Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Southampton-2

Old 13th Jan 2020, 12:15
  #1981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
What makes you say that it's the lack of investment etc that has deterred operators?
I would have thought that is self evident, the airport's operational capability has stagnated. Airlines that used to operate small turboprops, ideal for SOU's runway have either gone out of business, rationalised their networks or upgraded to jet equipment that SOU cannot handle with commercial loads.

If lack of investment was not part of the problem why would the airport operator be seeking planning permission to extend the runway and upgrade it's stand situation. Albeit belatedly.
Planespeaking is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 16:18
  #1982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,306
So that's why Air France, KLM and Aer Lingus left? SOU isn't suitable for their Atr's and Embraers which seem to work just fine at other small UK airports?
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 16:49
  #1983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
Posts: 4,486
Judging by the growth seen and the increased frequency, it was a huge surprise when Stobart pulled the Cork (or so to speak).
Buster the Bear is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 17:19
  #1984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
So that's why Air France, KLM and Aer Lingus left? SOU isn't suitable for their Atr's and Embraers which seem to work just fine at other small UK airports?
In that case answer your own implied question. Why have so many carriers deserted SOU?
Planespeaking is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 17:49
  #1985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,306
Presumably the same as the reason most routes get dropped - not enough money in it. Just challenging the orthodoxy on this thread that this is due to airfield restrictions - "build it and they will come"!. Maybe there isn't the demand?
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2020, 18:25
  #1986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Presumably the same as the reason most routes get dropped - not enough money in it. Just challenging the orthodoxy on this thread that this is due to airfield restrictions - "build it and they will come"!. Maybe there isn't the demand?
"Maybe there isn't the demand" Now I think we can agree. 👍
Planespeaking is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2020, 17:12
  #1987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the doghouse (usually)
Posts: 228
SOU-MME 2 x daily from the 9th March with Eastern.
The Nutts Mutts is online now  
Old 25th Jan 2020, 06:33
  #1988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 127
Flybe MME and still in £Trubble

Originally Posted by The Nutts Mutts View Post
SOU-MME 2 x daily from the 9th March with Eastern.
Thanks - Tis is a Flybe franchise operation - J41 operation not nice.
Ludicrous fares structure start from £90 o/w to yes, £800!!
You just take one look & walk away......

Flybe now asking the Govt for a £100m loan, on top of the deferred £106m APD tax bill....
Times quotes - The depth of the financial crisis at the domestic carrier has been revealed, with Flybe’s chief executive reportedly telling staff that he would be going to the government for a loan to see the company through the winter. Ouch.

Feel sorry for the staff -- hope they have other job and/or financial parachutes at the ready to escape?

Last edited by rog747; 25th Jan 2020 at 08:53.
rog747 is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2020, 09:43
  #1989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Southampton
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by rog747 View Post

Flybe now asking the Govt for a £100m loan, on top of the deferred £106m APD tax
You couldn't write this stuff, what's going to happen in 6 months time when that loan is burned (if it were to happen) they going to start asking for another 100m!!!!!
Dropoffcharge is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2020, 20:18
  #1990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 331
If Flybe go under,so does Southampton!,What a decline for the airport,it could and should have been so different!
RW20 is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2020, 21:50
  #1991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lower Upham
Posts: 30
The demise of Flybe would be an enormous blow to SOU, but I think it would recover relatively quickly. Many of the routes are very well used, with one or two being amongst Flybe’s most profitable. The problem Flybe has is debt, and when any business of any type gets into this situation, it is always trying to play ‘catch-up’ with its finances, and this can be a loosing battle. I agree that the Sun routes, whilst busy and well used, probably had relatively low yields, with little or no operating profit when set against the often reported high lease costs of the EMB 190s. Many of the leisure routes to France were probably very marginal too.

There has however been a steady and continuing need for the core UK/Ireland/Channel Island routes, together with destinations such as Amsterdam and Paris.

In in the event of a Flybe collapse, I can easily see other operators taking over some these routes, albeit at a more realistic slightly reduced frequency on some of them, but still timed to appeal to business users who often require an out and back in a day schedule.

I can easily see Aer Lingus Regional stepping in to offer perhaps twice daily to Dublin and daily to Belfast. Loganair would be prime contenders to operate routes to and from Glasgow/Edinburgh and perhaps reintroduce Aberdeen. Eastern could perhaps step in with perhaps Newcastle. Not sure about MAN, but as it’s one of the busiest routes from SOU, I’m pretty sure an operator would step in and be able to turn a profit on this popular route.

I do wonder about the return of the ‘sun routes’. I can’t see enough business to allow an operator such as EasyJet or Jet2 to open a base, and operating flights on W patterns from other bases can be quite complicated. The restriction on opening hours is always going to be a disadvantage in attracting a low cost carrier, even if the runway extension gets the go ahead.

The best solution I feel for these routes would be to try and attract BA Cityflyer to operate a limited range of leisure routes as they have done from a few other airports. Ferrying aircraft in from LCY at the weekend is but a short hop, and a very affluent market is available in the Hampshire/West Berks/South Wilts area. It would also provide a different product proposition (more upmarket) compared to Bournemouth thus it would avoid a ‘head to head’ battle with the low cost operators at Bournemouth - similar destinations but a different product.

I personally think SOU will overcome the difficult challenges that would be posed by losing Flybe, but would bounce back over a period of 18 months or so with passenger numbers settling at a more stable but still profitable 1.5M per annum.
SotonFlightpath is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2020, 03:46
  #1992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,093
Why would BA Cityflyer want to fly charters from SOU to the Mediterranean beaches when this a) potentially competes against their own route from Heathrow, b) they have a profitable alternate use at Stansted that involves going to the Med and c) there is talk that LCY might possibly be available for use during its current weekend curfew ?

Not saying it can't happen, but I imagine the charter rate for BA Cityflyer at the weekend would be rather high

Summer charters at SOU in a post-Flybe world could still happen but I think it might need an airline other than BA Cityflyer. Perhaps Air Baltic might be persuaded ?
davidjohnson6 is online now  
Old 26th Jan 2020, 10:48
  #1993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Valencia
Posts: 218
SotonFlightpath I think you are a little unfair with your comment about BOH. Flying from there to ALC last year, the majority of the passengers were certainly 'affluent' and many were using the service to fly to their properties on the Costa Blanca. For such a short hop, I can't see an alternative such as BA Cityflyer from Southampton being any more attractive to them. I suspect that many look for a convenient year-round service such as those offered from BOH so they can make multiple visits, rather than a short season programme.
FFHKG is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2020, 11:39
  #1994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
Why would BA Cityflyer want to fly charters from SOU to the Mediterranean beaches when this a) potentially competes against their own route from Heathrow, b) they have a profitable alternate use at Stansted that involves going to the Med and c) there is talk that LCY might possibly be available for use during its current weekend curfew ?

Not saying it can't happen, but I imagine the charter rate for BA Cityflyer at the weekend would be rather high

Summer charters at SOU in a post-Flybe world could still happen but I think it might need an airline other than BA Cityflyer. Perhaps Air Baltic might be persuaded ?
BACF have for many years now, flown a huge series of summer and ski leisure charter flights mainly from regional and Northern airports, plus IOM GLA EDI and ABZ
The Scottish series have been mainly chartered by Barrhead Travel for Package holiday flights. - Obviously a lucrative business for BACF to get plenty of use of their otherwise quiet EMB fleet at weekends. Likewise BA mainline have also operated a big summer charter program from LHR and some too from LGW mainly to Greece and its islands plus Turkey Corsica and Sardinia
rog747 is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2020, 12:08
  #1995 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 73
Local MPís and Aviation Minister visited the airport yesterday to back growth plans and connectivity. Clearly the government are on side and if it went to appeal, you would expect The Planning Inspectorate to approve. Itís not if but when!
SKOJB is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2020, 14:28
  #1996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,306
BACF have for many years now, flown a huge series of summer and ski leisure charter flights mainly from regional and Northern airports, plus IOM GLA EDI and ABZ
And there is nothing to stop them doing the same now from SOU - they face stronger competiton than BE at most of these other points...
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 08:26
  #1997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
And there is nothing to stop them doing the same now from SOU - they face stronger competiton than BE at most of these other points...
BACF tried this from BHX and BRS in 2017 and 2018 but these operations stopped due to the huge crewing costs incurred (accommodation, allowances)) and impact on their main weekday ops with crew going out of hours due to delayed flights at weekends. It is a real headache from a crewing perspective to operate 'out of base flight programmes and far more operationally complicated than many realise. Not saying they wont consider doing this from SOU but the figures would really have to add up for them to do so on anything more than a limited summer season basis. Positioning aircraft and crew here, there and everywhere is not cheap!
GayFriendly is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 12:09
  #1998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 331
There must be increasing concern with Southampton airport owners and management that there limited expansion plans will ever materialise.Southampton city council have completely rejected it,and I'm sure Eastleigh will follow along the same lines. An appeal will take a long time to complete,and in the meantime the airports main and virtually only airline Flybe are tottering on the brink of collapsing. Very troubled times ahead for The airport.
RW20 is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 13:43
  #1999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,306
Cllr John Savage, chair of the panel, said the council has to protect the future of the people living in the city. After the meeting he added: "We do recognised that having an airport with promised economic growth come from it sounds marvellous but the economic argument wasn't sufficiently well argued. Lots of issues weren't dealt with well enough to be able to see the evidence stacked up in order to support the application at all. I am a councillor for this city and the health and wellbeing of people in this city is my responsibility and I cannot allow a plan to go forward that is going to damage the health of people in the city."

The final decision will be made by Eastleigh Borough Council.

Cllr Savage said he thinks it will be "very difficult" for the borough council not to take into account the recommendation.
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/181...pansion-plans/
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 29th Jan 2020, 13:51
  #2000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southampton
Posts: 331
The echo article says it all,the planning application is 5 years to late,environmental concerns will cloud any reasoning from the airport management,which frankly hasn't put there case environmentally well at all.
RW20 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.