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Southend-2

Old 21st Sep 2018, 10:34
  #2021 (permalink)  
 
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virginblue

As far as I know the financial risk for the Aer Lingus Regional route network is largely with Stobart Air. There may be exceptions where it makes economic sense for EI to ask EIR (STK) to take on an existing route but others here perhaps have the definitive answer.

What I would say is that the original plan, in 2014, was for the SEN routes to CFR, RNS, GRQ etc. to be operated under the AER brand but for some reason this did not happen and the deal was then done between STK and BE which currently expires at the end of May 2019. Maybe whatever precluded the EIR deal going ahead four years ago does not now apply and we could see EIR branding on the SEN routes. Definitely the uncertainty over the future of these routes which currently exists needs to be resolved as quickly as possible.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 11:23
  #2022 (permalink)  
 
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How has Malta been doing with KM?

Is it seasonal and are the stops in CAG and Sicily also popular for pax?
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 13:08
  #2023 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Expressflight View Post
virginblue

As far as I know the financial risk for the Aer Lingus Regional route network is largely with Stobart Air. There may be exceptions where it makes economic sense for EI to ask EIR (STK) to take on an existing route but others here perhaps have the definitive answer.

What I would say is that the original plan, in 2014, was for the SEN routes to CFR, RNS, GRQ etc. to be operated under the AER brand but for some reason this did not happen and the deal was then done between STK and BE which currently expires at the end of May 2019. Maybe whatever precluded the EIR deal going ahead four years ago does not now apply and we could see EIR branding on the SEN routes. Definitely the uncertainty over the future of these routes which currently exists needs to be resolved as quickly as possible.
Interesting, thanks. So if Stobart uses the brand and assumes the commercial risk it is more or less a franchise operation just like [email protected] Not sure why they went for the BE brand at SEN in the first place. Maybe EI was unwilling to franchise its brand for an UK-based operation - or it was more expensive than BE. With the exception of the domestic destinations where Flybe has a sizeable presence, there was relatively little to gain from the BE brand as most of Stobart's destinations do not have Flybe services.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 14:16
  #2024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Not sure why they went for the BE brand at SEN in the first place. Maybe EI was unwilling to franchise its brand for an UK-based operation - or it was more expensive than BE.
Maybe it was that EI in the end thought allowing the franchise to extend to routes which had no Irish link was a step too far, but it would have been logical from the STK point of view to do it that way I would have thought.. I feel that the BE/STK franchise was perhaps the less preferred option at the time although it was obviously not touted as such by STK and did work out quite well as it turned out.

rog747

From a pax numbers point of view I should imagine that KM are quite pleased with their SEN adventure on all three routes. The routes are not seasonal and are on sale for the whole of next Summer. I think CTA is slightly more popular than CAG this summer. One passenger's experience of loadings I saw this week said: MLA-CTA was "full" and all but 24 of the pax disembarked there and the CTA-SEN was also "full" on departure. As far as I know KM are the only operator that offers Business Class on their flights from SEN.

Last edited by Expressflight; 21st Sep 2018 at 15:00. Reason: rephrasing in part
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 14:48
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
IIRC, EI has offered flights from the UK to third countries in the past (from LGW?), so apparently not a big no no.
Not sure if this ever got off the ground, but apparently EI did at least plan to set up a base at LGW with flights to Malaga, Munich, Nice, Vienna, Dublin, Knock, Faro and Zurich. That was back in 2008, but their ideas about stretching the brand to include such operations might very well have changed later on.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 17:21
  #2026 (permalink)  
 
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Aer Lingus set up a small base at Gatwick in spring 2009 - included routes to Munich and Nice. I think it lasted about 12 months before being closed down
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 21:24
  #2027 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by virginblue View Post
Not sure why they went for the BE brand at SEN in the first place. Maybe EI was unwilling to franchise its brand for an UK-based operation - or it was more expensive than BE. With the exception of the domestic destinations where Flybe has a sizeable presence, there was relatively little to gain from the BE brand as most of Stobart's destinations do not have Flybe services.
I honestly wouldn't want to run flights in the UK in that market any way other than under the flyBe brand. Not having any brand awareness has been the undoing of CityJet (and many others) in a post-travel agent world. There is limited room in people's memories for brands, and flyBEs is widely known, well advertised, and harmlessly neutral.

That said, an excellent second choice would have been Eddie Stobart, with green planes and adverts on lorries...

​​
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 21:26
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
Aer Lingus set up a small base at Gatwick in spring 2009 - included routes to Munich and Nice. I think it lasted about 12 months before being closed down
Pretty sure it was that autumn I flew Gatwick - Vilnius with them. Everyone I knew asked why I flew via Dublin when I could have got a direct flight from Stansted. They definitely had an inbuilt image problem ...
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 22:45
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Originally Posted by 01475 View Post
I honestly wouldn't want to run flights in the UK in that market any way other than under the flyBe brand. Not having any brand awareness has been the undoing of CityJet (and many others) in a post-travel agent world. There is limited room in people's memories for brands, and flyBEs is widely known, well advertised, and harmlessly neutral.
​​
While I would agree for pretty much all UK markets, I am not so sure about London. Flybe is a relative newcomer at LCY and LHR while LGW is down to one route these days. I don't think it is a much stronger brand in the London market than Aer Lingus.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 07:50
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IAG might well have also some influence if any of the potential destinations are served by group members!
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 09:03
  #2031 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with the view that the ATR and ERJ networks are different beasts. Getting SEN on the radar of Ryanair, AirMalta and easyJet was itís purpose. Itís been an expensive adeventure, although painting a pair of ATRs purple was relatively cheap, introducing the ERJs much more costly. Hopefully STK can find profitable work for them, otherwise they will become a noose like they were at flyBe.

Originally Posted by HZ123 View Post
IAG might well have also some influence if any of the potential destinations are served by group members!
Thatís not how IAG works. IAG is concerned with driving profit with back-room synergies, handling, IT etc.
For an example of the independence of IAGs OpCoís - EI has lent its brand to WX for LCY - the only competitor is BACityflyer.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 10:41
  #2032 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave View Post
Murcia also runs through the winter only to be dropped in March.
Flights to MJV in general are expected to transfer to Corvera when the former closes next year but perhaps there is still some uncertainty on this. I expect the 2 x weekly flights from SEN will be released in due course because the only two spare slots in the EZY Spring 2019 schedule are exactly those that are used to operate SEN-MJV this year.

There are no spare slots to allow a SEN-based aircraft to operate SEN-BUD so I wonder if that is indeed being dropped or will it operate on a W-pattern still to be released?
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 15:46
  #2033 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brian_dromey View Post
Thatís not how IAG works. IAG is concerned with driving profit with back-room synergies, handling, IT etc.
For an example of the independence of IAGs OpCoís - EI has lent its brand to WX for LCY - the only competitor is BACityflyer.
This got me thinking about the fact that BA itself works with franchise partners in the form of Sun-Air and Comair. Is there anything ruling out a 'British Airways operated by Stobart Air' operation?
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 16:22
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Originally Posted by Avnu View Post
This got me thinking about the fact that BA itself works with franchise partners in the form of Sun-Air and Comair. Is there anything ruling out a 'British Airways operated by Stobart Air' operation?
There is nothing to prevent that. You're getting warmer!
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 06:46
  #2035 (permalink)  
 
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SEN-TFS

Does this flight operate without payload penalties? Has it ever had to do a refuelling stop en-route?
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 13:13
  #2036 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tophat27dt View Post
There is nothing to prevent that. You're getting warmer!
But hasn't BA cut back franchising its brand to other airlines significantly in the past? They used to have BMED, GB Air, Loganair in the past, for a long time it has been just Comair and Sun Air.
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 13:50
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Do COMAIR/SUN AIR have suitable sized aircraft for the size of SENs runway?
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 13:51
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Originally Posted by mikkie4 View Post
Do COMAIR/SUN AIR have suitable sized aircraft for the size of SENs runway?
Comair certainly do. They just donít quite have the range however to reach Cape Town.....
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 14:29
  #2039 (permalink)  
 
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Sun Air does. It operates Dornier 328 aircraft including from LCY.
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 14:31
  #2040 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mikkie4 View Post
Do COMAIR/SUN AIR have suitable sized aircraft for the size of SENs runway?
......getting colder.....wait until November.
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