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Old 28th Aug 2020, 09:39
  #1701 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by macdo View Post
I'm afraid they do add up to such a premium. Unfortunately I have seen the management spreadsheets of the cost to run a base at CWL for what was a major operator in the past. CWL is expensive and the lack of economies of scale are an additional burden. The public are incredibly price sensitive, to the extent that they will travel further to make a perceived saving. As I said a few posts back, this has all been discussed over and over for the past 20 years. The proof of the pudding is in the pax numbers.
Which airline are you talking about?
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 09:57
  #1702 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by macdo View Post
Sorry, not going down this ancient rabbit hole.

Just to address one point. KLM use their short haul services from regional airports as a loss leader to feed their long haul hub out of AMS. Nothing new again here, BA did it for years to LHR. LH to FRA etc etc.

Yes, been there and done that, I appreciate that, let's say, that the fare CWL/AMS/FCO can be the same, if not cheaper than, AMS/FCO but on this occasion I checked CWL/AMS/CWL and BRS/AMS/BRS so longer haul connections have got diddly squat to do with it and anyone here is as equalled abled as I am to check for themselves.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 18:00
  #1703 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by macdo View Post
I'm afraid they do add up to such a premium. Unfortunately I have seen the management spreadsheets of the cost to run a base at CWL for what was a major operator in the past. CWL is expensive and the lack of economies of scale are an additional burden. The public are incredibly price sensitive, to the extent that they will travel further to make a perceived saving. As I said a few posts back, this has all been discussed over and over for the past 20 years. The proof of the pudding is in the pax numbers.
So are you digging up historic figures, 10, 20 years+ ago? Things are very different now. I cant imagine for one minute that Vueling or Ryanair are paying anything above the odds, if anything I can see Ryanair paying less than their normal going rate at other Airports just to get them back. Flybe were effectively paid to fly from CWL and I can imagine QR have been given a very good deal. TUI were pretty big 10 years ago at the peak and were back up to 3 summer aircraft last summer. Again, i can't imagine that would've happened without a good deal or CWL being profitable.
I can also imagine TCX were given a good deal to keep them there and then to get the A321 back towards the end.
Unless it can be proved otherwise, let's talk about the current time or recent past, rather than historic news that is likely to be a very different situation from now.
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 21:46
  #1704 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Also Qatar Airways have a job advert for Senior Airport Services Agent posted a month ago.
So fingers crossed it'll be good news for CWL.
Although one wonders why the previous employee jumped ship...
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Old 28th Aug 2020, 23:36
  #1705 (permalink)  
 
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LoL, I'll revisit this thread in 2030 and see how it all panned out.
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 03:35
  #1706 (permalink)  
 
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I can go back 30 years, indeed longer than 30 years, when I worked for a CWL based operator, thereafter I worked for other operators who would operate thru CWL and NEVER did I hear a single reference to CWL being expensive.

Airports all have their scales of charges, landing, navigation, parking etc. and I'd imagine that the regional airports, so to speak, recommended retail prices of these charges are all pretty much the same and if CWL has been historically overpriced, when compared to other airports, then why were such operators as Air Cymru and IEA basing their fleets in CWL, why were Manx Europe so keen to move in, I recall that BAC Express pretty much had a Shed or two based their, Norman Aircraft manufacturing crop sprayers there and thriving flying clubs to name but a few.

It is a rule of thumb of business that the greater volume of something that a business has then they can afford to let a percentage sell for a discounted price, that could be a hotel and rooms, an airline and seats or indeed an airport and movements.

What may have well happened is other airports, BRS perhaps, have reduced their charges to attract the volume, BRS's geographic location would permit them to do so, whilst with a lesser volume not permitting them to do so CWL got left behind, not a case that CWL have increased their prices but others have been able to reduce their prices, kind of alike the supermarket vs the convenience store scenario.

CWL doesn't have the volume to permit them to reduce prices when due to geographic location they're not going to reap the rewards of doing so, somewhat amusing though to repeatedly read complaints that CWL is too expensive whilst reading counterproductive complaints that CWL is a drain upon the taxpayers of Wales, you people can't have it both ways!

BRS were lucky to source and appoint obviously the right person for the job as MD back in the 1980's, perhaps one day CWL shall be so lucky also.
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Old 29th Aug 2020, 14:40
  #1707 (permalink)  

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Leaving aside the football supporter-type adulation that some aviation followers seem to pursue when it comes to nearby airports, there is no doubt that the fortunes of CWL and its neighbour at BRS are inextricably linked and have been for many, many years.

Looking back at CAA statistics over the past 60 years CWL and BRS were much of a muchness when it came to passenger numbers until the mid 1980s, with CWL slightly ahead for most, though not all, of the intervening years. It was fairly small beer though because annual numbers did not reach 300,000 at either airport until 1982. The last time that CWL handled more passengers in a calendar year than its neighbour was in 1986: 487,000-469,000.

OC37 makes a valid point about Les Wilson. Until he was appointed as BRS MD in 1980 the then city council-owned airport had been a drain on the purses of city rate payers and there were calls to close it. Les (tragically killed in a motor accident in 1995) might even have been the last chance saloon. He recognised the potential as Barbara Cassani and her senior colleagues did 20 years later when BRS was selected as GoFly’s second base with the airline later bought by easyJet.

BRS has also been fortunate (or perhaps good judgement on the part of the company played a part) in the quality of its senior management since Les Wilson’s time, with the various overseas owners following full privatisation in 2001 investing hundreds of millions of pounds into infrastructure and other amelioration.

Since the mid 1980s BRS has moved steadily ahead of CWL with the pace growing markedly this century following the arrival of GoFly to the point where in 2019 CWL handled 1.655 million against 8.959 million at BRS.

Why is that relevant to CWL? Mainly because between 12% and 20% of BRS’s annual passenger numbers (surveys down the years vary) originate or terminate in Wales. 20% in 2019 would mean nearly 1.8 million ‘Welsh’ passengers, more than used CWL in total.

Taking into account the number of BRS passengers from/to Devon and Cornwall as well means that the Lulsgate airport sees around a third of its passenger numbers generated from outside its core catchment.

BRS sits approximately midway between CWL and EXT and has a larger and generally more affluent catchment than these airports. This means it begins with a local passenger pool advantage and, because of its central position, is able to draw in passengers from both the CWL and EXT catchments to support those thinner routes that would not be viable at the other airports because of their smaller catchments and inability to ‘top up’ from the other (because of distance).

BRS also has a number of physical and operational disadvantages such as being positioned within the Green Belt, a small site, short runway, often poor weather across its 600 feet-plus AMSL elevation and difficult surface connectivity, most which don’t apply at CWL yet the airport has not yet managed to use any of these factors to significantly benefit itself.

OC37 also makes a point about passenger volume and its relationship with airport charges. A look at BRS’s accounts for the year ending 31 December 2018 (the latest year I can find) shows that its £112 million turnover contained only £42 million from aeronautical revenue. The rest was mainly the result of car parking and concessions which shows how much an airport like Bristol is heavily dependent on passenger footfall to feed its non-aeronautical revenue streams. The airport generated a profit of just under £36 million after tax that year.

It might be that CWL’s best chance for substantial growth in the future would be for BRS to lose its appeal to the Planning Inspectorate over the local authority’s decision to reject the airport’s expansion planning application earlier this year, which would mean a permanent cap of 10 mppa. Pre-Covid the BRS management projected that the ten million limit would be reached by the end of next year. The pandemic effect suggests that the airport will now take considerably longer to reach 10 mppa which might not be helpful to CWL, at least in the short term.

Both the Welsh Government and its airport company formally objected to BRS's expansion plans, saying that CWL had excess capacity and could handle the extra flights that BRS was seeking through its planning application.

As to a major ‘low-cost’ airline presence at CWL, Ryanair gave evidence to the Westminster Welsh Affairs Committee last year when the committee was enquiring into APD devolution to Wales. The airline said that APD was holding it back at CWL and if it was reduced or abolished Ryanair would put in more services there. I don’t know if this was simply part of Ryanair’s rhetoric in its longstanding campaign to have aviation taxes reduced or abolished across its network or whether it really was CWL-specific.

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Old 29th Aug 2020, 16:04
  #1708 (permalink)  
 
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BRS also has a number of physical and operational disadvantages such as being positioned within the Green Belt, a small site, short runway, often poor weather across its 600 feet-plus AMSL elevation and difficult surface connectivity, most which don’t apply at CWL yet the airport has not yet managed to use any of these factors to significantly benefit itself.
Impact of these sort of effects are often exagerated - airlines will work around them if the pax demand is there.

As to a major ‘low-cost’ airline presence at CWL, Ryanair gave evidence to the Westminster Welsh Affairs Committee last year when the committee was enquiring into APD devolution to Wales. The airline said that APD was holding it back at CWL and if it was reduced or abolished Ryanair would put in more services there. I don’t know if this was simply part of Ryanair’s rhetoric in its longstanding campaign to have aviation taxes reduced or abolished across its network or whether it really was CWL-specific.
Purely cost related, not CWL specifc - Ryanair are interested in reducing their cost of operation, and would have said the same anywhere
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 03:47
  #1709 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Purely cost related, not CWL specifc - Ryanair are interested in reducing their cost of operation, and would have said the same anywhere
Road vehicle drivers pay taxes for polluting our earth, smokers pay taxes for polluting our earth so why should air travellers not pay taxes for polluting our earth, if they cannot afford to travel then best they stay at home and to hell with lining the pockets of a non-UK national and his Irish airline shareholders, if they don't like it then they know what they can do!
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 10:14
  #1710 (permalink)  
 
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For a true low cost airport it means cutting staff costs. Welcome to the world of minimum wages and zero hour contracts. Is this the future for Cardiff or is it already at this point where annual leave, sick pay and NI contributions are a thing of the past for not only those employed directly by the airport but also the service providers like handling agents.

The airport slaves serve the better off who demand £10 fares and the likes of Ryanair who normally make eye watering profits oblige while wanting to pay airports nothing.
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 12:34
  #1711 (permalink)  
 
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This is beginning to resemble a Cardiff airport "hamster wheel"!
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 12:49
  #1712 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
This is beginning to resemble a Cardiff airport "hamster wheel"!

Much the same could be said for most of the airport threads, what is so different about this one?
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 12:54
  #1713 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OC37 View Post
Much the same could be said for most of the airport threads, what is so different about this one?
Nothing, just that the hamster appears to be running faster!!!
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 12:57
  #1714 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Nothing, just that the hamster appears to be running faster!!!
That'll be the half'n'half they all eat in Wales
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Old 30th Aug 2020, 22:14
  #1715 (permalink)  
 
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Coronavirus: Cases on Tui flight from Zante to Cardiff

Public Health Wales (PHW) is contacting the 193 passengers and crew on board.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53966897
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 09:03
  #1716 (permalink)  
 
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Tui staff failed !

Outrageous that Tui staff allowed prople to discard their masks. This one invIdentify will put back the recovery by weeks.
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 09:09
  #1717 (permalink)  
 
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Would be interesting to know if Cardiff Airport is one of the other 4 regional airports bidding for these Aer lingus A321lr trans Atlantic services.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...mpression=true
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 09:19
  #1718 (permalink)  
 
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I can imagine that they would also want connections to be able to feed into these flights from other Airports such as SNN and ORK, even DUB and some BA connections. Something CWL doesn't have at the moment.
I'd say Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh and either Bristol or Newcastle would be the potential regionals.
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 09:40
  #1719 (permalink)  
 
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Oh I don't think CWL would stand a chance tbh especially as Aer Lingus doesn't even fly to Cardiff and if they are talking to Aer lingus I'd hope it would be about Dublin, Cork and Belfast not USA. But a NYC service is on the WG target list. Personally I expect it'll be Manchester and Edinburgh. But it would be good to know who the other 4 airports are!
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Old 31st Aug 2020, 11:00
  #1720 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Oh I don't think CWL would stand a chance tbh especially as Aer Lingus doesn't even fly to Cardiff and if they are talking to Aer lingus I'd hope it would be about Dublin, Cork and Belfast not USA. But a NYC service is on the WG target list. Personally I expect it'll be Manchester and Edinburgh. But it would be good to know who the other 4 airports are!
Now go back and look at which Regional Airports would have the financial muscle to do this, CWL would be on that list. Now go back and list the Regional Airports whose shareholders have had the desire to do this for a long time and are prepared to throw a lot of money at it, CWL would be on that list.
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