Southampton-2
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I understand that no further development can really occur on the western side of the runway, given that no aviation development is allowed within 250m (at a guess) of residential dwellings. Since they’ve built houses next to lakeside, that blocks any development, so a new taxiway would have to be on the other side of the runway which surely defeats the object of creating it.
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Simple economics and the Return On Investment?
When the bean counters say it’s worth doing then the investment may happen (usually with a delay!).
It’s a lovely thought that this type of work would be completed ahead of time but that’s reliant on the confidence of business forecasts (and any synergies with other on-going work which may allow some cost reductions in the new project...e.g. equipment already on-site for Project A saves cost of deployment for Project B, etc, etc.)
Only those people who have accurate reports of costs, forecasts and risks can determine when is the best time to invest in order to maximise any potential return.
Even armed with that information things can, and do, go wrong.
If it was the choice between a pound in your pocket or a white elephant what would you do? (Or, more likely, a pound in debt for the same white elephant...)
When the bean counters say it’s worth doing then the investment may happen (usually with a delay!).
It’s a lovely thought that this type of work would be completed ahead of time but that’s reliant on the confidence of business forecasts (and any synergies with other on-going work which may allow some cost reductions in the new project...e.g. equipment already on-site for Project A saves cost of deployment for Project B, etc, etc.)
Only those people who have accurate reports of costs, forecasts and risks can determine when is the best time to invest in order to maximise any potential return.
Even armed with that information things can, and do, go wrong.
If it was the choice between a pound in your pocket or a white elephant what would you do? (Or, more likely, a pound in debt for the same white elephant...)
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Sorry but you are not talking sense. You only have to look at the discrepancies between the arrivals and departure boards on any given day to see that the majority of arrivals (even the ones that arrive early) are departing late. Of course this could be down to a number of reasons but SOU prides itself on its car to plane time duration, and from personal experience I could not find fault with that. It stands to reason that the lack of any real taxiways is a huge handicap with planes effectively having to sit on stands whilst the runway becomes free. If it was not an important cog in an efficient airport why do all airports have them? Apart from LCY, which other airport in the whole of the UK have backtracking of the runway? Even if this point could be argued, your point is flawed in that a well run business plans for the future, it does not wait until it is crippled before putting its hand in its pocket. The low cost operators would be turned off long before that.
All airports have them? what about Cardiff, Exeter to name a couple and I'm sure there's more that I can find, I just can't be bothered to go search for them.
I think the sad fact of the matter is that you lot on here want the investment and growth more than the SOU management want it. At the end of the day you can want it all you want, it doesn't make a jot of difference, if the management don't want it then you can dream up any plans you want, but at the end of the day your opinions, dreams and aspirations are irrelevant. If you troll through the last 2 years of pages on this thread it will reveal that every third page contains the same old conversations over and over again like a stuck record. No doubt we'll have a 2 week break then you will go over the same stuff - again. Well I'm afraid it doesn't make the management inept or other people's opinions wrong, it just means they have different aspirations to you, that's life, get over it.
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I think everyone is getting carried away with the thought of a full length taxiway but as already stated it's not entirely needed at present although desirable but what has been mentioned numerous times and steweyb points out that a strip of tarmac from stand 14 to the runway would be sufficient and could well be installed at the same time as the runway is resurfaced.
At least the backtracking would be shorter than it currently is without the cost of a full taxiway.
I always thought it was strange that this wasn't incorporated into the original redevelopment in 1991 when the apron in that area was built.
At least the backtracking would be shorter than it currently is without the cost of a full taxiway.
I always thought it was strange that this wasn't incorporated into the original redevelopment in 1991 when the apron in that area was built.
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There are plenty of airports that get on just fine without the need for a full length taxiway. LBA springs to mind, both relatively similar for size/pax movements
Look at what LCY did to mitigate delays caused by backtracks on 27.
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2017-03-02.pdf
Due to the planning restrictions imposed on distance between aircraft and houses on Southampton Road, an eastern location for a parallel taxiway is the only option available.
What's the optimum runway utilisation/cost option, the LCY solution or parallel taxiway? Might even add the starter strip with the same project?
Either way something needs to be done if SOU are to expand - not forgetting additional apron parking space!
Did we all misunderstand, and it is in fact an Autumn 2018 announcement on airport development?
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2017-03-02.pdf
Due to the planning restrictions imposed on distance between aircraft and houses on Southampton Road, an eastern location for a parallel taxiway is the only option available.
What's the optimum runway utilisation/cost option, the LCY solution or parallel taxiway? Might even add the starter strip with the same project?
Either way something needs to be done if SOU are to expand - not forgetting additional apron parking space!
Did we all misunderstand, and it is in fact an Autumn 2018 announcement on airport development?
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TCAS FAN
My sentiments entirely,there has been no announcement on airport development as advertised early Autumn,therefore I believe there is little to get excited about airside,and therefore I expect SOU to plod on as much as it had done recently.
My sentiments entirely,there has been no announcement on airport development as advertised early Autumn,therefore I believe there is little to get excited about airside,and therefore I expect SOU to plod on as much as it had done recently.
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Reversethrustset
I have made my mind up, I merely suggested that other factors could play a part largely to preempt anyone using that as an argument. I will have to take your word that Cardiff and Exeter also have backtracking of the runway but I think its fair to say that those two airports are a lot less busy than SOU. Lets not forget that those airports also have way more space than SOU and therefore larger stands etc. I think it is important to remember that it is not just the runway that is handicapped, but also the stands. Maybe someone can confirm, but I reckon no more than two aircraft at a time can be queuing to access the runway. This means departures are having to wait on stands. The runway is inefficient and lets also not forget that most the aircraft using SOU are based here. Small delays will mount up over the course of the day which in turn impact the whole schedule. BE might not care with their monopoly on the regional sector in the UK, EZY I suspect will not want aircraft from other bases being held up at an inefficient and unambitious airport like SOU.
The argument about the bean counters is probably right but as others have said look at SEN and LCY. Southend was nothing more than a place to park unwanted aircraft not long ago. The owner put their hand in their pocket and now EZY have created a sizable base as a result. LCY is owned by a pension fund, who acknowledge it becomes stretched at peak times so are putting their hand in their pocket. Both have short runways but the investment will make them more efficient.
I will agree with you that this thread has turned into a farce lately, historically it was the BOH thread that left me with a case of deja vu. I think this is largely to do with the MD boasting about the announcement of investment in the autumn though.
I have made my mind up, I merely suggested that other factors could play a part largely to preempt anyone using that as an argument. I will have to take your word that Cardiff and Exeter also have backtracking of the runway but I think its fair to say that those two airports are a lot less busy than SOU. Lets not forget that those airports also have way more space than SOU and therefore larger stands etc. I think it is important to remember that it is not just the runway that is handicapped, but also the stands. Maybe someone can confirm, but I reckon no more than two aircraft at a time can be queuing to access the runway. This means departures are having to wait on stands. The runway is inefficient and lets also not forget that most the aircraft using SOU are based here. Small delays will mount up over the course of the day which in turn impact the whole schedule. BE might not care with their monopoly on the regional sector in the UK, EZY I suspect will not want aircraft from other bases being held up at an inefficient and unambitious airport like SOU.
The argument about the bean counters is probably right but as others have said look at SEN and LCY. Southend was nothing more than a place to park unwanted aircraft not long ago. The owner put their hand in their pocket and now EZY have created a sizable base as a result. LCY is owned by a pension fund, who acknowledge it becomes stretched at peak times so are putting their hand in their pocket. Both have short runways but the investment will make them more efficient.
I will agree with you that this thread has turned into a farce lately, historically it was the BOH thread that left me with a case of deja vu. I think this is largely to do with the MD boasting about the announcement of investment in the autumn though.
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River joint,although I can agree with some of your points especially with the lack of announcement with the SOU MD,I think the airport could advance quickly with moderate investment airside,but we all know that this is not on the immediate horizon,therefore I feel the investment blog has gone around to its maximum,and it's time to move on,sadly nothing changes.
Last edited by RW20; 12th Jan 2018 at 17:04.
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Yes I think it is time to move on the subject as I mentioned at the beginning of the month as sadly there is nothing anyone of us can do about as much we continually debate the topic and nothing will change I'm afraid until we hear otherwise
River Joint
Can I just applaud you on your above post, it was meticulously written and well put together and absolutely spot on
River Joint
Can I just applaud you on your above post, it was meticulously written and well put together and absolutely spot on
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The debate on SOU development seems to been going on for some time,however when you read the below link it seems a lot of hot air has been emitting from the airport management for some time!
https://www.built-environment-networ...f-the-shadows/
Time for something to happen I think??
https://www.built-environment-networ...f-the-shadows/
Time for something to happen I think??
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An Aerotropolis! Who thinks up this ridiculous and vacuous business jargon? If the authority means a business park then say so, get on and build it.
Just as a matter of fact a new airport business park is already underway at SEN with the access roads in place and the ground being cleared to provide up to 5000 new jobs adjacent to the airport. The big question is whether the local infrastructure can cope.
Only time will tell.
Just as a matter of fact a new airport business park is already underway at SEN with the access roads in place and the ground being cleared to provide up to 5000 new jobs adjacent to the airport. The big question is whether the local infrastructure can cope.
Only time will tell.
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It is a bit of a mystery why Southampton doesn't do better - I know a few people from Wiltshire and Hampshire who travel to Bristol but they all hate the journey and say they would use Southampton (or Bournemouth) every time if possible.
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I can’t help thinking that it’s unlikely that SOU will develop in the way many of the posters on this forum would like. It will develop, and new destinations will be established, but I have always thought that Southampton is in many ways fundamentally different from many other regional airports.
There are several reasons for this: SOU’s proximity to London, together its excellent transport links and affluent catchment area means that the airport has already developed quite differently to most regional airports. Most of the local catchment area are quite happy to travel to LHR for most long-distance travel, and to LGW for leisure flights.
Southampton’s forte is regular short-haul domestic and near-continent flights, primarily for business users, but also with some short-break weekends, and visiting friends and family etc. SOU is far more comparable to London City than any other regional airport, and indeed it attracts a not inconsiderable amount of business from the SW home-counties and Western end of the Thames Valley, as well as locally.
I really wish BA City Flyer would consider SOU for some of their growing number of off-peak leisure flights as their brand profile is a good fit for the largely affluent local market, and, they have exactly the right equipment!
I also think that BMI regional could potentially have a go at a few more business/city break routes, eg. Frankfurt, Milan and possibly Brussels or Copenhagen.
There will always be leisure-oriented carriers such as Volotea, EasyJet etc having a punt at the discount holiday markets from Southampton, but SOUs unique strength is the fabulous and frequent connections it already has to useful destinations for the local market.
There are several reasons for this: SOU’s proximity to London, together its excellent transport links and affluent catchment area means that the airport has already developed quite differently to most regional airports. Most of the local catchment area are quite happy to travel to LHR for most long-distance travel, and to LGW for leisure flights.
Southampton’s forte is regular short-haul domestic and near-continent flights, primarily for business users, but also with some short-break weekends, and visiting friends and family etc. SOU is far more comparable to London City than any other regional airport, and indeed it attracts a not inconsiderable amount of business from the SW home-counties and Western end of the Thames Valley, as well as locally.
I really wish BA City Flyer would consider SOU for some of their growing number of off-peak leisure flights as their brand profile is a good fit for the largely affluent local market, and, they have exactly the right equipment!
I also think that BMI regional could potentially have a go at a few more business/city break routes, eg. Frankfurt, Milan and possibly Brussels or Copenhagen.
There will always be leisure-oriented carriers such as Volotea, EasyJet etc having a punt at the discount holiday markets from Southampton, but SOUs unique strength is the fabulous and frequent connections it already has to useful destinations for the local market.
Last edited by SotonFlightpath; 14th Jan 2018 at 13:59. Reason: Apostrophes
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Sotonflightpath
Can I just congratulate you on your excellent post and I totally agree with absolutely everything you have written and I share the exact same sentiments regarding Southampton Airport and its potential and the I've always thought of LCY and SOU being very familiar airports in the way you have described.
But that 'small' strip of tarmac from stand 14!
Can I just congratulate you on your excellent post and I totally agree with absolutely everything you have written and I share the exact same sentiments regarding Southampton Airport and its potential and the I've always thought of LCY and SOU being very familiar airports in the way you have described.
But that 'small' strip of tarmac from stand 14!
