easy thru the terminal with normally time for a pint or two before departure.

But the number of people from the north that would drive straight past BHX down the M6, M5, M40 to the likes of LHR for their direct flights to wherever who simply didn't recognise that these destinations were available from the BHX airport they passed some two hours previously albeit via an intermediary hub such as AMS, CDG, CPH, DUS, FRA, MUC, ZRH etc.

CWL will have a similar problem, let's say Mrs Jones asks where she can take a flight to Rome she is likely to receive a reply of BRS or LHR so off Mrs Jones is likely to toddle to BRS or LHR when CWL have up to 3 services daily to/from Rome via AMS, that is the problem and not likely to be one that shall go away anytime soon.

So at present, let's say a percentage of the travelling public travel to LHR, another percentage travel to BRS leaving only the percentage of smarter ones to realise that they can fly locally via that intermediary hub, I can't recall how the AMS route developed, if indeed it was KLM/NLM or Netherlines that started it but I recall at one stage it being combined with a BRS service utilising F27's, I recall direct services utilising SF340's then F27/F50's and a long way thereafter developing it to up to 3 x 80 (ish) daily jet services.

But bring in more European hub operators, as suggested FRA (Lufthansa) and CDG (Air France) seems to be a want then that modest percentage of the smarter ones flying from CWL are going to find themselves spoilt for choice and shall probably utilise the cheapest and most convenient intermediary hub operator, not only are KLM likely to lose passengers but what are the smallest aircraft types that these operators operate to develop and/or maintain a route these days with pretty much all of the lesser sized recognised airliners long since out of production.

What is needed is education by marketing, thereafter might come intermediary hub operations route development, it works very well from BHX so what have BHX done that CWL haven't done?

if Bristol cannot keep Air France, lufthansa , sas or Brussels airlines , I very much doubt Cardiff could either. Cardiff’s best bet is attracting a regional carrier or two to serve point to point Scottish , Irish and french markets and bolster the existing Qatar and KLM services. The other two things Cardiff really could bolster is its leisure and cargo services. Holiday flights have always been successful from Cardiff and you have a nice long runway for cargo flights. Lots of advantages at Cardiff that Bristol would be desperate to have. Use those advantages and success will come. Leave the frankfurts etc for Bristol to battle with

[PDXCWL45]

Unless Cardiff attracts a based airline I'd say Scotland is off the list for now as loganair have made it pretty clear that they are not interested. Aer lingus should be the target for the return of the Irish routes and Air France HOP! for Paris. The other priority needs to be keeping TUI at 3 based aircraft for S21 and getting Ryanair to expand again.
As for cargo they need to invest in a cold store.