Southend-2
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And the population of the Cuidad Real area compared to the Barcelona Region? I don't know, but I also know that Cuidad Real is the first stop on the high speed rail link out of Madrid heading toward Seville which, whenever I travel to Cordoba on business, seems to attract large numbers of potential travellers to Madrid airport.
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The point is it’s not radius but catchment, market and travel time. Most UK airports don’t truly have a 360 catchment. Many large European airports don’t have a 360 catchment either...half of Amsterdam’s for example is in the sea. Milan and Zurich theoretically have 360, but it’s severed by mountains.
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The point is it’s not radius but catchment, market and travel time. Most UK airports don’t truly have a 360 catchment. Many large European airports don’t have a 360 catchment either...half of Amsterdam’s for example is in the sea. Milan and Zurich theoretically have 360, but it’s severed by mountains.
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Now that my home airport has been mentioned:
75,000 inhabitants in Ciudad Real proper. Catchment area: 216,000 (30 min), 394,000 (60 min, 3,951,000 if rail station is built), 1,629,000 (120 min, 5,178,000 if rail station is built). Travel time between CQM and Madrid-Atocha would be similar to that between SEN and London-Liverpool Street.
1,260,000 in Barcelona proper. Catchment area: 4,200,000 (30 min), 6,000,000 (60 min), 7,300,000 (120 min).
183,000 in Southend-on-Sea. Catchment area: 8,200,000 according to marketing team.
One of the reasons I moved to Southend Airport for work was that it reminded me in some way of my local airport. SEN is for me an example of how good planning and a convenient train station can attract new airlines and passengers. Under new management, CQM is also improving but with a totally different business model (aircraft parking and, in a few months time, maintenance and scrapping). Until a railway station is built in the mentioned high-speed line, Ciudad Real cannot realistically attract any passenger service except for regional/low-cost traffic (to Barcelona and Balearics/Canaries in Spain and to Romania). The managing team knows this and they want to consolidate as a maintenance hub before trying any other options. The previous team (up to 2012) also knew it, but when Madrid "took" all the low-cost companies that were meant to operate in Ciudad Real (Ryanair, Wizz, Blue Air, bmibaby,...), they rushed everything with the results we all know.
Back on topic, it's difficult forecast what the future will bring to Southend, but in my personal opinion it is a great airport to fly from or work at, and the airport will maybe struggle for a couple of years, but there will always be new opportunities that, if management takes advantage of them, will get everything back on track.
75,000 inhabitants in Ciudad Real proper. Catchment area: 216,000 (30 min), 394,000 (60 min, 3,951,000 if rail station is built), 1,629,000 (120 min, 5,178,000 if rail station is built). Travel time between CQM and Madrid-Atocha would be similar to that between SEN and London-Liverpool Street.
1,260,000 in Barcelona proper. Catchment area: 4,200,000 (30 min), 6,000,000 (60 min), 7,300,000 (120 min).
183,000 in Southend-on-Sea. Catchment area: 8,200,000 according to marketing team.
One of the reasons I moved to Southend Airport for work was that it reminded me in some way of my local airport. SEN is for me an example of how good planning and a convenient train station can attract new airlines and passengers. Under new management, CQM is also improving but with a totally different business model (aircraft parking and, in a few months time, maintenance and scrapping). Until a railway station is built in the mentioned high-speed line, Ciudad Real cannot realistically attract any passenger service except for regional/low-cost traffic (to Barcelona and Balearics/Canaries in Spain and to Romania). The managing team knows this and they want to consolidate as a maintenance hub before trying any other options. The previous team (up to 2012) also knew it, but when Madrid "took" all the low-cost companies that were meant to operate in Ciudad Real (Ryanair, Wizz, Blue Air, bmibaby,...), they rushed everything with the results we all know.
Back on topic, it's difficult forecast what the future will bring to Southend, but in my personal opinion it is a great airport to fly from or work at, and the airport will maybe struggle for a couple of years, but there will always be new opportunities that, if management takes advantage of them, will get everything back on track.
Join Date: Oct 2006
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A few insights into Cuidad Real the capital of Castille-La Mancha It is 200 kilometres (128 miles) south of Madrid and when Ryanair flew there for a few months they called it Madrid South! Visited the airport a few years ago when travelling back to the UK and stopping overnight in Toledo and took the opportunity to have a quick look. Lovely looking airport but that is about it. Cuidad Real has a population of about 80,000 and no other large towns nearby and has been mentioned is on the high speed line to Seville.No comparison to Barcelona sorry AP1.
Spain is a large and mostly rural country and it takes between 10-12 hours to drive north-south on excellent quiet (often very quiet) motorways so it is only the big conurbations and holiday areas on the Costas where the passengers are.
Spain is a large and mostly rural country and it takes between 10-12 hours to drive north-south on excellent quiet (often very quiet) motorways so it is only the big conurbations and holiday areas on the Costas where the passengers are.
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I’m glad people have delved deep into my deliberately provocative examples of Ciudad Real and Amsterdam because it goes to show once and for all that using circular radius and the sea as barometers of potential is mostly useless.
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1. SPL is the only airport serving AMS and the home base and hub of an airline group operating a combined fleet of some 208 aircraft whereas LON is served by some six and two half airports and SEN neither a home base nor hub of an airline.
2. ZRH is the only airport serving ZRH and the home base and hub of an airline operating a fleet of some 90 aircraft and then some, ditto as above.
3. MXP is one of two and one half airports serving MIL but to the north of MXP are the stunningly beautiful Italian lakes, the Alps and the Swiss border, these are not wasted potential catchment but they are catchment, people travel to MXP specifically for lakes & mountains holidays and during the winter skiing holidays whilst, by comparison, Southend-on-Sea might have the longest pier but not it's exactly an international tourist holiday attraction nor destination.
Last edited by OC37; 18th Sep 2020 at 05:00.
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SEN is for me an example of how good planning and a convenient train station can attract new airlines and passengers.
I note Eastern Airways new Teeside service to Heathrow. That would not have happened 6 months ago and could have been a natural route for Southend when other airports could not offer appropriate slots.
Last edited by LTNman; 18th Sep 2020 at 05:10.
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For many reasons despite the Stobart investment, a good passenger experience and a convenient station the airport is going to struggle big time when there is capacity at London’s other airports. It is the furthest away from Central London, has the longest travel time and doesn’t have a direct link to the UK motorway network. Southend will flourish again but only when the other airports run out of slots and when airlines feel they have a need for SEN due to a lack of alternatives.
Last edited by OC37; 18th Sep 2020 at 06:44.
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I am not knocking the airport as it could teach all the big boys a few lessons about the passenger experience but it is a struggle to work out what is holding Southend back apart from its location.
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Well anyone coming from the north-east and east anglia etc. would be driving an hour or so past STN just to reach SEN, anyone coming thru/across the Dartford then SEN & STN are a similar distance but then they have LGW already in their neck of the woods, a railway line running alongside SEN airfield with a station a stone's throw from the terminal is a gem even if the train transit times are not, but take a look on GE at Radlett airfield, that has two railway lines alongside the former airfield, one either side, and they shut that airfield down due lack of interest!
For many reasons despite the Stobart investment, a good passenger experience and a convenient station the airport is going to struggle big time when there is capacity at London’s other airports. It is the furthest away from Central London (but only by a mile compared with Stansted) has the longest travel time and doesn’t have a direct link to the UK motorway network. Southend will flourish again but only when the other airports run out of slots and when airlines feel they have a need for SEN due to a lack of alternatives.
It was certainly the case pre-COVID that SEN benefitted from the paucity of LON slots so they will suffer from that not being the case in the next few years. Of course SEN will not be entirely constrained by that because it's natural catchment for flights to the Med and other European beach destinations is large enough that it should remain theoretically attractive to the likes of RYR and EZY. It's more a case for both those carriers as to whether they would rather concentrate the reduced number of travellers (which may continue for some time) onto flights from their respective hubs of STN and LTN. On the other hand they may think that offering a more local departure point will help in their maximising a smaller overall market. Predicting what is likely to happen is simply impossible and will remain so for many months by the look of it.
What can be said with some certainty is that SEN is unlikely to again see 2 mppa for a couple of years and the much touted 5 mppa can only remain a distant aspiration.
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Reality rules OK with Expressflight...Well to an extent.
The only constant through the duration perhaps is going to be Stobart & the question of their own durability.
Was their ever the conclusion even Pre virus what SEN actually is...a local or London Airport?
Other very important factors that AirportPlanner1 requires to interrogate along side radii in comparative assertions & assumptions may well appear to be LOGIC & nearly as tellingly HISTORY notwithstanding business too.
The only constant through the duration perhaps is going to be Stobart & the question of their own durability.
Was their ever the conclusion even Pre virus what SEN actually is...a local or London Airport?
Other very important factors that AirportPlanner1 requires to interrogate along side radii in comparative assertions & assumptions may well appear to be LOGIC & nearly as tellingly HISTORY notwithstanding business too.
Was their ever the conclusion even Pre virus what SEN actually is...a local or London Airport?
One thing that history does show us is that when times are hard, airlines consolidate and it's the smaller/weaker bases that go.
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Does it matter?...Well yes with all due respect it possibly does...Not in the world order of things perhaps but certainly for the future of SEN.
We have observed so many & varying claims from day one ranging from SEN being an important addition to the London market thru now when the saving roll of the dice is imagined as perhaps a very local market.
Catchment is probably an important word here in the SE too I would have thought with up to 6 London Airports...The word has importance & meaning to both airline & airport marketers & last used quite recently probably by the SEN CEO himself in the media,
True re consolidation & lessons from history learnt & to be learnt.
We have observed so many & varying claims from day one ranging from SEN being an important addition to the London market thru now when the saving roll of the dice is imagined as perhaps a very local market.
Catchment is probably an important word here in the SE too I would have thought with up to 6 London Airports...The word has importance & meaning to both airline & airport marketers & last used quite recently probably by the SEN CEO himself in the media,
True re consolidation & lessons from history learnt & to be learnt.
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There are around 1.5 million people living in Essex and (my guesstimate) another 2.5 million in the north-east quadrant of Greater London. All these people should be able to access SEN within an hour or so. But there’s a problem. They can also reach STN or LGW in that time. Or even LTN / LHR depending on what side of the catchment area they reside.
The real problem is SEN needs to be able to attract people; to offer them a choice over other airports. Having this really nice airport is great but with 3 or 4 departures a day only a handful of people will find it works for them. It’s going to take something really special to start growing again and finding the momentum that took years to build up.
The real problem is SEN needs to be able to attract people; to offer them a choice over other airports. Having this really nice airport is great but with 3 or 4 departures a day only a handful of people will find it works for them. It’s going to take something really special to start growing again and finding the momentum that took years to build up.
SEN will start growing again with major airlines using A320/B737 aircraft in a significant way in about 2 years time, once Stansted during the early morning and late evening peaks is running at something close to capacity
Until then it has to focus on niche areas. For commercial scheduled pax flights that means the likes of FlyOne / Wideroe or (and I know there was endless debate about this a few years ago), thin routes which cannot sustain a 180+ seat aircraft, operated at low frequencies to airports not currently served from London. Essentially all the routes that Ryanair rejects because the potential pax numbers are too small or the route is difficult for some reason
Perhaps a route to Strasbourg with Volotea might be something to pursue for summer 2022 ? Alternatively, would Binter Canarias consider a route with an E195 to Tenerife North airport ?
Until then it has to focus on niche areas. For commercial scheduled pax flights that means the likes of FlyOne / Wideroe or (and I know there was endless debate about this a few years ago), thin routes which cannot sustain a 180+ seat aircraft, operated at low frequencies to airports not currently served from London. Essentially all the routes that Ryanair rejects because the potential pax numbers are too small or the route is difficult for some reason
Perhaps a route to Strasbourg with Volotea might be something to pursue for summer 2022 ? Alternatively, would Binter Canarias consider a route with an E195 to Tenerife North airport ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 18th Sep 2020 at 14:51.
Perhaps a route to Strasbourg with Volotea might be something to pursue for summer 2022 ? Alternatively, would Binter Canarias consider a route with an E195 to Tenerife North airport ?
Is SEN the short-haul equivalent of the Gatwick long haul 'waiting room'? Where you have to go where you can't get where you really want to go?
I don't believe either Strasbourg or Tenerife North can (even in normal times) support a 180-seat aircraft to London. Ryanair has tried both routes from London, and Iberia tried TFN-Heathrow
Gatwick's charges are heavily weighted to favour 150+ seat aircraft at the expense of airlines flying 80-seat aicraft - hence why Flybe left Gatwick. I'm thinking specifically of a Volotea B717 or a Binter E195
Gatwick's charges are heavily weighted to favour 150+ seat aircraft at the expense of airlines flying 80-seat aicraft - hence why Flybe left Gatwick. I'm thinking specifically of a Volotea B717 or a Binter E195