Southampton-2
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The runway width isn't really an issue - LCY is 30 metres wide and there are many airports through the Greek islands like JMK, JSI, JTR which are 30m wide and comfortably handling large aircraft like 737s, A320s and 757s. The main thing you have to watch is the reaction time in the event of an engine failure at/close to V1 is very short to keep the aircraft on the runway with asymmetric thrust. Some operators impose lower crosswind limits for narrow runways with this being a key reason. 37m width at SOU imposes no limitations for narrowbody operations.
A combination of length and performance-limiting obstacles are the main problems at SOU. The E145 cannot take a full load and becomes seriously limiting on a wet runway even on arrival. The ATR72 also has limits on departure off 02 under certain conditions. The deforestation (read "tree felling" to normal folk) exercise on Marlhill Copse removes a lot of the obstacles and will improve the limits for those operators impacted by them today. With the extension added, I'd be very surprised if it didn't make operations with the likes of the 738 and 320 possible with a full payload and a decent Med-type fuel load - you might perhaps struggle to get a 738 off to the Canaries, Sharm or Cyprus with a full load and the extra fuel, but I think that's a long way off in the distance!. Quite a lot of reasonably successful airports have performance limitations - departures off 32 at LBA being an obvious one that springs to mind, and getting off 03 at ACE is another one. Although everyone would prefer no limitations, you've only got to reduce the issues to a point where commercial operations are viable, and not necessarily remove every last limitation of any description.
A combination of length and performance-limiting obstacles are the main problems at SOU. The E145 cannot take a full load and becomes seriously limiting on a wet runway even on arrival. The ATR72 also has limits on departure off 02 under certain conditions. The deforestation (read "tree felling" to normal folk) exercise on Marlhill Copse removes a lot of the obstacles and will improve the limits for those operators impacted by them today. With the extension added, I'd be very surprised if it didn't make operations with the likes of the 738 and 320 possible with a full payload and a decent Med-type fuel load - you might perhaps struggle to get a 738 off to the Canaries, Sharm or Cyprus with a full load and the extra fuel, but I think that's a long way off in the distance!. Quite a lot of reasonably successful airports have performance limitations - departures off 32 at LBA being an obvious one that springs to mind, and getting off 03 at ACE is another one. Although everyone would prefer no limitations, you've only got to reduce the issues to a point where commercial operations are viable, and not necessarily remove every last limitation of any description.
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So a quick check on the Arrivals Board for this afternoon at EXT reveals a TOM arrival so possibly a B738...& Bournemouth reveals 4 x RYR B738 arrivals together with a TOM this afternoon.
The very type utilized being described here in an earlier post as "a terrible a/c...ancient/unsophisticated & a cheap workhorse".
Providing business for other Regionals though it does appears.
The very type utilized being described here in an earlier post as "a terrible a/c...ancient/unsophisticated & a cheap workhorse".
Providing business for other Regionals though it does appears.
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Exactly why a previous post of one airport has X amount of movements per day and the other has X, isn't an accurate account of things. There are far too many variables of aircraft type, pax loads, yields to make any assumptions as to how well one airport is currently (or will be) doing compared to another.
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On a related note, I wonder when they plan to open some of the food outlets and shops in the airport again. There are a few comments on social media about people having to go hungry as nothing is currently available. Surely with ~500 passengers now departing and arriving on weekdays it is economical to at least have something open - somewhere like Costa probably does just enough food to fill the hole for now. Maybe somewhere will open the week after next when KLM start on 31/08, when there will be more passengers at the start or end of potentially much longer journeys than now.
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Wizzair at SOU?
Before I say anything can I just remind everyone that I am a supporter of SOU as I have family in the catchment. It's convenient for them and I. I use it a lot to get to them.
Wizzair
Wizzair are launching a LGW base. There is no-way they will now launch a SOU base or even a SOU operation when LGW are trying desperately to fill the void left by others - the airport deals will be too attractive. It would dilute their LGW operation to start routes from SOU. Wizzair's attempt to start 'overflow' routes from SEN (as they couldn't get more slots at LTN, STN or LGW) is now stalled because the market has completely altered itself for the medium term. This is why it's going to take years before SOU sees 2019 levels of passenger numbers; and then it will take years to go above that level. Wizzair, in time, are far more likely to open a BRS or CWL base ahead of SOU for the South West catchment. LTN and LGW have North, South and West London catchments (which includes Southampton) areas covered.
Do existing operators need a runway extension?
Yes, but the airport MD keeps saying he wants 737's and A320's. Talk about mixed messages! If they focused the message on existing operators it's far more likely to garner support and a green light. Stop talking about attracting LCC's and larger aircraft which is throwing the conversation off track and causing concern on environmental issues and noise.
easyJet
It's already been mentioned so I don't need to repeat that easyJet are closing bases, not opening new ones. But I wonder why easyJet is not making a huge song and dance over supporting SOU with the extension? I haven't heard a peep from easyJet on this issue. This also reveals their true intention for SOU in the long-term. It is most likely not a priority and I would hazard a guess that the true issue is commercial performance rather than 'operational' performance. The SOU-GVA route seems fine at a frequency of a few times a week but why is SOU-GVA not daily or double daily (or even three times daily) like BRS or BHX etc? It's most likely because of its proximity to the London airports and their drastically low fares pulling people out of their catchment. This drastically reduces the options for a based LCC operator at SOU because it means less aircraft and therefore higher costs.
Finally - airport fees and charges
Would an extension mean lower airport charges? I don't think so - they are going to spend a significant amount just at a time when they have massive revenue short-falls. And because SOU has limited other businesses at the airport other than a commercial scheduled operation they can't recover this investment elsewhere.
Wizzair
Wizzair are launching a LGW base. There is no-way they will now launch a SOU base or even a SOU operation when LGW are trying desperately to fill the void left by others - the airport deals will be too attractive. It would dilute their LGW operation to start routes from SOU. Wizzair's attempt to start 'overflow' routes from SEN (as they couldn't get more slots at LTN, STN or LGW) is now stalled because the market has completely altered itself for the medium term. This is why it's going to take years before SOU sees 2019 levels of passenger numbers; and then it will take years to go above that level. Wizzair, in time, are far more likely to open a BRS or CWL base ahead of SOU for the South West catchment. LTN and LGW have North, South and West London catchments (which includes Southampton) areas covered.
Do existing operators need a runway extension?
Yes, but the airport MD keeps saying he wants 737's and A320's. Talk about mixed messages! If they focused the message on existing operators it's far more likely to garner support and a green light. Stop talking about attracting LCC's and larger aircraft which is throwing the conversation off track and causing concern on environmental issues and noise.
easyJet
It's already been mentioned so I don't need to repeat that easyJet are closing bases, not opening new ones. But I wonder why easyJet is not making a huge song and dance over supporting SOU with the extension? I haven't heard a peep from easyJet on this issue. This also reveals their true intention for SOU in the long-term. It is most likely not a priority and I would hazard a guess that the true issue is commercial performance rather than 'operational' performance. The SOU-GVA route seems fine at a frequency of a few times a week but why is SOU-GVA not daily or double daily (or even three times daily) like BRS or BHX etc? It's most likely because of its proximity to the London airports and their drastically low fares pulling people out of their catchment. This drastically reduces the options for a based LCC operator at SOU because it means less aircraft and therefore higher costs.
Finally - airport fees and charges
Would an extension mean lower airport charges? I don't think so - they are going to spend a significant amount just at a time when they have massive revenue short-falls. And because SOU has limited other businesses at the airport other than a commercial scheduled operation they can't recover this investment elsewhere.
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Volotea would seem a natural fit. No bases within the UK yet. Mind you post pandemic, there are going to be some really attractive airports with plentiful slots, so Southampton remaining open and viable is the first strep,
Volotea did try in summer 2016 with SOU as one of their own sell-able low-cost scheduled destinations (not charters, which were still being flown for TUI Holidays) but sadly this twice weekly flight to Palma did not last long...even with fares starting at £21.99
Flybe was still flying to Palma then too, as was TUI who were selling both packages and flight onlys on their own Volotea charters...
Since then Volotea have not touched the UK, but decided to branch out on the Greek Islands domestic market from ATH, along with their France & Italy Ops.
Fingers burnt I guess...
They are usually cheap, and sort of cheerful but their track record with UK customers leaves a lot to be desired and their name is not up there at the top.
of course the other problem with Southampton is that its not only a narrow runway but its not aligned with the prevailing winds, today would be rather interesting throwing a heavy 320 at that runway in the wet with currently a near limiting cross wind, not far to divert to Bournemouth though with a longer into wind runway. the cross wind also comes from the "bad" side mostly leading to more unstable approaches and go arounds
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of course the other problem with Southampton is that its not only a narrow runway but its not aligned with the prevailing winds, today would be rather interesting throwing a heavy 320 at that runway in the wet with currently a near limiting cross wind, not far to divert to Bournemouth though with a longer into wind runway. the cross wind also comes from the "bad" side mostly leading to more unstable approaches and go arounds
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of course the other problem with Southampton is that its not only a narrow runway but its not aligned with the prevailing winds, today would be rather interesting throwing a heavy 320 at that runway in the wet with currently a near limiting cross wind, not far to divert to Bournemouth though with a longer into wind runway. the cross wind also comes from the "bad" side mostly leading to more unstable approaches and go arounds
In fact, if you want to take a look at an airport with great facilities and that had tons of money thrown at it look up Ciudad Real Central Airport which is just outside Madrid. Despite its big runway and all its investment it is currently used as an aircraft graveyard. Remind you of anywhere?
The really pathetic part about this wave of negativity is that it is largely just an excuse for grown adults to get a kick out of winding other people up, in other words trolling. Some of you really need to take a hard look in the mirror if that is how you chose to spend your time.
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Rivet Joint
You really need to calm down and to take a chill pill! Bournemouth Runway ,landing aids,and extensive opening hours are a major asset. SOU runway limitations ,airside lack of development and reliance on domestic routes presents a major challenge to future operations. Many contributors to this blog have stated the obvious,and that is Easy,Wizz etc are going to go concentrate on London operations,SOU will not figure in there plans.Bournemouth will survive this aviation crisis due to its assets,SOU even with a runway extension will flounder,as many commuters work from home rather then take the plane. Time will tell,but you need to get out of the Southampton fantasy bubble and face the reality of the aviation crisis.
You really need to calm down and to take a chill pill! Bournemouth Runway ,landing aids,and extensive opening hours are a major asset. SOU runway limitations ,airside lack of development and reliance on domestic routes presents a major challenge to future operations. Many contributors to this blog have stated the obvious,and that is Easy,Wizz etc are going to go concentrate on London operations,SOU will not figure in there plans.Bournemouth will survive this aviation crisis due to its assets,SOU even with a runway extension will flounder,as many commuters work from home rather then take the plane. Time will tell,but you need to get out of the Southampton fantasy bubble and face the reality of the aviation crisis.
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Covid Impact
Meanwhile, life goes on.
The aviation industry is in the midst of its biggest ever existential crisis. As things stand today, IATA are expecting recovery to 2019 levels around 2025, others have different views. Paris Airports for instance expect recovery by 2027. The generally accepted rate of recovery around the industry is building this year from -50 to 60% below 2019 traffic, rising to -30% in 2021, -10-15% in 2022 and so on. Of course no one knows for sure.
Many airlines and airports have had little or no income for six months, they are bleeding cash at unsustainable levels, there is a very real prospect that more will go bust and disappear this winter, meanwhile, those with a good balance sheet will expand into the gaps arising. Just as at SOU routes vacated by Flybe are being picked up by others - but for the foreseeable future at a much reduced capacity. LGW for instance is likely to see more Ryanair and Wizz, taking advantage of the doubts about return of Virgin, Norwegian and others.
The financial press is reporting that distressed airlines and airports are selling assets to raise cash, such as sale and lease back of aircraft, buildings, aircraft engines and land. Terminals are being closed and mothballed around the world.
For most regional airports in the UK and elsewhere, survival is the objective for at least the next two years, then recovery. Investment on the other hand is a long way off. The only thing that airports can currently control is cost, they have no significant ability to drive revenue for which many are certainly desperate.
In the meantime, airports are running on skeleton staffing levels, thousands of airport staff have already been made redundant in the UK alone. Not to mention the airline redundancies and those in air traffic control. Domestic and leisure travel is expected to lead the recovery when it comes.... so, if you want to support your local airport, there is only one strategy that might work; USE IT... or perhaps more than ever before, you will lose it!
FF
The aviation industry is in the midst of its biggest ever existential crisis. As things stand today, IATA are expecting recovery to 2019 levels around 2025, others have different views. Paris Airports for instance expect recovery by 2027. The generally accepted rate of recovery around the industry is building this year from -50 to 60% below 2019 traffic, rising to -30% in 2021, -10-15% in 2022 and so on. Of course no one knows for sure.
Many airlines and airports have had little or no income for six months, they are bleeding cash at unsustainable levels, there is a very real prospect that more will go bust and disappear this winter, meanwhile, those with a good balance sheet will expand into the gaps arising. Just as at SOU routes vacated by Flybe are being picked up by others - but for the foreseeable future at a much reduced capacity. LGW for instance is likely to see more Ryanair and Wizz, taking advantage of the doubts about return of Virgin, Norwegian and others.
The financial press is reporting that distressed airlines and airports are selling assets to raise cash, such as sale and lease back of aircraft, buildings, aircraft engines and land. Terminals are being closed and mothballed around the world.
For most regional airports in the UK and elsewhere, survival is the objective for at least the next two years, then recovery. Investment on the other hand is a long way off. The only thing that airports can currently control is cost, they have no significant ability to drive revenue for which many are certainly desperate.
In the meantime, airports are running on skeleton staffing levels, thousands of airport staff have already been made redundant in the UK alone. Not to mention the airline redundancies and those in air traffic control. Domestic and leisure travel is expected to lead the recovery when it comes.... so, if you want to support your local airport, there is only one strategy that might work; USE IT... or perhaps more than ever before, you will lose it!
FF
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Any chance that admin could get rid of the two teenage tantrum-throwers. They are getting seriously annoying and contributing nothing constructive to this thread.
Airbus aircraft A318/A319/A320/A321 with a MTOW<68T are compatible with 30m wide runways as per ICAO. However, due to Airbus practices to certify the aircraft, it is not possible to operate these aircraft on runway width below 45m without additional considerations
Also, Boeing article showing decreased cross wind limits and need to increase VMCG leading to higher V1 and therefor more risk of a high speed abandon and more time for engine to fail on take off.
http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/Nar...Operations.pdf
not being negative , just bringing facts from many years flying both airbus and Boeing