Southampton-2

[stewyb]

Looks like Bari & Split already dropped by FlyLolo for S19, more reductions to come?

[Reversethrustset]

Yes but in what direction have the discussions taken place? It's like a salesman knocking on your door, if the product sounds mildly interesting then you'll sit there and listen. The master plan is bound to state the presence of a LCC because that's what SOU airport wants but whether the LCCs want SOU airport is an entirely different kettle of fish. Airlines evaluate airports all the time for viability, isn't it telling that SOU hasn't really attracted anyone major flying major, frequent routes for years and years, much the same as BOH hasn't? There's a reason why airlines aren't in these airports in abundance, it's not like SOU airport is going to approach easyjet, Ryanair etc and then those airlines say "oh yeah, operate from SOU airport, why didn't we think of that?".

[The Nutts Mutts]

Could the reason perhaps be that SOU's physical characteristics render it unviable for major European airlines? It is currently viable for an airline operating regional turboprop equipment such as Flybe, hence why they have a large base there.
To me the masterplan looks designed to make SOU more viable for short/medium haul jet operators in a way that it isn't currently. The owners have to do this really, as with the current performance and airfield constraints the airport is trapped in a segment of the market that appears to be becoming less viable as the years go by, so I think they're attempting to future-proof the airport by equipping it for the next level of operator up from the regional turboprops it currently caters for.
For a recent example of this, see Southend. In my view once the infrastructure is in place operators will start to arrive.

[canberra97]

Originally Posted by The Nutts Mutts

Could the reason perhaps be that SOU's physical characteristics render it unviable for major European airlines? It is currently viable for an airline operating regional turboprop equipment such as Flybe, hence why they have a large base there.
To me the masterplan looks designed to make SOU more viable for short/medium haul jet operators in a way that it isn't currently. The owners have to do this really, as with the current performance and airfield constraints the airport is trapped in a segment of the market that appears to be becoming less viable as the years go by, so I think they're attempting to future-proof the airport by equipping it for the next level of operator up from the regional turboprops it currently caters for.
For a recent example of this, see Southend. In my view once the infrastructure is in place operators will start to arrive.

Exactly the case and may I add well written, it's the airports infrastructure that's holding back any future airline expansion not the demand or the wealthy catchment area.

[stewyb]

Well said guys, build it and they will most definitely come!

[Reversethrustset]

I still think it's wild assumptions and opinions, the reality is you/we don't know the reason why they are not present, the airport development could just be a small cog that makes up the flywheel. There could be an abundance of reasons why, it may not be just as simple as the runway length/lack of parking etc. Let's hope that if/when it is developed you're right and they do come.

[AirportPlanner1]

Originally Posted by stewyb

Same could have been said about a Southend EZY base with both LTN and Stansted on the doorstep but this didn’t stop them

The difference between north London and south London is that there wasn’t/isn’t the capacity at LTN or STN to replicate the dominance they enjoy at LGW. The lines are getting increasingly blurred now but over the last few years across LTN/SEN/STN they’ve had a slightly different offer at each base. Almost all routes were also offered from LGW.

If they had a 60 aircraft base at either LTN or STN they may have been less interested in a SEN base. As it is, they do have a 60 aircraft base at LGW and they also have a base at BRS. As others have said I can’t see them diluting those. I’m also not sure why you would want EZY, as SOU physically can’t handle too many Airbuses and you would end up with far inferior frequency to what BE offer and fewer routes. Make no mistake, EZY would go for key bread and butter routes like EDI/AMS.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Originally Posted by Reversethrustset

I still think it's wild assumptions and opinions

Of course it is, it's PPRuNe!

[BAladdy]

Originally Posted by Sharklet_321

Could it be that an LCC is providing the seats to Flylolo next summer? And this LCC has not yet released their own flights for sale? It could be easyJet or Jet2 from the look of the destination list.

Either that or they are utilising the Stobart Air ERJ-195 that is being grounded at Southend.

Whatever aircraft is used it will be kept very busy. All the information shown based on the flight information currently showing for travel during the last week of July 2019.

Monday

LOL0001 SOU 06:30 EFL 11:45
LOL0002 EFL 12:15 SOU 13:45
LOL088 SOU 14:45 CFU 19:55
LOL089 CFU 20:40 SOU 22:00

Tuesday
LOL0007 SOU 06:30 JSI 11:45
LOL0008 JSI 12:30 SOU 14:00

LOL0009 SOU 22:30 SKG 03:55

Wednesday
LOL0010 SKG 05:00 SOU 06:30

LOL0013 SOU 21:30 KGS 03:30

Thursday
LOL0014 KGS 04:30 SOU 06:30
LOL0015 SOU 07:30 TIV 11:30
LOL0016 TIV 12:15 SOU 14:15
LOL098 SOU 14:00 PRN 18:00
LOL099 PRN 18:45 SOU 20:45

Friday
LOL0019 SOU 06:30 JSI 11:45
LOL0020 JSI 12:30 SOU 14:00

Saturday
LOL0025 SOU 07:30 RMU 11:00
LOL0026 RMU 12:00 SOU 13:30
LOL0027 SOU 14:30 DBV 18:20
LOL0028 DBV 19:20 SOU 21:10
LOL0029 SOU 22:10 KGS 04:10

Sunday
LOL0030 KGS 05:00 SOU 07:00
LOL0031 SOU 08:00 BOJ 13:30
LOL0032 BOJ 14:15 SOU 15:35
LOL0033 SOU 16:35 LEI 20:15
LOL0034 LEI 21:00 SOU 22:50

Still a few gaps in the schedule. Does anyone know what day the SPU flights were planned to operate

[EI-BUD]

I don't believe that there is any truth in the suggestion they easyJet would avoid basing aircraft at SOU for fear of diluting their LGW pax etc. They'd quite happily expand their south of England business, and moving SOU pax away from LGW would allow them to attract yet more pax via their LGW base.

Clearly easyJet will move away from A319 in the coming years, and focus in on 320/321. As suggested these 320/321's may have performance restrictions at SOU, rendering it less attractive than other bases across UK and EU. Let's not forget the airport is competing with airports across the EU for based aircraft, e.g. NTE is getting a base, you can be sure that the region in France is sweeting a deal that SOU may never consider..

Another big item here is Flybe's controlling shrare at the airport; they are a big customer and can call a lot of the shots, you can be sure that they've brought their share to bear in terms of leverage...

[The Nutts Mutts]

Split was planned for Friday afternoon/evening

[rog747]

EI-BUD

EZY's A319's have CF6 edit CFM56 derated engines and thus have more payload/WAT restrictions out of SOU (and SEN) than the more powerful and larger capacity A320.

The EZY 180 seat A320 to TFS from SEN loses just 10 seats and the ACE 5.
The A321 is probably not suitable for SOU

I gather all the 319's as you mentioned, are going.

FYI
Members of the public will have the opportunity to meet with representatives from SOU airport to discuss the Master Plan in more detail and share their feedback. A series of drop-in sessions will be held at the following venues:

• Friday 5 October – Shawford Parish Hall, 17:00 – 21:00
• Monday 8 October – Holiday Inn Eastleigh, 17:00 – 21:00
• Tuesday 16 October – Bitterne Park School, 17:00 – 21:00
• Saturday 20 October – Southampton Airport, 09:00 – 13:00

[rog747]

Originally Posted by BAladdy

Whatever aircraft is used it will be kept very busy. All the information shown based on the flight information currently showing for travel during the last week of July 2019.

Monday

LOL0001 SOU 06:30 EFL 11:45
LOL0002 EFL 12:15 SOU 13:45
LOL088 SOU 14:45 CFU 19:55
LOL089 CFU 20:40 SOU 22:00

Tuesday
LOL0007 SOU 06:30 JSI 11:45
LOL0008 JSI 12:30 SOU 14:00

LOL0009 SOU 22:30 SKG 03:55

Wednesday
LOL0010 SKG 05:00 SOU 06:30

LOL0013 SOU 21:30 KGS 03:30

Thursday
LOL0014 KGS 04:30 SOU 06:30
LOL0015 SOU 07:30 TIV 11:30
LOL0016 TIV 12:15 SOU 14:15
LOL098 SOU 14:00 PRN 18:00
LOL099 PRN 18:45 SOU 20:45

Friday
LOL0019 SOU 06:30 JSI 11:45
LOL0020 JSI 12:30 SOU 14:00

Saturday
LOL0025 SOU 07:30 RMU 11:00
LOL0026 RMU 12:00 SOU 13:30
LOL0027 SOU 14:30 DBV 18:20
LOL0028 DBV 19:20 SOU 21:10
LOL0029 SOU 22:10 KGS 04:10

Sunday
LOL0030 KGS 05:00 SOU 07:00
LOL0031 SOU 08:00 BOJ 13:30
LOL0032 BOJ 14:15 SOU 15:35
LOL0033 SOU 16:35 LEI 20:15
LOL0034 LEI 21:00 SOU 22:50

Still a few gaps in the schedule. Split and Bari were canned

Thank you BALaddy for all the hard work here. Very interesting.
Always very nice from an Ops person perspective to see a schedule laid out like this.

Please - I am not being doom and gloom, just my observations from my experiences
.
Single aircraft SOU based, the Lolo schedule looks a 'very tight fit' with not much leeway for playing catch up - unless access to a back-up aircraft.
(Anyone remembering Air Cymru, or Amber Air with 1, or even 2 planes - yikes the delays took days to play catch up)
Engineering has a window for down time all day WEDS and on some nights.

Goodness!
Night holiday charter flights - That must be a first for SOU in a long time.

On a general positive:
There are a lot of flights here to desirable, and very sellable Greek Islands: Corfu (Paxos) Kefalonia Skiathos (Skopelos Alonissos)
TWO night flights per week to KOS (rather ambitious IMHO) plus mainland Salonika (Thessaloniki, Pelon, Halkidiki)

I await with interest at the SOU Open days to see how, and know more of this operation.
My gut feeling is that they must have a tie-up with a large Tour Operator to sell package holidays.
TUI, nor the obvious Sunvil have not announced any expansion for S19 to fly from SOU (as yet) and it is getting late in the day to announce S19

[MARKEYD]

TUI have put Skiathos into the booking system again for 2019 but like this year , they never actually went on sale

I suspect for next year , TUI would want a bit more substance as to who is actually operating the flights before they commit possibly ?

[Torquelink]

EZY's A319's have CF6 derated engines

That'll be some de-rate . . !

[MATaxi]

Originally Posted by The Nutts Mutts

Of course it is, it's PPRuNe!

So therefore on that premise , according to the "man who knows a man who knows a man" who I know , Easy are at the front of the queue and are regularly in contact with the airport management regarding the expansion plan. They are potentially thinking about opening "one or two" routes from S20 while the expansion gathers pace and to check loads before committing further resource. Having a "Base" is not on the cards until circa S22.

The more interesting crumb of info is that Wizz are closely monitoring the potential Easy move into Southampton and are mooting the idea of an aircraft , maybe two , based there circa W21 onwards ( earlier than Easy ) , to route out to Warsaw , Krakow and apparently Gdansk. A destination as yet unsubstantiated in Romania is also up for consideration. They do not want to compete with Easy obviously but are hugely aware of the local market for these particular destinations and the fact that at the moment , it all goes to LTN/LGW/LHR .

[FrequentlyFlying]

Currently LoLo are the only real ACTUAL expansion seen at SOU the rest is anything from ‘planned for’ or ‘fantasy airport league’ stuff - no one has actual confirmation of any LCC - I’d imagine the curfew will need to be challenged also - not a lot said of that, but to max a small base be handy if they get of this restriction as much as a runway extension. Anyone going to an open day could you ask about the curfew? Be great to hear the airports views. We won’t even go there with Brexit impact. So LoLo finding their feet and trialing routes is really positive if it only provides data for the future at worst. I hope they find there niche before the funding stops as variety and choice is great at any airport!
As for LoLo selling seats on a Jet 2 base (mentioned previously) what’s in this for Jet2? They would surely be better selling direct and their own massively expanding holiday business sweeping up all before it in its target market or am I missing something? Their loads are surely in the 90’s % and I am sure if they weren’t going to be that they wouldn’t invest anywhere and not be selling bulk to A N Other - they are clearly short of planes as it is.

[SWBKCB]

An extended runway and extended hours will be a hard sell locally.

How far could Jet2's 738's get from the extended runway?

[TCAS FAN]

SWBKCB

Forget extended hours, SOU are locked in to virtually the current due to their Section 106 Agreement with Local planning Authorities.

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
Given that there was approval for the runway extension,what time scale are we talking about for completion?
Also what are the realistic destinations with a loaded 737-800/A320?
There seems to be a lot of speculation without the known facts!