Southend-2
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No one here should have to explain/defend the SEN position that should be the responsibility of the airport operator.That they have not is the reason for virtually all the comment & continued comment here.
It does not perhaps stop people booking but in future it might hamper the numbers & volume of flights on offer now the affair is out in the open & politicians councils & lobbyists may feel able to hijack the agenda.
It does not perhaps stop people booking but in future it might hamper the numbers & volume of flights on offer now the affair is out in the open & politicians councils & lobbyists may feel able to hijack the agenda.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They could do what Luton did for its engine run up bay. Just install a blast fence with a noise deflecting mound behind it so the hill doesn't get blown away. Its called mitigation and so far Stobart has attempted nothing apart from telling locals at quarterly meetings why they are doing nothing.
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Daws Heath Essex
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone believe there are people out there, about to book their next flight to the Costas, who will be inclined to rule out Southend Airport because of the recent publicity?
It's all the other matters usually debated here, such as queues through security, transport links, destinations and times will be the factors that influence choice.
It's all the other matters usually debated here, such as queues through security, transport links, destinations and times will be the factors that influence choice.
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny thing is, there are people out there who would jump at the opportunity to buy that house for the very reason the present occupants want out. It's a funny aul world really.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mad about planes but also enjoy the piece and quiet of my garden, a week or two of that would drive me insane, each to their own I guess!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As regards the alleged noise on Charlie - honestly, I couldn't care less. I use SEN cause it's convenient and in the main it just works fairly well. Passengers tend not to get emotionally attached to these things. It's all about airfare competitiveness and speed of transitioning through the airport and push back from stand on time.
stewyb wrote
as for ltnmans picture. What is that protecting. Is there a nursery school behind the bank.. or maybe a badger and newt sanctuary
Oh and actually there are badgers and newts within 300m of the runup bay but that is another story.
I usually have a lot of respect for LTNman's posts but there seems a sense of double standards creeping in over the last few days. Looking through his posts for March 2018, when it became clear that LTN would be very restricted in its overnight movements for S2018, there was no sense of it being good news for residents. Indeed he focused on LTN becoming "an 18 hour airport for bizjets" and his tone was that this was a bad thing: "ironic in the year the airport gets a capacity boost it finds itself having to turn business away". Someone at that time posted "according to the BBC, noise complaints are up 800% at LTN" to which his response was "most of the complaints come from a handful of people" - not much sympathy shown there.
As far as his use of the engine run bay blast walls/banking at LTN as a fair comparison with an aircraft at SEN idling on a taxiway waiting for line-up is concerned, well the noise levels being mitigated are hardly of the same magnitude.
As far as his use of the engine run bay blast walls/banking at LTN as a fair comparison with an aircraft at SEN idling on a taxiway waiting for line-up is concerned, well the noise levels being mitigated are hardly of the same magnitude.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If that is how I came across then that is my error. I for one will be objecting to the planning application extending the noise footprint for Luton which would allow 24/7 bis jet movements to return next summer. I also object to the planned doubling of aircraft movements by expanding the airport so there is no double standards. Most airports including Luton and Southend hold noise meetings but do very little apart from talk. Power to the people, I am pro Luton but sometimes a line has to be drawn in the sand when they start taking the p!ss.
Last edited by LTNman; 26th Apr 2019 at 07:44.
Plenty of comments about the residents should know that airports are noisy - conversally, Stobart knew the residents were there and that their plans were going to increase noise levels.
What did they do about it?
That's no reason for doing nothing - what mitigation does a chainlink fence provide?
What did they do about it?
As far as his use of the engine run bay blast walls/banking at LTN as a fair comparison with an aircraft at SEN idling on a taxiway waiting for line-up is concerned, well the noise levels being mitigated are hardly of the same magnitude.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All have now made their opinions quite clear & these will not change.However all the words here will not eliminate the basic problem that clearly exists on the ground at SEN & generally around other airports.
It is quite evident that some airport operators whilst going for maximum growth have tougher regimes in place to mitigate impacts on populations than others.
The regimes imposed are sometimes national for instance the DFT strictly control noise generation at the three LON majors of LHR/LGW & STN.
Whether due to history (the growth of Council controlled airports not anticipated back in the day) or other factors is unclear.What is clear is that Council controlled dromes are it appears "pushing it" & perhaps posters should be more careful what they wish for when only hoping their Airbus to the sun will be filled rather than contemplate consequences for your neighbours.
Some airports have arrived at their own mitigation decisions too by acknowledging that they have to be good neighbours to achieve the growth & have put many such measures into place voluntarily.
Now even more so with all manner of lobbyists growing stronger by the day (the chief spokesperson for the Extinction Rebellion with airtime on BBC wants to end flying in five years time! extreme I realize) but even so warnings are there.
Frankly SEN it seems has to start showing some empathy & mindfulness towards local populations & engage certainly with the chequebook.
Quick note for Expressflight...I admire your debating posts but perhaps trying too hard now.To suggest an Airbus/Boeing even at "idle" is of no magnitude reflects no credit on the poster.
Have you actually listened to the video that has played around the world.
It is quite evident that some airport operators whilst going for maximum growth have tougher regimes in place to mitigate impacts on populations than others.
The regimes imposed are sometimes national for instance the DFT strictly control noise generation at the three LON majors of LHR/LGW & STN.
Whether due to history (the growth of Council controlled airports not anticipated back in the day) or other factors is unclear.What is clear is that Council controlled dromes are it appears "pushing it" & perhaps posters should be more careful what they wish for when only hoping their Airbus to the sun will be filled rather than contemplate consequences for your neighbours.
Some airports have arrived at their own mitigation decisions too by acknowledging that they have to be good neighbours to achieve the growth & have put many such measures into place voluntarily.
Now even more so with all manner of lobbyists growing stronger by the day (the chief spokesperson for the Extinction Rebellion with airtime on BBC wants to end flying in five years time! extreme I realize) but even so warnings are there.
Frankly SEN it seems has to start showing some empathy & mindfulness towards local populations & engage certainly with the chequebook.
Quick note for Expressflight...I admire your debating posts but perhaps trying too hard now.To suggest an Airbus/Boeing even at "idle" is of no magnitude reflects no credit on the poster.
Have you actually listened to the video that has played around the world.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In the sticks
Posts: 9,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well SWBKCB and Southside bobby comments has hit the nail on the head. This has nothing to do with being being pro or anti airport but Stobart has to recognise that its activities affect peoples lives particularly as its airport is just metres away from housing. It is clear that Stobart has invested millions but seems to have spend nothing on noise mitigation. What has got me going is the comments that they operate within permitted levels. So that makes it alright then so they can just walk away and do nothing.
Plenty of comments about the residents should know that airports are noisy - conversally, Stobart knew the residents were there and that their plans were going to increase noise levels. What did they do about it?
That's no reason for doing nothing - what mitigation does a chainlink fence provide?
That's no reason for doing nothing - what mitigation does a chainlink fence provide?
There has been a lot of criticism here on the lines of 'why didn't SEN see this problem coming'. I think the answer is threefold:
1) Taxiway Charlie had been largely out of use from perhaps 2015 to 2017 (I don't know the exact time frame) but by November 2017 had been rebuilt (but not re-aligned) and was in use by all traffic. Last year this comprised jet traffic of 4 x A319/320 and 3 x E195 so the 'annoyance' level rose considerably.
2) Runway 05 became, unusually, the prevailing departure runway during late Winter/early Spring this year due to the weather pattern, so the noise became more noticeable.
3) At the start of April the three RYR B738s arrived and no doubt their engine note on the taxiway is slightly different (maybe louder I don't know), further increasing the noise nuisance levels.
Maybe someone at SEN should have realised the effect of 2) and explained it to the residents and they certainly should have carried out some noise monitoring to see if the RYR presence at SEN made a noticeable difference to noise levels and, perhaps more importantly, noise level perception.
I do have personal experience of measuring aircraft noise levels and prior to the introduction of the A319 at SEN I travelled to Jersey and made recordings on the beach to replicate the height above Bridgwater Drive (a critical noise location in Southend) for aircraft landing on 06 at SEN. These recordings were offered to the main noise lobbying body at SEN but they declined the offer!
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you use this link to the airport's website you will find minutes available from quarterly meetings between the airport and local politicians regarding a range of community matters including noise.
I think it shows that the airport does engage, but as has been reported in the press, there is a view from the management that people should be content provided it is explained to them that airport operates within permitted limits.
https://southendairport.com/corporat...ity/noise#faqs
Go to Community Reporting for the minutes.
I think it shows that the airport does engage, but as has been reported in the press, there is a view from the management that people should be content provided it is explained to them that airport operates within permitted limits.
https://southendairport.com/corporat...ity/noise#faqs
Go to Community Reporting for the minutes.
there is a view from the management that people should be content provided it is explained to them that airport operates within permitted limits.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To celebrate the NQY service Southend Airport is installing a "giant surf simulator" on the lawn in front of the Terminal for a few hours on the day itself 2.5.19.
Cornish wine tasting with cream teas to be handed out within the Terminal to passengers & visitors on the day.
Cornish wine tasting with cream teas to be handed out within the Terminal to passengers & visitors on the day.
To celebrate the NQY service Southend Airport is installing a "giant surf simulator" on the lawn in front of the Terminal for a few hours on the day itself 2.5.19.
My intention was to suggest that nothing that drastic was required for a taxiway. Perhaps I should have said then, rather than just in a later post, that a noise attenuation wall could be suggested "as the noise levels being mitigated are hardly of the same magnitude (as run up bay levels)" - as I'm sure you would agree is the reality. I'm sorry if it came across as belittling the noise level of a taxiing aircraft - that was not my intention.
All I would say about the volume of the video is that if you play back an audio track at a level higher than that at which it was recorded, it will sound louder than was experienced in reality. Who knows if the recorded level was even known by the media.
Last edited by Expressflight; 26th Apr 2019 at 14:52.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: bishops stortford herts
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But again here some head burying in the sand I fear with the added comfort of differing degrees of slicing the real problem.
The Independent`s strap today is "The Southend Airport Runway that`s fringed by gardens"
The Travel correspondent there Simon Calder (yes I know everybody`s favourite) has even so raised interesting points by stating that "Janet Marchant`s misery is a consequence of aviation paralysis" (in this country) basically with demand exceeding suitably planned development to the detriment of all.
He writes...it may be that the travelling public in London & the Southeast collectively decides to fly less or the Government increases taxes to dampen demand for aviation.
It is written already as a consequence of the SEN story beamed around the world & written actually by a travel writer whose job is err travel !.
Have mentioned previously this "story" could actually benefit no one in the industry if it is hijacked by others who are gaining influence with age groups & outlooks different to ours.
Stobart have decided to enter the industry but should be a guardian for it too & a mindful neighbour.
There is a little Swedish girl travelling around Europe meeting with large numbers of leaders & decision makers by train! eschewing air travel with an audience of many millions of younger people.
The Independent`s strap today is "The Southend Airport Runway that`s fringed by gardens"
The Travel correspondent there Simon Calder (yes I know everybody`s favourite) has even so raised interesting points by stating that "Janet Marchant`s misery is a consequence of aviation paralysis" (in this country) basically with demand exceeding suitably planned development to the detriment of all.
He writes...it may be that the travelling public in London & the Southeast collectively decides to fly less or the Government increases taxes to dampen demand for aviation.
It is written already as a consequence of the SEN story beamed around the world & written actually by a travel writer whose job is err travel !.
Have mentioned previously this "story" could actually benefit no one in the industry if it is hijacked by others who are gaining influence with age groups & outlooks different to ours.
Stobart have decided to enter the industry but should be a guardian for it too & a mindful neighbour.
There is a little Swedish girl travelling around Europe meeting with large numbers of leaders & decision makers by train! eschewing air travel with an audience of many millions of younger people.