Southampton-2
Such attitudes do make posting of here less appealing it must be said vectisman. Criticism and cynicism are obviously to be expected, especially about any 'new' or unusual proposals, given how hard it is to be successful in this industry. But it is a shame to see people instantly write things off on here before the full facts and information about it have been made clear.
Planespeaking's comments are to a considerable extent true. However I would think some of the reasons against using a F70 for charter ops also have a benefit as well. They are rather old, although far older aircraft are being used by small and large operators at the moment (Jet2's 733's would be one example). But I would expect this leads to the lease/ownership costs of them to be low, and from what I understand the Fokkers have always fared quite well from a reliability and maintenance side, probably rather better than your average E-Jet if Flybe's are anything to go by (based on personal experiences). The fairly high fuel consumption is very much a negative point especially considering the length of some of the routes.
I would think they are/were unattractive to tour operators due to their size, and the fact that most tour operators aren't looking at a niche market in the same sense as Flylolo (<4hrs block time destinations from an airport with a 1700m runway in a reasonably affluent area with no *direct* competition).
stewyb's comments about the lack of availability and general lack of of F70's in existence (I think Fokker built 47 before they went bust) are also relevant to this. In that regard, I struggle to think of any other aircraft which could fit the role. An F100 or RJ-85 doesn't have the range required, an E170 or 190 could work(?), but I expect the lease/ownership costs of both are a lot higher, especially for the latter owing to their popularity and fact that they are newer designs still in wide use with many major carriers.
Then it's the question of if there are any carriers who have these aircraft available to lease in the peak summer season, to which the answer is presumably very few!
With regard to the operation I hope we see it go ahead, but I do agree some of the destinations seem a little questionable (Pristina seems like a niche market even from London, Murcia's new airport opening at the end of this year is apparently not very well located and serving Tivat as well a Dubrovnik from the get go seems somewhat ambitious to me. It is also good to see the operation has the back of a former TUI boss, hopefully a sign of some credibility.
Planespeaking's comments are to a considerable extent true. However I would think some of the reasons against using a F70 for charter ops also have a benefit as well. They are rather old, although far older aircraft are being used by small and large operators at the moment (Jet2's 733's would be one example). But I would expect this leads to the lease/ownership costs of them to be low, and from what I understand the Fokkers have always fared quite well from a reliability and maintenance side, probably rather better than your average E-Jet if Flybe's are anything to go by (based on personal experiences). The fairly high fuel consumption is very much a negative point especially considering the length of some of the routes.
I would think they are/were unattractive to tour operators due to their size, and the fact that most tour operators aren't looking at a niche market in the same sense as Flylolo (<4hrs block time destinations from an airport with a 1700m runway in a reasonably affluent area with no *direct* competition).
stewyb's comments about the lack of availability and general lack of of F70's in existence (I think Fokker built 47 before they went bust) are also relevant to this. In that regard, I struggle to think of any other aircraft which could fit the role. An F100 or RJ-85 doesn't have the range required, an E170 or 190 could work(?), but I expect the lease/ownership costs of both are a lot higher, especially for the latter owing to their popularity and fact that they are newer designs still in wide use with many major carriers.
Then it's the question of if there are any carriers who have these aircraft available to lease in the peak summer season, to which the answer is presumably very few!
With regard to the operation I hope we see it go ahead, but I do agree some of the destinations seem a little questionable (Pristina seems like a niche market even from London, Murcia's new airport opening at the end of this year is apparently not very well located and serving Tivat as well a Dubrovnik from the get go seems somewhat ambitious to me. It is also good to see the operation has the back of a former TUI boss, hopefully a sign of some credibility.
a charter series from SOU or from any airport that has no based a/c there is fraught with additional cost such as empty positioning legs or using a W pattern which often involves often putting crews in taxi's halfway across the UK from home bases and Hotac for them maybe too>
this all adds to the cost operation and its why Tour Ops like TUI for instance use Volotea on their SOU and SEN spanish routes and Freebird for their Turkey routes from BOH - so the flights 'start' at the foreign origin and not in the UK - hence no W's or empty legs/positioning flights
In the past eurocypria and helios did the Cyprus flights again starting at origin
Palmair before they started using their own dedicated a/c had to build in the cost of positioning in BCAL, Airways Cymru or Dan Air for instance each time they flew out of BOH
yes SOU home based Flybe are doing some charter work it seems but it is very limited
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rog747
With regards to Austrian and their F70 fleet they have all been retired along with their F100's.
Around 2000 British Midland Airways operated a F70 to Innsbruck from Southampton for one maybe two seasons on behalf of Inghams and Crystal Ski.
With regards to Austrian and their F70 fleet they have all been retired along with their F100's.
Around 2000 British Midland Airways operated a F70 to Innsbruck from Southampton for one maybe two seasons on behalf of Inghams and Crystal Ski.
ta for that - A/arrows were doing ski and lakes flights with the F70 as well from BRS back in the day too
thread of interest
nowt like this since the sad demise of good old Palmair in 2010 (that long!)
seeing that Lolo has some ex Avro and Thomson guys at the helm maybe they can make this work
it just with what and how.....
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Well, if true then that is fantastic news. It also seems like a very sensible route choice- a base at one end, a well-known route from SOU and one which has/will see capacity reductions from Volotea and Flybe when the 195s go.
4 per week also leaves Flybe a niche in which to operate if they choose to. I suspect on this route EZY will drive their own demand by putting SOU on the radar of people who may not have considered it before, as well as stopping some leakage to BOH, LHR and LGW.
If and when they announce it that will mean that EZY have gone from having no presence at SOU whatsoever to competing on the busiest ski and sun routes from there in just over a year and a half.
4 per week also leaves Flybe a niche in which to operate if they choose to. I suspect on this route EZY will drive their own demand by putting SOU on the radar of people who may not have considered it before, as well as stopping some leakage to BOH, LHR and LGW.
If and when they announce it that will mean that EZY have gone from having no presence at SOU whatsoever to competing on the busiest ski and sun routes from there in just over a year and a half.
Unless the engines on the newly to be delivered E175s are uprated from those currently in service, I believe that the take-off weight restrictions will make operation to southern Spain/Balearics uneconomic.
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I do have a lot of hopes for easyJet at Southampton, fantastic little airport! Southampton has a great niche, and as long as it doesn't outgrow that, I think it will remain one of the best airports in the country, in my opinion.
My main hope is that EZY doesn't try and go head to head with BE, domestically. BFS and EDI... Maybe, but no more. I could quite easily see EZY thrash Flybe on routes like NCL, but based on their track record with NCL-STN/LGW, abysmal schedules NCL-BRS and half arsed NCL-BFS rotations... I'll keep the x3 daily Dash 8 please!
Your Alicantes, Palma's, Malaga's... Fire away EZY!
My main hope is that EZY doesn't try and go head to head with BE, domestically. BFS and EDI... Maybe, but no more. I could quite easily see EZY thrash Flybe on routes like NCL, but based on their track record with NCL-STN/LGW, abysmal schedules NCL-BRS and half arsed NCL-BFS rotations... I'll keep the x3 daily Dash 8 please!
Your Alicantes, Palma's, Malaga's... Fire away EZY!
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SOU could easily sustain a 3 aircraft base possibly 4 or 5. Tbh, a lot of the Flybe domestics need some healthy competition especially EDI BFS, how about a new INV service? JER would also be interesting and very fast route for them similar to LPL-BFS or LPL-IOM.
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Thread Starter
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Although Doncaster has no runway length restrictions like SOU. As TCAS Fan has advised, the E75 will be restricted in summer months I'm assuming due to engine performance and weight limits versus field length (hot weather performance)!
stewyb
Got it in one. When the intent to order the E75 was first announced it was hailed (by SOU management) as the aircraft that would push PAX figures through 2 million. A smaller version of the E95 was apparently going to open up many more European and Scandinavian destinations. The term "pocket rocket" was heard on a number of occassions!
All fell flat when Maybe announced that they were going for the de-rated engines, presumably to reduce operating costs. Off a relatively short runway as SOU this knocked the expansion plans on the head due to the impact on take-off weights and thereby payload restrictions.that would result.
Got it in one. When the intent to order the E75 was first announced it was hailed (by SOU management) as the aircraft that would push PAX figures through 2 million. A smaller version of the E95 was apparently going to open up many more European and Scandinavian destinations. The term "pocket rocket" was heard on a number of occassions!
All fell flat when Maybe announced that they were going for the de-rated engines, presumably to reduce operating costs. Off a relatively short runway as SOU this knocked the expansion plans on the head due to the impact on take-off weights and thereby payload restrictions.that would result.
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TCAS FAN
Thanks for the informative info(yet again).regarding the rumour of possible Easy Palma flights in 2019,what are the implications for SOU?.I presume it would be a A320,what are the limitations with the runway restrictions?.
Obviously any expansion at the airport to accommodate Easy would require apron adjustments etc,which brings us back to the old chestnut of airside development or lack of!
Thanks for the informative info(yet again).regarding the rumour of possible Easy Palma flights in 2019,what are the implications for SOU?.I presume it would be a A320,what are the limitations with the runway restrictions?.
Obviously any expansion at the airport to accommodate Easy would require apron adjustments etc,which brings us back to the old chestnut of airside development or lack of!
RW20
Do not have current performance data on A320. Without doubt it will be weight limited, but obviously Easy are comfortable with that. If they are intending use of the Neo's, should be a significant improvement in take-off weights/payload increase, but IMHO will still be weight restricted.
Do not have current performance data on A320. Without doubt it will be weight limited, but obviously Easy are comfortable with that. If they are intending use of the Neo's, should be a significant improvement in take-off weights/payload increase, but IMHO will still be weight restricted.
