Cardiff-2

[OC37]

Originally Posted by supermarine

320 Departures for the last week at Bristol

27 Departures at Cardiff Its not a Finance Director they need, more like a Funeral Director

You really do need to get over this CWL vs BRS nonsense, the two of them are some 90 minutes driving time apart which is just about the same as BHX and MAN and I don't observe either of those squabbling who has the biggest one!

[yeo valley]

Originally Posted by Midland Alpha9

PDX I have read your submissions for numerous years and whilst they are mostly interesting and informative it does lead me to the conclusion you are actually a senior manager with Cardiff Airport or an employee.
I think you are missing the main point ,which Tom100 is making. Has the airport management taken any action in reducing their operating costs/overheads in the past three months? I am aware the C.E.O. has departed, why? Most would think she has done a first class job building CWL up. Is this an opportunity for a much needed restructure. A commercial business facing these difficult challenging times needs a strong FD as I stated in my previous posting the cost of the new FD is not extortionate and if he/she is worth their salt they will more than payback their salary package.

He works for a welsh haulage company as a driver and a good one .

[caaardiff]

Originally Posted by runway30

I like Deb, I have always got along well with her but hopelessly out of her depth as CEO. Embarrassing for her to have to stay on the Board while someone else takes her job.

I presume all the armchair CEOs on here will be putting in their application for the job.

Agreed, however a CEO is only as good as their Management team. If there's a well placed, experienced Management team covering the necessary fields to run well and a CEO that can hold all of that together, then it should work. Take a look at Boris Johnson!!

Spencer has been at CWL for many years and knows his job and the Airlines incredibly well. He knows what CWL is up against, but some could argue as he's always been on the commercial side of things, would he be any good with the operational side of things? Deb is the opposite, knows the operational but maybe not so much the commercial.
This is why I don't understand why some posters want to cut the Management team down to minimal, almost making them multifunctional to save money, which would lose the effectiveness of the team in their specialised fields.

Lets not forget what originally got CWL in to this mess in the first place. An inexperienced, and quite frankly useless, uninterested and arrogant MD that only had experience of running Bingo halls. Lack of funding by it's owners and a breakdown of commercial relations with the Airlines, with maintenance and cleanliness of the terminal building taking a hit because of cut backs. Let that happen again and the £52m spent on the Airport will never been seen again.

[OC37]

Originally Posted by caaardiff

Agreed, however a CEO is only as good as their Management team. If there's a well placed, experienced Management team covering the necessary fields to run well and a CEO that can hold all of that together, then it should work. Take a look at Boris Johnson!!

Spencer has been at CWL for many years and knows his job and the Airlines incredibly well. He knows what CWL is up against, but some could argue as he's always been on the commercial side of things, would he be any good with the operational side of things? Deb is the opposite, knows the operational but maybe not so much the commercial.
This is why I don't understand why some posters want to cut the Management team down to minimal, almost making them multifunctional to save money, which would lose the effectiveness of the team in their specialised fields.

Lets not forget what originally got CWL in to this mess in the first place. An inexperienced, and quite frankly useless, uninterested and arrogant MD that only had experience of running Bingo halls. Lack of funding by it's owners and a breakdown of commercial relations with the Airlines, with maintenance and cleanliness of the terminal building taking a hit because of cut backs. Let that happen again and the £52m spent on the Airport will never been seen again.

What I have observed during recent times is business after business after business cutting back while their balance sheets shooting in to the red and them needing to scale back to try to balance the books, unless a business has a bottomless pit of third-party money to support it then if it doesn't remain in the black then it ultimately goes out of business.

On to this mentioned finance director on something like 80k per annum plus 8k car allowance, besides being a tax fiddle how can a car allowance of around £37 per working day possibly be justified when surely the government should be encouraging everybody to go green and utuilise public transport as much as is possible, the previous poster stated "take a look at Boris Johnson", exactly, get on your bicycles and leave the cars at home.

A previous poster suggested that the finances be directed within the ''group' for this to be shot down to the effect that it's not just Cardiff Airport but St Athan and Valley handling also, well so what, those are hardly mega businesses, it's common practice and becoming even moreso for businesses to sub-contract out to reduce overheads, does CWL manage it's own car parking, no it doesn't, does it manage it's own food and beverage outlets, no it doesan't, does it manage it's own newsagents, no i doesn't, does it provide the aircraft fuel, no it doesn't, to name but a few these are all sub-contracted out so why not, until times improve and can justify it, sub-contract out finance directing, there are plenty of independant accountants out there!

It's apparent that CWL isn't being operated as a commercially minded business and if the new finance director can't figure out that the business cannot afford to employ him, well he can't be worth his weight.

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by Midland Alpha9

PDX I have read your submissions for numerous years and whilst they are mostly interesting and informative it does lead me to the conclusion you are actually a senior manager with Cardiff Airport or an employee.
I think you are missing the main point ,which Tom100 is making. Has the airport management taken any action in reducing their operating costs/overheads in the past three months? I am aware the C.E.O. has departed, why? Most would think she has done a first class job building CWL up. Is this an opportunity for a much needed restructure. A commercial business facing these difficult challenging times needs a strong FD as I stated in my previous posting the cost of the new FD is not extortionate and if he/she is worth their salt they will more than payback their salary package.

Nope i work for a haulage company as a driver. I'm an enthusiast, planespotter and I like to travel, I don't work for the airport and neither does my company.
The CEO is departing to take up a position with the Port of Milford Haven along with other non executive director roles she has. I believe I read somewhere saying her stepping down is planned.
As for cost cutting if I remember correctly it was mentioned that some of the recent loan could be diverted into the business so to cover during the Covid19 crisis so maybe they feel instant cuts not needed? A new finance director I'd imagine would now undergo a full financial review of the business.
What we do now see happening at CWL is a management shakeup A new Chairman, a new finance director, new CEO yet tba and a new CCO if Spencer Birns gets the CEO position full time. New people new ideas who have a big challenge on their hands!
As for finance director car allowance it doesn't necessarily mean that he won't use public transport.

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by OC37

does CWL manage it's own car parking, no it doesn't, does it manage it's own food and beverage outlets, no it doesan't, does it manage it's own newsagents, no i doesn't, does it provide the aircraft fuel, no it doesn't,

CWL does manage it's own car parks, it manages the Executive lounge (to much criticism from elsewhere), it doesn't manage duty free or the food outlets but I suspect it gets a cut from the takings.
I suspect that the only thing that they could probably take in house maybe is the ground handling.

[runway30]

Originally Posted by PDXCWL45

Nope i work for a haulage company as a driver. I'm an enthusiast, planespotter and I like to travel, I don't work for the airport and neither does my company.
The CEO is departing to take up a position with the Port of Milford Haven along with other non executive director roles she has. I believe I read somewhere saying her stepping down is planned.
As for cost cutting if I remember correctly it was mentioned that some of the recent loan could be diverted into the business so to cover during the Covid19 crisis so maybe they feel instant cuts not needed? A new finance director I'd imagine would now undergo a full financial review of the business.
What we do now see happening at CWL is a management shakeup A new Chairman, a new finance director, new CEO yet tba and a new CCO if Spencer Birns gets the CEO position full time. New people new ideas who have a big challenge on their hands!
As for finance director car allowance it doesn't necessarily mean that he won't use public transport.

As the Airport Accountable Manager, Deb would always have to work out her notice because without an instant replacement, the Airport would have to close.

If Spence did get the job but wasn’t acceptable to the CAA as the Accountable Manager, they would have to hire a new Operations Director. Perhaps Spence would then double up as Commercial Director as well, saving an additional post.

If Spence doesn’t get the job, perhaps they will only hire a CEO with Operations experience and avoid appointing an Operations Director in the same way as they have under Deb.

[caaardiff]

Originally Posted by PDXCWL45

CWL does manage it's own car parks, it manages the Executive lounge (to much criticism from elsewhere), it doesn't manage duty free or the food outlets but I suspect it gets a cut from the takings.
I suspect that the only thing that they could probably take in house maybe is the ground handling.

Now would not be the time to take ground handling in house. It would mean a loss of revenue from office space, handling licences and various other things a handler would pay for to be able to operate at the Airport. Also with a huge reduction in flights, they would need to absorb staff and equipment costs which currently Swissport is having to absorb.

[TOM100]

PIK has less going for it in terms of location and airlines but seem to be heading in the right direction (pre-Covid). Note CEO cites cost focus and driving operational efficiencies. Take note CWL and WG !

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/202...urn-to-profit/

[caaardiff]

CWL was heading in the right direction, pre-flybe & Covid. TCX could've been recovered from, Flybe will be a lot harder.

If you look at their Management structure, it's very similar to CWL.
Each has a CEO, CFO/FD, HR Director, Ops Director & Commercial Director (With Spencer currently covering CEO)
PIK has 4 non executive Directors, whereas CWL has 3, also with Deb currently an Executive Director role until she leaves in Oct.
So seems a similar structure in both. I'm not sure of the Prestwick business setup, but the CWL team are also managing St Athan Airfield Ops & VLY Passenger services.

Secondly they may be similar in size, but very different in Operations.

2019 Passengers carried - CWL 1.65m / PIK 640k
There's a big difference in aircraft movements. CWL had about 7,000 more aircraft movements, with commercial flights comparison being CWL 16,549 vs PIK 4637
However there's a big military operation at PIK which saw 4292 at PIK vs 346 at CWL
Private non-commercial movements also account for 1915 at PIK vs 6155 at CWL. These flights are likely going to bring in less revenue than military flights.
Lastly there's a huge difference in Cargo carried 13054tn at PIK vs 1803tn at CWL. The majority of PIK's cargo throughput is from Cargo aircraft, whereas most of CWL's is schedules flights (Mainly QR).

PIK is also positioned well to be a cargo hub for Scotland, whereas CWL's location is more difficult as it would have to compete with a massive hub in EMA. So passenger wise PIK may not be doing well, but it has the ability to diversify.

I still don't understand why the Management team are continuing to get a bashing when CWL have already driven operational efficiencies and looked at costs pre-covid, whilst having to make investments in the Terminal and Airfield to remain attractive. They get scrutinised by the WG, as well as the media and general public. They aren't going to be p*ss*ng money up the wall with that kind of focus on them. I have still yet to see any solid evidence from an informed source that they are doing so.

[OC37]

Originally Posted by caaardiff

CWL was heading in the right direction, pre-flybe & Covid. TCX could've been recovered from, Flybe will be a lot harder.

If you look at their Management structure, it's very similar to CWL.
Each has a CEO, CFO/FD, HR Director, Ops Director & Commercial Director (With Spencer currently covering CEO)
PIK has 4 non executive Directors, whereas CWL has 3, also with Deb currently an Executive Director role until she leaves in Oct.
So seems a similar structure in both. I'm not sure of the Prestwick business setup, but the CWL team are also managing St Athan Airfield Ops & VLY Passenger services.

Secondly they may be similar in size, but very different in Operations.

2019 Passengers carried - CWL 1.65m / PIK 640k
There's a big difference in aircraft movements. CWL had about 7,000 more aircraft movements, with commercial flights comparison being CWL 16,549 vs PIK 4637
However there's a big military operation at PIK which saw 4292 at PIK vs 346 at CWL
Private non-commercial movements also account for 1915 at PIK vs 6155 at CWL. These flights are likely going to bring in less revenue than military flights.
Lastly there's a huge difference in Cargo carried 13054tn at PIK vs 1803tn at CWL. The majority of PIK's cargo throughput is from Cargo aircraft, whereas most of CWL's is schedules flights (Mainly QR).

PIK is also positioned well to be a cargo hub for Scotland, whereas CWL's location is more difficult as it would have to compete with a massive hub in EMA. So passenger wise PIK may not be doing well, but it has the ability to diversify.

I still don't understand why the Management team are continuing to get a bashing when CWL have already driven operational efficiencies and looked at costs pre-covid, whilst having to make investments in the Terminal and Airfield to remain attractive. They get scrutinised by the WG, as well as the media and general public. They aren't going to be p*ss*ng money up the wall with that kind of focus on them. I have still yet to see any solid evidence from an informed source that they are doing so.

But in fairness you're comparing CWL against PIK but do you truly wish to compare CWL against an airport that has been a white elephant since the day that it was built and, what with longer range aircraft needing lesser length runways, has pretty much no marketplace in modern day aviation and even for transatlantic fuel stops has always been in competition with SNN.

And I honestly do not know how these shall compare but how about comparing with the likes of EXT, BOH, NWI and HUY for perhaps some more realistic comparisons.

But of interest, to my business mind rather than my personal mind, is that it is directors being itemised, I note that CWL has a Commercial Director, would he/she be responsible for Sales in the absence of any Sales Director, so the CD is the 'Chief', how many 'Indians' does he have beneath him/her banging the telephones and out there knocking on doors trying to sell anything aviation related.

Of particular note during these times is that the CWL directors have two less than anywhere near fully utilised airfields seemingly just begging for business, below is a recent picture of BOH, would anyone care to post a recent picture of St Athan or were the CWL Commercial team, of seemingly one, too preoccupied having meetings to decide when the next meeting may be whilst other airports were out there doing some marketing?

[TOM100]

Unfortunately, some posters on here seem to miss the fundamental point I am trying to make. For a business to be successful it has to grown in a controlled way. If it is not growing and revenue is falling or static it needs to ruthlessly keep control of costs in order to maintain its margin (or reduce losses).

As pointed out PIK was regarded as a white elephant but has managed to grow revenue (which is significantly higher than CWL), pursue diversification (carving out some niches) control costs and turn a profit. Even in a ‘good’ recent year CWL’s EBITDA was, what £77k ! So my point was - find your own niches, search them out, then as OC states, go knocking doors relentlessly (metaphorically speaking). I have still yet to see CWL management state anything about cost focus and steps they are taking to address these, beyond furlough, with the business/industry estimated to take 3-4 years to recover.

The high level point point I was making about PIK is that you carve out and make your own success with the assets you have - it’s not all down to pax airlines turning up.

Anyway, clearly flogging a dead horse here as clearly some people think a £77k EBITDA on £18m t/o = management doing a fantastic job.

BTW - I don’t count the WG as proper scrutiny - most of these politicians have never worked in the real commercial world and if you take a look at their questioning in committees of CWL management - this clearly shows.

[OC37]

Originally Posted by TOM100

Unfortunately, some posters on here seem to miss the fundamental point I am trying to make. For a business to be successful it has to grown in a controlled way. If it is not growing and revenue is falling or static it needs to ruthlessly keep control of costs in order to maintain its margin (or reduce losses)..

The No.1 rule of business is that the money coming in needs to be more than the money going out, achieve that and it becomes irrelevant if the business is growing or not!

[LGS6753]

Whilst I applaud Caaaardiff's attempt to analyse the differences between CWL and PIK, I think he has missed a crucial point. It is no coincidence that various airports are owned by property companies - because that's often what they are. A quick look at CWL shows much less developed property to let than at PIK, and I suspect that is the crucial difference.

Of course, I may be wrong....

[PDXCWL45]

Just with reference to parked aircraft at CWL and St Athan.
At CWL there is about 12 747 aircraft parked around the site and it was up to 14 at one point. They are definitely maximising the space there.
As for St Athan it is a busy site for Ecube with lots of aircraft parked around to be scrapped.
In the tweet below they do mention what they're doing at the airport during this crisis.

Twitter

[TOM100]

Originally Posted by PDXCWL45

Just with reference to parked aircraft at CWL and St Athan.
At CWL there is about 12 747 aircraft parked around the site and it was up to 14 at one point. They are definitely maximising the space there.
As for St Athan it is a busy site for Ecube with lots of aircraft parked around to be scrapped.
In the tweet below they do mention what they're doing at the airport during this crisis.
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/...898088962?s=19

Great words Spencer - please tell us what these cost controls are (and I hope significant reductions too) now and beyond the end of the job retention scheme and how much £ they amount to on an annualised basis ? Frankly it’s a given that any non critical caped has stopped - this should have happened on March 24. Words and begging bowls are easy what tangible changes (permanent/semi permanent) have been made (including the senior team costs) to reflect the new revenue and pax number reality that is likely to exist for several years. I have written to my AM and put in an FOI request to attempt to get some answers.

[PDXCWL45]

Originally Posted by TOM100

Great words Spencer - please tell us what these cost controls are (and I hope significant reductions too) now and beyond the end of the job retention scheme and how much £ they amount to on an annualised basis ? Frankly it’s a given that any non critical caped has stopped - this should have happened on March 24. Words and begging bowls are easy what tangible changes (permanent/semi permanent) have been made (including the senior team costs) to reflect the new revenue and pax number reality that is likely to exist for several years. I have written to my AM and put in an FOI request to attempt to get some answers.

Well he's not exactly going to produce an item by item list especially if peoples jobs are on the line.
As for FOI good luck with that as I believe others have tried but as the airport isn't a government department and a commercial business owned by the WG I'm pretty sure it like them it'll be rejected! But please let us know what the reply is.

[TOM100]

I’ll let you know. I care passionately about this airport but feel strongly it is being mis-managed. I want it to thrive and prosper but to attract new owners and investment (eventually after all this) it needs to show it has potential and is being run like a true commercial business.

How can EXT show higher turnover and higher levels of profitability (accounts available from Companies House) with less pax and less airlines is beyond me ?

Costs need to be commensurate with revenue - it’s a business fundamental.

Who would want to invest in a business with bloated costs, no clear strategy and no diversification of business ?

I can’t help but feel the management are way too comfortable knowing they can just go to the WG with the begging bowl and get bailed out.

How can this drive the right, timely and correct commercial decisions ?

if there was private money at stake you can bet your bottom dollar that their feet would be held to the fire, they would need to be nimble and act in a truly commercial way. If the management team didn’t, they would be out.

BTW - the silence from the new Chair is deafening !

[SWBKCB]

if there was private money at stake you can bet your bottom dollar that their feet would be held to the fire, they would need to be nimble and act in a truly commercial way. If the management team didn’t, they would be out.

Remind me, why did the WG step in?

[TOM100]

T

Ummm - the WG stepped in as it couldn’t make money and nobody else was interested. Being run by the same people now. Remind me why was no commercial operator interested ? Hence why Albertis were more than keen to offload at an inflated price.