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I would agree the programme is too big if it were multiple frequencies and multiple aircraft. But it’s not. If TUI came along and based an aircraft and added 10 destinations you wouldn’t bat an eyelid
Saying Dubrovnik and Tivat are next door to each other again gives me far more confidence in Lolo than posters on here. Yes, they are 25 miles apart as the crow flies. Sadly humans aren’t crows, and it will take humans at least two hours to complete the journey which involves a border crossing to outside of the EU and a ferry trip.
Add to that the city of Dubrovnik and most resorts are at least 30 mins north of the airport, and some of the primary destinations in Montenegro are one hour or more south from Tivat and you really see how ridiculous that statement is.
Saying Dubrovnik and Tivat are next door to each other again gives me far more confidence in Lolo than posters on here. Yes, they are 25 miles apart as the crow flies. Sadly humans aren’t crows, and it will take humans at least two hours to complete the journey which involves a border crossing to outside of the EU and a ferry trip.
Add to that the city of Dubrovnik and most resorts are at least 30 mins north of the airport, and some of the primary destinations in Montenegro are one hour or more south from Tivat and you really see how ridiculous that statement is.
That's just plain rubbish - If TUI started those 10 routes they have their immense marketing power, but even TUI would not take such a risk at SOU in one season!
DBV and Tivat are only 2 hours apart by road - very close in the grand scheme - I have been to both before, and post the War (since 1972)
It is simply not sensible to start from a tiny provincial airport 2 quite specialist routes so close to each other - at the same time/same season.
My credentials,
I have worked in the airline sector for over 40 years, much of it in the holiday charter IT flight industry, so since before you were born, so with some respect I do think I know what I am talking about here,
but I do not say that with any arrogance, but merely share my knowledge of such matters that are close to my life experience.
FYI
I think many posters on here would perhaps like to attend one of the SOU Open Days coming up and simply ask the Q's there - I intend to learn of their ambitions with interest.
BTW
Airport Planner 1
I say old chap - You mentioned on another thread we chatted on, as being crew on a Caledonian 757 MCO-LGW
If your true age is 35 then that makes you about 8yo when you were flying LOL, are you being honest with me LOL
DBV and Tivat are only 2 hours apart by road - very close in the grand scheme - I have been to both before, and post the War (since 1972)
It is simply not sensible to start from a tiny provincial airport 2 quite specialist routes so close to each other - at the same time/same season.
My credentials,
I have worked in the airline sector for over 40 years, much of it in the holiday charter IT flight industry, so since before you were born, so with some respect I do think I know what I am talking about here,
but I do not say that with any arrogance, but merely share my knowledge of such matters that are close to my life experience.
FYI
I think many posters on here would perhaps like to attend one of the SOU Open Days coming up and simply ask the Q's there - I intend to learn of their ambitions with interest.
BTW
Airport Planner 1
I say old chap - You mentioned on another thread we chatted on, as being crew on a Caledonian 757 MCO-LGW
If your true age is 35 then that makes you about 8yo when you were flying LOL, are you being honest with me LOL
Last edited by rog747; 28th Sep 2018 at 10:40.
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I see a good debate has been had over the last week or so. My quick thoughts on the topics discussed as follows (for what they are worth and to contribute to the debate): -
Flylooloo: - A very poorly conceived business which must be hemorrhaging money. Did they get the idea from Come fly with me's joke airline? What is astounding is that the people in senior positions seem to be experienced individuals, who should know better. Anyone know who is bankrolling this outfit? Package holidays are stuffy and the customer base are slowly dying. No offence to people of the north, who I am sure are so deprived of sun that they overcompensate by frying like a pig on some far flung beach, people in the south are more interested in city breaks where there is culture and things to do. Tour operators will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, work from SOU. The death of Palmair at BOH, which is one of the biggest retirement homes in the country, should be enough evidence.
Flymaybe: - They have been in retrenchment mode for the last couple of years, with the only growth being at odd airports almost certainly as the result of big subsidies/incentives (Doncaster to Newquay - need I say any more). It would appear that they are now just sitting on the shelf waiting to be bought by somebody (they seemed very disappointed that the Stobart deal fell through, which is a crying shame for what was once claimed to be the biggest regional airline in Europe). In my opinion, there will be no growth at SOU by flymaybe, regardless of the increased runway length etc (certainly under the leadership of the current lady who is more interested in making their aircraft look like a female sanitary product).
Easyjet: - They fit SOU like a glove. I agree we will probably only see them initially on the established sun routes, but I would argue that bucket and spade destinations are not the main focus of their business, you only have to see one of their adverts to see that they want to attract the young upwardly mobile demographic, who go on numerous shorter holidays throughout the year to interesting cities around Europe. This is exactly the catchment that SOU is very blessed with. Lets not forget that Easy is very much interested in the business market as well. At the moment, this market is all being forced to use LGW, which is an awful airport and I am yet to meet a single person that has anything positive to say about it. For all these reasons, SOU is low hanging fruit for Easy (if, SOU puts their hand in their pocket, which I still doubt).
Ryanair: - Completely wrong for SOU and the demographic. Would be as welcome as Air Zimbabwe.
Polish market: Absolutely huge, SOU was one eighth Polish last time I checked. A lot even travel as far as Luton to fly home currently. Again, low hanging fruit for Easy.
Masterplan: I guess the fact that there are consultations happening this time, raises the expectations slightly, and that there might actually be some momentum. Mr procrastination has also been dislodged from the hot seat. I still maintain that the stands and taxiways being proposed do not go far enough to provide the environment for a sizable Easy base. The four A320 sized stands are going to be very cramped, and logistical pain at push back (heaven forbid two aircraft need to depart within 10 minutes of each other - which of course they will). A full length taxiway can (and was meant to be) installed on the other side of the runway, and connect with the new apron to the north east (it looks like they now want to waste that area on more car parks - see TCAS FAN's posts for a case of deja vu). Whilst the terminal looks like it will be expanded, there is no mention in respect of security/baggage improvements. I am sure these are planned, but they require a significant rethink. They are a massive bottleneck at the moment, and that is even when two Q400s disembark at the same time! Easy need all this stuff to pick the low hanging fruit, maybe it would be easier to just give them their own terminal on the north east land? Just my thoughts as always!
Flylooloo: - A very poorly conceived business which must be hemorrhaging money. Did they get the idea from Come fly with me's joke airline? What is astounding is that the people in senior positions seem to be experienced individuals, who should know better. Anyone know who is bankrolling this outfit? Package holidays are stuffy and the customer base are slowly dying. No offence to people of the north, who I am sure are so deprived of sun that they overcompensate by frying like a pig on some far flung beach, people in the south are more interested in city breaks where there is culture and things to do. Tour operators will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, work from SOU. The death of Palmair at BOH, which is one of the biggest retirement homes in the country, should be enough evidence.
Flymaybe: - They have been in retrenchment mode for the last couple of years, with the only growth being at odd airports almost certainly as the result of big subsidies/incentives (Doncaster to Newquay - need I say any more). It would appear that they are now just sitting on the shelf waiting to be bought by somebody (they seemed very disappointed that the Stobart deal fell through, which is a crying shame for what was once claimed to be the biggest regional airline in Europe). In my opinion, there will be no growth at SOU by flymaybe, regardless of the increased runway length etc (certainly under the leadership of the current lady who is more interested in making their aircraft look like a female sanitary product).
Easyjet: - They fit SOU like a glove. I agree we will probably only see them initially on the established sun routes, but I would argue that bucket and spade destinations are not the main focus of their business, you only have to see one of their adverts to see that they want to attract the young upwardly mobile demographic, who go on numerous shorter holidays throughout the year to interesting cities around Europe. This is exactly the catchment that SOU is very blessed with. Lets not forget that Easy is very much interested in the business market as well. At the moment, this market is all being forced to use LGW, which is an awful airport and I am yet to meet a single person that has anything positive to say about it. For all these reasons, SOU is low hanging fruit for Easy (if, SOU puts their hand in their pocket, which I still doubt).
Ryanair: - Completely wrong for SOU and the demographic. Would be as welcome as Air Zimbabwe.
Polish market: Absolutely huge, SOU was one eighth Polish last time I checked. A lot even travel as far as Luton to fly home currently. Again, low hanging fruit for Easy.
Masterplan: I guess the fact that there are consultations happening this time, raises the expectations slightly, and that there might actually be some momentum. Mr procrastination has also been dislodged from the hot seat. I still maintain that the stands and taxiways being proposed do not go far enough to provide the environment for a sizable Easy base. The four A320 sized stands are going to be very cramped, and logistical pain at push back (heaven forbid two aircraft need to depart within 10 minutes of each other - which of course they will). A full length taxiway can (and was meant to be) installed on the other side of the runway, and connect with the new apron to the north east (it looks like they now want to waste that area on more car parks - see TCAS FAN's posts for a case of deja vu). Whilst the terminal looks like it will be expanded, there is no mention in respect of security/baggage improvements. I am sure these are planned, but they require a significant rethink. They are a massive bottleneck at the moment, and that is even when two Q400s disembark at the same time! Easy need all this stuff to pick the low hanging fruit, maybe it would be easier to just give them their own terminal on the north east land? Just my thoughts as always!
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Get a bit bored of constant digs about Bournemouth population - on this is a Southampton thread and two, the view isn’t accurate in any way - Bournemouth has a higher than average working age population - one of the few places the population is getting younger - has two massively growing universities. Facts.
https://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/counc...eased-2017.pdf
As a local of very much working age I see this day after day.
I won’t even bother to comment on the Northern vs South crap. Jet2 have just moved big time into Stansted - a recognised ‘London’ branded airport - that’s all that needs to be said!
I think buckets and spades suit BOH well and SOU and Easyjet should be a good fit precisely the reasons lost in the boll$cks snipes at BOH / The North - business alternatives -
Logistically probably suit being flown into rather than base if we are being honest about it, 3/4 sized bases are not their preference. But let’s hope one way or another lots more
city breaks from SOU and also Ryanair’s response at BOH - Prague there
is a very interesting decision.
https://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/counc...eased-2017.pdf
As a local of very much working age I see this day after day.
I won’t even bother to comment on the Northern vs South crap. Jet2 have just moved big time into Stansted - a recognised ‘London’ branded airport - that’s all that needs to be said!
I think buckets and spades suit BOH well and SOU and Easyjet should be a good fit precisely the reasons lost in the boll$cks snipes at BOH / The North - business alternatives -
Logistically probably suit being flown into rather than base if we are being honest about it, 3/4 sized bases are not their preference. But let’s hope one way or another lots more
city breaks from SOU and also Ryanair’s response at BOH - Prague there
is a very interesting decision.
Totally agree, plus,
The ''old'' retired Palmair generation now almost 10 years on - have kids, and also grand kids - that are all growing up, and now travel...Both SOU and BOH should seize this.
Mind you if I was in the IT holiday industry locally now, I would still give a horses back leg for the old Palmair mailing list...
The ''old'' retired Palmair generation now almost 10 years on - have kids, and also grand kids - that are all growing up, and now travel...Both SOU and BOH should seize this.
Mind you if I was in the IT holiday industry locally now, I would still give a horses back leg for the old Palmair mailing list...
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Get a bit bored of constant digs about Bournemouth population - on this is a Southampton thread and two, the view isn’t accurate in any way - Bournemouth has a higher than average working age population - one of the few places the population is getting younger - has two massively growing universities. Facts.
https://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/counc...eased-2017.pdf
As a local of very much working age I see this day after day.
I won’t even bother to comment on the Northern vs South crap. Jet2 have just moved big time into Stansted - a recognised ‘London’ branded airport - that’s all that needs to be said!
I think buckets and spades suit BOH well and SOU and Easyjet should be a good fit precisely the reasons lost in the boll$cks snipes at BOH / The North - business alternatives -
Logistically probably suit being flown into rather than base if we are being honest about it, 3/4 sized bases are not their preference. But let’s hope one way or another lots more
city breaks from SOU and also Ryanair’s response at BOH - Prague there
is a very interesting decision.
https://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/counc...eased-2017.pdf
As a local of very much working age I see this day after day.
I won’t even bother to comment on the Northern vs South crap. Jet2 have just moved big time into Stansted - a recognised ‘London’ branded airport - that’s all that needs to be said!
I think buckets and spades suit BOH well and SOU and Easyjet should be a good fit precisely the reasons lost in the boll$cks snipes at BOH / The North - business alternatives -
Logistically probably suit being flown into rather than base if we are being honest about it, 3/4 sized bases are not their preference. But let’s hope one way or another lots more
city breaks from SOU and also Ryanair’s response at BOH - Prague there
is a very interesting decision.
SOU could easily be a 3/4 aircraft base for EasyJet with other aircraft operationing W routes from other from other bases or with aircraft from their EU bases such as Barcelona, Milan MXP, Nice, Palma.
On a side note to Riverjoint........I do hope that you intend to go to one of public consultations organised by the airport to hear first hand about what the actual details are regarding the recently produced Master Plan and then your strange and very surprising and pessimistic views might change.
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Easyjet open a base at Southampton? Ain't going to happen, this unfortunately is just a few people's pipe dream on here. If it does happen in the next 10 years I'll happily come on here and say I was wrong.
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They set up a base at Southend so they aren't that adverse to setting up at the smaller regional airports and they have aircraft that can operate from the airport. If the airport could negotiate the right deal with them i don't see why not Easyjet wouldn't consider basing at Southampton in the next couple of years.
Why not foresee a situation where EZY operate the current "sun routes" (with a few well-chosen/do-able others) and BEE stick to what they do best with UK, Ireland and near-Europe trunk routes and the mostly-seasonal regional France. BEE may not have a suitable (jet) aircraft for the "sun routes" out of SOU after S19 in any case.
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This thread often comes across as the Daily Mail section of PPRUNE! Full of reactionary negative men who always have a better way of doing things! Feel better having said that! The civil aviation industry must be so worried that so much armchair talent is not working with them!
It continually comes across that whatever Southampton Airport do or don't do is wrong. Come on people, Southampton is doing ok as a small regional airport. Works for me.
As for the continual criticism of Flybe by some! I suspect a few disgruntled ex employees or those who can't move on from the days of the loss making BA Express! Without Flybe I suspect Southampton would still be offering the odd flights to Paris, Amsterdam etc.. and not 40 to 50 flights a day in the summer! It may not be perfect but credit where credit is due!
The Flymaybe phrase is also so boring now! I must travel on a different Flybe, as I seem to be on time most of the time and never had a cancellation!
As for the obsession for getting in EasyJet! It could work on a few sun routes but that's about it! I remember the Isle of Man threads wishing for EasyJet too. Yes they got them, but lost the 4 times daily to Gatwick on Flybe. Yes I know about BA to London City. Guess what? They now moan about the EasyJet cancellations and poor timings!
Get a sense of perspective! It's just an airport. Some people definitely need to get out more! Have a good day.
It continually comes across that whatever Southampton Airport do or don't do is wrong. Come on people, Southampton is doing ok as a small regional airport. Works for me.
As for the continual criticism of Flybe by some! I suspect a few disgruntled ex employees or those who can't move on from the days of the loss making BA Express! Without Flybe I suspect Southampton would still be offering the odd flights to Paris, Amsterdam etc.. and not 40 to 50 flights a day in the summer! It may not be perfect but credit where credit is due!
The Flymaybe phrase is also so boring now! I must travel on a different Flybe, as I seem to be on time most of the time and never had a cancellation!
As for the obsession for getting in EasyJet! It could work on a few sun routes but that's about it! I remember the Isle of Man threads wishing for EasyJet too. Yes they got them, but lost the 4 times daily to Gatwick on Flybe. Yes I know about BA to London City. Guess what? They now moan about the EasyJet cancellations and poor timings!
Get a sense of perspective! It's just an airport. Some people definitely need to get out more! Have a good day.
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you my friend might be coming back on here sooner than you think! 😉
EasyJet I feel are the only ones (a LCC) who SOU maybe wooing, and courting - They have the correct aircraft for SOU ops, and the infrastructure.
If SOU can show them some grunt that their operation cannot be beaten, then EZY would have a business case to consider.
Whether EZY then choose to come here is up to them.
FR and JET 2 - no, cannot see it in the near term.
Flybe - ? Well, god forbid they restructure, or get taken over, then SOU without anyone else will be a dead duck.
If SOU can show them some grunt that their operation cannot be beaten, then EZY would have a business case to consider.
Whether EZY then choose to come here is up to them.
FR and JET 2 - no, cannot see it in the near term.
Flybe - ? Well, god forbid they restructure, or get taken over, then SOU without anyone else will be a dead duck.
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Well said vectisman and you're right, the flymaybe nonsense, although very childish and feverishly dull in its own right, is stemmed from a disgruntled ex employee
Stewb, I hope I am wrong, but I can't see it happening. I can see them flying into SOU maybe but as for a base, I don't think so. That's just my opinion of course.
Flybe being there has been/is good for SOU because without them the whole site would've been 1,000 houses a long time ago.
Stewb, I hope I am wrong, but I can't see it happening. I can see them flying into SOU maybe but as for a base, I don't think so. That's just my opinion of course.
Flybe being there has been/is good for SOU because without them the whole site would've been 1,000 houses a long time ago.
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According to CAA O&D data lots of pax (almost 50%) originating from the entire SOU catchment leak to LGW where easyJet has a significant presence. I estimate that around 3-5% of all LGW pax originate in the SOU catchment area of which a considerable amount are regular travellers. From this data alone I would assume easyJet wouldn't want to dilute their LGW operation by setting something up at SOU that could cannibalise their pax
SOU hardly sees any leakage to BRS airport hence why the two bases at LGW and BRS compliment each other. If easyJet sets up a LHR operation as they have stated before when the 3rd runway becomes live then SOU becomes even more irrelevant
For clues as to easyJet's strategy or behaviour just look at the fact that they don't operate from BHX for this very reason (leakage to LTN, BRS etc)
Jet2 however would be a safer step for SOU - in my opinion a much more suitable market segment that SOU is *not currently tapping* and Jet2 have no operation at LGW. Plus it would be very complimentary to SOU's Flybe market. An easyJet operation may not be so complimentary (BRS ops have considerable UK domestic from there EDI, GLA, NCL, BFS, INV, ABZ)
SOU hardly sees any leakage to BRS airport hence why the two bases at LGW and BRS compliment each other. If easyJet sets up a LHR operation as they have stated before when the 3rd runway becomes live then SOU becomes even more irrelevant
For clues as to easyJet's strategy or behaviour just look at the fact that they don't operate from BHX for this very reason (leakage to LTN, BRS etc)
Jet2 however would be a safer step for SOU - in my opinion a much more suitable market segment that SOU is *not currently tapping* and Jet2 have no operation at LGW. Plus it would be very complimentary to SOU's Flybe market. An easyJet operation may not be so complimentary (BRS ops have considerable UK domestic from there EDI, GLA, NCL, BFS, INV, ABZ)
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All this speculation on who might come to SOU is based on the masterplan being implemented asap!
At the moment it's all supposition,and 2019 is looming,so SOU will keep plodding on and on the basis of recent pax numbers is likely to fall below 2million.Until stands are created,runway extension in place coupled with taxiway and infrastructure built.
It's going to be a very similar 2019 to this year.
At the moment it's all supposition,and 2019 is looming,so SOU will keep plodding on and on the basis of recent pax numbers is likely to fall below 2million.Until stands are created,runway extension in place coupled with taxiway and infrastructure built.
It's going to be a very similar 2019 to this year.
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According to CAA O&D data lots of pax (almost 50%) originating from the entire SOU catchment leak to LGW where easyJet has a significant presence. I estimate that around 3-5% of all LGW pax originate in the SOU catchment area of which a considerable amount are regular travellers. From this data alone I would assume easyJet wouldn't want to dilute their LGW operation by setting something up at SOU that could cannibalise their pax
SOU hardly sees any leakage to BRS airport hence why the two bases at LGW and BRS compliment each other. If easyJet sets up a LHR operation as they have stated before when the 3rd runway becomes live then SOU becomes even more irrelevant
For clues as to easyJet's strategy or behaviour just look at the fact that they don't operate from BHX for this very reason (leakage to LTN, BRS etc)
Jet2 however would be a safer step for SOU - in my opinion a much more suitable market segment that SOU is *not currently tapping* and Jet2 have no operation at LGW. Plus it would be very complimentary to SOU's Flybe market. An easyJet operation may not be so complimentary (BRS ops have considerable UK domestic from there EDI, GLA, NCL, BFS, INV, ABZ)
SOU hardly sees any leakage to BRS airport hence why the two bases at LGW and BRS compliment each other. If easyJet sets up a LHR operation as they have stated before when the 3rd runway becomes live then SOU becomes even more irrelevant
For clues as to easyJet's strategy or behaviour just look at the fact that they don't operate from BHX for this very reason (leakage to LTN, BRS etc)
Jet2 however would be a safer step for SOU - in my opinion a much more suitable market segment that SOU is *not currently tapping* and Jet2 have no operation at LGW. Plus it would be very complimentary to SOU's Flybe market. An easyJet operation may not be so complimentary (BRS ops have considerable UK domestic from there EDI, GLA, NCL, BFS, INV, ABZ)
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The thing is you need to get away from the mindset that the low cost carriers revolve around the UK. Both companies mentioned in your message have a larger European presence than that in the UK so why would they necessarily be too concerned about expansion at Southampton? The airport is reasonably untried regarding daily flights using equipment as large as an A319 or a B737 let alone putting 4 of them in there and with LGW not far away why would easy even consider the risk? What SOU management want in regards to the LCCs being based there is irrelevant, what is relevant is whether these airlines want to base themselves there. Time will tell.
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If easyJet feel that they can use SOU as a relief for their LGW operation it might make sense. The concept of reliever hubs has never worked particularly well, but if easyJet's data shows that they have significant passengers from the SOU catchment area and easyJet are keen to add additional flights but cannot due to slot restrictions at LGW, SOU may be the next best thing. LHR R3 is easily a decade away, I wouldn't expect that to have an impact on decision for summer 2019/2020.
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The thing is you need to get away from the mindset that the low cost carriers revolve around the UK. Both companies mentioned in your message have a larger European presence than that in the UK so why would they necessarily be too concerned about expansion at Southampton? The airport is reasonably untried regarding daily flights using equipment as large as an A319 or a B737 let alone putting 4 of them in there and with LGW not far away why would easy even consider the risk? What SOU management want in regards to the LCCs being based there is irrelevant, what is relevant is whether these airlines want to base themselves there. Time will tell.