Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Cardiff-2

Old 19th Aug 2020, 16:34
  #1641 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 708
Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
Ummm - the WG stepped in as it couldnít make money and nobody else was interested. Being run by the same people now. Remind me why was no commercial operator interested ? Hence why Albertis were more than keen to offload at an inflated price.
The same people that were near to bring the Airport back to profitability. CWL was part of the deal that brought Luton and Belfast to the group. They didn't really want it and that was evident in the lack of investment and restricted running that the owners put on the Airport and its management team.

I've raised this a number of time but it appears to have been ignored. There have been many changes at CWL since the WG took over. Many signs of diversification, many signs of increased passenger numbers and slow progress of increased routes and Airlines. This process hasn't just started since covid/flybe. It started 5years+ ago.
Along with all of that change came investment in the Airfield, airfield equipment and the terminal. All of which was needed but obviously affected the books.

TOM100, you clearly have a grudge against the Airport Management which is starting to show and get boring and repetitive.
Seeing as you seem to know so much, I am very curious to see you put your money where your mouth is and start providing some viable and realistic options to how you would better run CWL, without the belief that you can get anyone off the street to do senior roles, Airlines are banging at the door to use CWL and there isn't a need for ongoing investment.....
caaardiff is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2020, 16:55
  #1642 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,192
Exeter is mentioned a bit and probably is a better comparing with than Bristol. I think the fact that it has less airline's and routes maybe shows that it's making it's money on other parts of the business like the Executive jet side and I believe that they own a business park nearby? Not too mention the former Flybe mro operation and I'm told that they have high out of hours charging which I don't believe CWL has. The non passenger side of the business is what CWL has been building up with the arrival of Global trek and taking over of St Athan. It'll be interesting to see how those operations effect the airports profitability in the future.
As for selling the airport in the future I don't think any WG government could risk it without some sort of golden share and a private owner is no guarantee that WG money won't still end up in the business as any canny owner would surely try and use WG money rather than their own.
PDXCWL45 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2020, 17:05
  #1643 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 280
O
Originally Posted by caaardiff View Post
The same people that were near to bring the Airport back to profitability. CWL was part of the deal that brought Luton and Belfast to the group. They didn't really want it and that was evident in the lack of investment and restricted running that the owners put on the Airport and its management team.

I've raised this a number of time but it appears to have been ignored. There have been many changes at CWL since the WG took over. Many signs of diversification, many signs of increased passenger numbers and slow progress of increased routes and Airlines. This process hasn't just started since covid/flybe. It started 5years+ ago.
Along with all of that change came investment in the Airfield, airfield equipment and the terminal. All of which was needed but obviously affected the books.

TOM100, you clearly have a grudge against the Airport Management which is starting to show and get boring and repetitive.
Seeing as you seem to know so much, I am very curious to see you put your money where your mouth is and start providing some viable and realistic options to how you would better run CWL, without the belief that you can get anyone off the street to do senior roles, Airlines are banging at the door to use CWL and there isn't a need for ongoing investment.....
i think my views are clear - I am not hiding them - if you find my views boring and repetitive then jut don’t bother replying (I don’t ask you to). I could say the same of sycophancy and lack of questioning (but I happen to respect other people’s opinions - even if I don’t agree with them). The current necessity is to take out cost to reflect the new commercial reality. I won’t hide from the fact that the airport cannot have it both ways. If they want to take money from the WG and Welsh taxpayer they have to demonstrate value for money. Whilst I am a taxpayer and they are happy to use our money I will unashamedly ask my representatives to hold this business to account. If they want to stop pretending to be an arms length commercial organisation and become another bloated arm of the Welsh civil service then fine - be upfront and let the electorate decide.

This is is a business taking on more and more debt and not tangibly addressing how they are (even attempting) to balance the books in light of (in their own words) a drop in 80% of their business.

Should anyone who disagrees or who wants to engage in debate (even if u
you don’t agree) just be silent ?
u
TOM100 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2020, 17:16
  #1644 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Exeter is mentioned a bit and probably is a better comparing with than Bristol. I think the fact that it has less airline's and routes maybe shows that it's making it's money on other parts of the business like the Executive jet side and I believe that they own a business park nearby? Not too mention the former Flybe mro operation and I'm told that they have high out of hours charging which I don't believe CWL has. The non passenger side of the business is what CWL has been building up with the arrival of Global trek and taking over of St Athan. It'll be interesting to see how those operations effect the airports profitability in the future.
As for selling the airport in the future I don't think any WG government could risk it without some sort of golden share and a private owner is no guarantee that WG money won't still end up in the business as any canny owner would surely try and use WG money rather than their own.
Agreed, but CWL has one of the largest MRO facilities in the UK (BAMC), is the capital city of Wales, has a larger catchment area etc - so what are these businesses doing and achieving that CWL seems unable to ?
TOM100 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2020, 19:30
  #1645 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 882
God, this thread is like a twenty year groundhog day, even down to some of the same characters bickering over why CWL is/is not a business failure. Always has been (apart from tentative green shoots in the mid 2000's) and when I went through there last year and saw the fossilised tumbleweed blowing through the terminal, and always will be. If it wasn't for BAMC it would have been a housing estate years ago, which is hopefully its eventual fate rather than digging up green field around Cardiff. You've got 2 massive aviation sites within spitting distance and not enough business for one of them The dead hand of WG is all over this and I have little doubt it will stagger on for a bit longer as they try to convince the population of Wales that it is a national status symbol and has to have more money (the invisible kind) thrown at it.
Ugh, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it!
macdo is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 02:52
  #1646 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Handcross
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by macdo View Post
God, this thread is like a twenty year groundhog day, even down to some of the same characters bickering over why CWL is/is not a business failure. Always has been (apart from tentative green shoots in the mid 2000's) and when I went through there last year and saw the fossilised tumbleweed blowing through the terminal, and always will be. If it wasn't for BAMC it would have been a housing estate years ago, which is hopefully its eventual fate rather than digging up green field around Cardiff. You've got 2 massive aviation sites within spitting distance and not enough business for one of them The dead hand of WG is all over this and I have little doubt it will stagger on for a bit longer as they try to convince the population of Wales that it is a national status symbol and has to have more money (the invisible kind) thrown at it.
Ugh, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it!
LOL, somewhat of a contradiction citing two massive aviation sites while suggesting without sufficient business for either of them, perhaps a description of two massive real estate sites might have been more apt given your overall summarisation.

There is an airfield in Swindon with a Honda car plant built upon it, there is an airfield in Ellesmere Port with a Vauxhall/Opel car plant, there is an airfield in Sunderland with a Nissan car plant, there is an airfield in Derby with a Toyota car plant, there is an airfield in Hethel with a Lotus car plant, there is an airfield in Gaydon with Jaguar/Land Rover & Aston Martin car plants, Dyson have taken over Hullavington airfield for their electric cars so it was interesting to learn that Aston Martin are/were moving in to St Athan to develop a business plant there, St Athan would be ideal for non-aviation related industry with it having been perhaps the largest of ex RAF bases but without a size of runway to match and located within the country of government incentives for developing businesses.

CWL could do something to improve upon it's public transport links, by the way what the hell is happening with Cardiff Central bus station, that was one of the few perfect city rail/bus interchanges, on/off a bus and/or train within a couple of minutes walk of each other, what the hell are they doing to it?

But trains to/from the airport, CWL have designated Rhoose station as their airport rail station, Rhoose station was closed for umpteen years, is little more that an open-air platform or two on the coast, exposed to the Severn estuary, with just one train and one airport shuttle bus per hour, is located 2.2 miles from the airport and according to a route planner 6 minutes away

By comparison just 3.6 miles and 7 minutes away from the airport is Barry rail station with, not one but,three trains per hour, an average of one train per 20 minutes, with building(s) to take shelter from the elements and convenient to local services such as food & beverage outlets, why the hell are CWL focusing upon a village rail service rather than a far better town rail service?

Last edited by OC37; 20th Aug 2020 at 03:31.
OC37 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 11:26
  #1647 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: wales
Age: 59
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by OC37 View Post
LOL, somewhat of a contradiction citing two massive aviation sites while suggesting without sufficient business for either of them, perhaps a description of two massive real estate sites might have been more apt given your overall summarisation.

There is an airfield in Swindon with a Honda car plant built upon it, there is an airfield in Ellesmere Port with a Vauxhall/Opel car plant, there is an airfield in Sunderland with a Nissan car plant, there is an airfield in Derby with a Toyota car plant, there is an airfield in Hethel with a Lotus car plant, there is an airfield in Gaydon with Jaguar/Land Rover & Aston Martin car plants, Dyson have taken over Hullavington airfield for their electric cars so it was interesting to learn that Aston Martin are/were moving in to St Athan to develop a business plant there, St Athan would be ideal for non-aviation related industry with it having been perhaps the largest of ex RAF bases but without a size of runway to match and located within the country of government incentives for developing businesses.

CWL could do something to improve upon it's public transport links, by the way what the hell is happening with Cardiff Central bus station, that was one of the few perfect city rail/bus interchanges, on/off a bus and/or train within a couple of minutes walk of each other, what the hell are they doing to it?

But trains to/from the airport, CWL have designated Rhoose station as their airport rail station, Rhoose station was closed for umpteen years, is little more that an open-air platform or two on the coast, exposed to the Severn estuary, with just one train and one airport shuttle bus per hour, is located 2.2 miles from the airport and according to a route planner 6 minutes away

By comparison just 3.6 miles and 7 minutes away from the airport is Barry rail station with, not one but,three trains per hour, an average of one train per 20 minutes, with building(s) to take shelter from the elements and convenient to local services such as food & beverage outlets, why the hell are CWL focusing upon a village rail service rather than a far better town rail service?
In a few lines this has post has exposed the level of governance in the Principality; useless would be perfect adjective to describe Cardiff Council and the Idiots down the Bay. All self serving, pulling in strong public money whilst

uneducated in the real world of actually sweating assets. Still we will have a raft of sixteen year olds voting next May , they will help guide the country to prosperity, especially looking at the recent exam results. Excellent.
.

Last edited by supermarine; 20th Aug 2020 at 11:26. Reason: error
supermarine is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 12:10
  #1648 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 280
Macdo has summed it up and given food for thought. The WG aviation strategy (if they have one) should consolidate around one site if they are intent and truly see value in a national airport. Sell of St Athan airfield, use some of the proceeds to relocate Caerdav/eCube to the south side o of CWL (maybe set up an aviation/MRO hub), stop the PSO service (costing millions) to Valley (itís not like this is a vital link to some outer Hebridean island) - use funds for CWL route development, take cost out of the CWL operations and attempt to turn a profit (or at least to break even). Rather than spreading limited funds across multiple sites and strategies.

CWL (as Macdo points out like in the 00ís) can attract 2-2.5m pax and make money but has a lot of work to do.

My strong view (sorry if this bores some posters) is that it doesnít have the right leadership, drive, accountability for results etc that is required to achieve this. If you disagree thatís fine but this is my view. I feel itís just sit back, take the WG money, wait for the airlines to come back and hope for the best.

As Henry Ford said ďif you do what youíve always done, youíll get what you always gotĒ.

Last edited by TOM100; 20th Aug 2020 at 13:06.
TOM100 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 13:32
  #1649 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 1,665
No worries...Cardiff Airport & ya man with a statement is calling on the UK Government to "introduce a package of support measures for the hard pressed aviation sector including suspending APD for a number of years".
southside bobby is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 13:58
  #1650 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,501
Originally Posted by southside bobby View Post
No worries...Cardiff Airport & ya man with a statement is calling on the UK Government to "introduce a package of support measures for the hard pressed aviation sector including suspending APD for a number of years".
Along with just about everybody else in the industry, so he's not alone. Would suspending APD be much help - is it the cost putting people off flying??
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 16:02
  #1651 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
Agreed, but CWL has one of the largest MRO facilities in the UK (BAMC), is the capital city of Wales, has a larger catchment area etc - so what are these businesses doing and achieving that CWL seems unable to ?
Yes BAMC is big, as for the capital city of Wales I'm not sure that is such an advantage that a lot of people think it is. Cardiff doesn't have the profile of say Edinburgh Belfast or Dublin as a destination and Wales doesn't have the profile as a country of the others for various reasons I won't go into.
As for catchment area like Exeter that is seriously impacted by the airport next door maybe more so for CWL.
As for what CWL isn't doing that Exeter isn't i think it needs to be asked what has happened to EXT that hasn't at CWL. EXT seems to have been a more steady airport down to I'd say it's owners who have no doubt invested in the airport whereas that hasn't happened in the past at CWL.
PDXCWL45 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 16:07
  #1652 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by OC37 View Post

By comparison just 3.6 miles and 7 minutes away from the airport is Barry rail station with, not one but,three trains per hour, an average of one train per 20 minutes, with building(s) to take shelter from the elements and convenient to local services such as food & beverage outlets, why the hell are CWL focusing upon a village rail service rather than a far better town rail service?
I did read somewhere that it has been suggested that the rail link will move to Barry as part of the metro plans.
PDXCWL45 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 16:12
  #1653 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Handcross
Posts: 113
Does this look like the airport railway station of a capital city international airport to you?



OC37 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 16:12
  #1654 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by supermarine View Post
In a few lines this has post has exposed the level of governance in the Principality; useless would be perfect adjective to describe Cardiff Council and the Idiots down the Bay. All self serving, pulling in strong public money whilst

uneducated in the real world of actually sweating assets. Still we will have a raft of sixteen year olds voting next May , they will help guide the country to prosperity, especially looking at the recent exam results. Excellent.
.
Firstly Wales isn't a Principality. The Principality of Wales ended in 1536 when it was annexed by England. Secondly as for WG people need to actually vote in a different party if they want change and having 16 and 17 year olds able to vote may well help change that. But would any change effect the airport? I don't think so as all parties consider it important to the country.
PDXCWL45 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 16:18
  #1655 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
Sell of St Athan airfield, use some of the proceeds to relocate Caerdav/eCube to the south side o of CWL (maybe set up an aviation/MRO hub), stop the PSO service (costing millions) to Valley (itís not like this is a vital link to some outer Hebridean island)Ē.
Where would you fit Ecube for a start let alone Caerdav. As for the VLY service build a high speed rail link through Wales north to south then it won't be needed.
PDXCWL45 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 19:17
  #1656 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: davenport IA
Age: 66
Posts: 400
I have not seen any thing or might have missed it. Ecube has opened a big scrapping yard out in Spain. I cant remember if it was Almeria or Girona.They have out grown St Athan.
yeo valley is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 19:36
  #1657 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by yeo valley View Post
I have not seen any thing or might have missed it. Ecube has opened a big scrapping yard out in Spain. I cant remember if it was Almeria or Girona.They have out grown St Athan.

itís in Castellon. I believe this is where BAís recently (this week) retired 744 G-CIVD went to meet itís fate.....

https://ecube.aero/latest/high-deman...sh-operations/
TOM100 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2020, 23:28
  #1658 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: wales
Age: 59
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by PDXCWL45 View Post
Firstly Wales isn't a Principality. The Principality of Wales ended in 1536 when it was annexed by England. Secondly as for WG people need to actually vote in a different party if they want change and having 16 and 17 year olds able to vote may well help change that. But would any change effect the airport? I don't think so as all parties consider it important to the country.
Semantics and pedantry are not quite as bad as sarcasm , whoever you are , I admire your unrequited love 💔 for Cardiff Wales (not Principality) Airport . Perhaps we should go back to calling it Rhoose . Face it truthfully, itís a busted flush, most of the population of South Wales are prepared to travel to Lulsgate for their jollies . Scrap it and spend the millions wasted on a better infrastructure instead . You would get a more profitable return planting potatoes on the land .

i used to argue the case for the airport with the ex pilot , living in Tiago Island who has ultimately been proved correct , The corona virus has done for CWL .
supermarine is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2020, 00:20
  #1659 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Wales
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by supermarine View Post
Semantics and pedantry are not quite as bad as sarcasm , whoever you are , I admire your unrequited love 💔 for Cardiff Wales (not Principality) Airport . Perhaps we should go back to calling it Rhoose . Face it truthfully, itís a busted flush, most of the population of South Wales are prepared to travel to Lulsgate for their jollies . Scrap it and spend the millions wasted on a better infrastructure instead . You would get a more profitable return planting potatoes on the land .

i used to argue the case for the airport with the ex pilot , living in Tiago Island who has ultimately been proved correct , The corona virus has done for CWL .
CWL will recover from the effects of Covid19. Despite people like you who seem desperate to shut it down and just seem to have nothing but anything negative to say about it. So what if more people use Bristol? More people from Devon use Bristol as well yet no one calls for Exeter to be closed down.
From a personal perspective I'm sure I'll be using it in the year's to come to travel to the world just as I'll also use Bristol and Heathrow and Birmingham in the years to come.
PDXCWL45 is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2020, 05:36
  #1660 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 280
There is a lot of space at the southern end of the disused runway for Caerdav and eCube - if indeed their operations are viable.

https://www.google.com/search?safe=s...ABMWe6zNaF_T-M
TOM100 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.