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Prestwick-2

Old 18th Dec 2017, 11:00
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Looks like PIK losses narrowing as a result of an increase in military and refuelling. Sounds like thats the (only) direction they should pursue.
I've always wondered why not turn PIK into a large maintenance facility. I would imagine there is a lot of free time on it's runway/facilities, and that with Brexit on the cards, it would make sense to have some large-scale maintenance on this side of the channel.

Extreme case would be to rip up 03/21, and add a long line of hangars alongside it, leaving the taxiway to transport to 12/30. Just my own crazy idea, but long term a potential option (maybe not as extreme, but you get the jist)
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 12:45
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The airfield used to close for days in winter to all but the heaviest traffic when they closed it last time. The winter gales in the prevailing wind blow across the main runway.
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 18:47
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Did you know 747's and An124's have used the 'short?'
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 19:32
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I mean in the days of transatlantic flying. No westbound heavy going transatlantic can get off the short IIRC. Northwest once got a 747 off 21 but they only went as far as SNN back then. You would not want to land a heavy 747 on 21 as it would end up in the retail park!
So Cargolux could do PIK-LUX but likely not land from the US in the first place due landing distance available, not to mention no ILS.
Does PIK still have SRA?
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Old 18th Dec 2017, 20:21
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Yes SRAs shown in AIP
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Old 19th Dec 2017, 18:02
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
You would not want to land a heavy 747 on 21 as it would end up in the retail park!

No you wouldn't, no they wouldn't, and no it wouldn't (it's 1/2 a mile from the paved surface up a slight incline through waterlogged fields).
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 18:37
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If there is one thing we do well in Scotland, it is making runways boxed in. I think we do it on purpose.
I don't know if the ground at the retail park would have been suitable for an extension or not but the Red Line I have drawn here is over 10000ft, so there's hope for old Prestwick yet. I just don't think we will ever take a flight to Aussie.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 19:25
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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That’s quite seriously uphill going north east sadly.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 20:11
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Didn't Qantas do a one off flight from Prestwick to Australia via Singapore about 20 years ago?
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 21:18
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Went via LHR back in 1994. Was the usual LHR daystopper.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 21:23
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Thanks. Can you remember why it came to Prestwick?
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 19:16
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
Thatís quite seriously uphill going north east sadly.
The tragedy is that if they had not parked that big shop dead in line with the runway you could have had 10,000ft to the existing threshold. Like I said they wanted to destroy the airport so that they could sell it all off.
I'm not sure if the roadway existed or if that was part of the shops deal? That's how they normally get them built nowadays.

Even picking up the pieces, you could have run out strips from both existing thresholds that would land a B 748-F from either direction.
Taking off to the SW you could have 11,800ft to play with. To the NE, like you say, things are a bit constrained, whether they would ever take off that way in any case.

Despite those who do all in their power to destroy it, as an airport Prestwick has everything EDI and GLA needs but cannot have. Once the future is settled, I'm sure it will find new uses.
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 19:24
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PIK has everything GLA and EDI need? I think you'll find it's the other way around. And that thing is passengers.
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 21:25
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Thanks. Can you remember why it came to Prestwick?
Sadly no, it was sold from the PIK end, not sure what the reason was. Sat all day in bay 3. There were posters advertising the one off nature around the area. Anyone recall the reason?

03/21 was built in the 1950s and is actually into wind! There would have been a reason why 13/31 remained the main, this predates the whole GLA vs. PIK thing as GLA was at Renfrew and Abbotsinch was still RNAS Sanderling. Anyone know why 03/21 wasn’t built out for the B707s?

It’s nailing down “new uses” that make money which is really tricky.
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 22:45
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Re the Qantas 747. This was a publicity stunt in the early days of Mathew Hudson amd Hugh Lang to put the newly rejuvenated PIK back on the map as regards PAX flights The earlier stunt of potentially taking live cattle flights didnt quite hit the mark!
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 23:24
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo

03/21 was built in the 1950s and is actually into wind!


No it's not If the wind doesn't favour 30 it's favouring what was 08/26, primarily 26, unfortunately the 06 threshold has the Chevron Hangar on it and at the 26 end the Coastguard 'H', In terms of use in my experience the Runway used most is 30, followed by 12, then 21, and rarely 03. Please stop making things up
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Old 26th Dec 2017, 08:48
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Sorry but unless the met has changed massively in recent years, the main runway sufferered from major crosswinds, closing the airfield in winter in the years 03/21 was closed. The clue is that GLA was built as 24/06, EDI 25/07 and PIK 31/13. Runway in use doesn’t tell you prevailing wind, I am not making things up, been around long enough to have some context. 26/08 was closer to prevailing wind true and was the ideal, but 03/21 is still way closer then 31/13 is.
Remember the same thing happened at EDI, main was 31/13 and so many flights were diverted in winter until 25/07 was built in 1977 (ish).

And yes I know it’s 30/12, 23/05 and 24/06 now but you get the idea!
Is the Prestwick micro-climate so different that the wind swings through 80 degrees in 20 miles? Can we agree that at PIK, 21/03 is WAY closer to the prevailing wind than the main?

Also, how many cargo flights are lost in winter going direct LUX or CDG because PIK is out of crosswind limits? Used to frustarate FedEx and Atlas Air no end, part of the reason Panalpina moved to STN.

Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 26th Dec 2017 at 09:20.
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Old 26th Dec 2017, 09:21
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you guys need to get out more. Its Christmas...
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Old 26th Dec 2017, 10:10
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Skipness

You are correct here, especially the last bit. The damage to Prestwick was caused by the owners seeing aviation, as so many still do with blinkers to everything else, as bucket and spade flights and using their airport as a feeder to the London, and now the European, Hubs.
Nobody with any future vision at Prestwick would have allowed the building of the shops in the centre of the runway line. To them 03/21 was sufficient to deal with any gale force cross winds and it probably was for what they saw as their mission.
Today, aircraft have changed dramatically with massive ranges and load/cargo/fuel capacities. Most companies look for long gentle take off runs to get these loads into the air without going to maximum thrusts on their engines. An extended 03/21 would give Prestwick this desirable capability, they could always move the shops if they had to.

Getting back to the prevailing winds there is some information and a compass rose on this Met Office site that shows that the cross runway was pretty much spot-on. The wind information is down at the bottom of the page. There is a compass rose for Tiree as well that you have to avoid.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate...al-climates/ws
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Old 28th Dec 2017, 07:31
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Least PIK is still useful as a diversion destination

US Air Force plane lands at Prestwick Airport after emergency - BBC News
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