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Old 18th Jan 2019, 04:40
  #2221 (permalink)  
 
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No doubt from the passenger point of view it is urgently needed but from the council tax payers point of view it is a different story. The figure of 2.82 million passengers is based not on the current passenger figure but at the present maximum permitted cap of 18 million passengers if I have done my calculations correctly.

It would be easy for the protesters to claim that by doubling passenger numbers car journeys would also double but they appear to have done their research. The airport wants to increase the percentage of passengers arriving by train to 36% based on the fact that Gatwick has that figure. If they indeed reach that figure that would mean an additional 75% of car journeys based on a new total of 38 million passengers again based on simple maths.

It remains to be seen if that figure of 36% is every reached but while the dart journey might take 4 minutes passengers buying a second ticket to complete their journey to the terminal will take considerably longer. At the moment through tickets can be bought but many passengers buy tickets to Parkway and not the airport.

The airport is still claiming total journey times to London of under 30 minutes but they did not get their wish of 4 non-stop trains an hour. In fact the hourly service was cut back to remove peak hour trains, which will also impact on passenger numbers arriving by train.

Last edited by Spanish eyes; 18th Jan 2019 at 04:50.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 05:23
  #2222 (permalink)  
 
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The company that is putting in the trains together with the cables and winches has unsurprisingly won a 5 year contract with an additional potential 5 year extension to maintain it. Reading between the lines (no pun intended) during the off peak I think only one train will run, which will allow maintenance down time. Also there is no track switching or provision of spare rolling stock so if there was a cable fault on one track and a train fault on the other there would be no service. Looking at how many times the simple lifts break down in the multi-storey no doubt this will be happening. Basically a lift is a Dart but just operates up and down on a short track.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:36
  #2223 (permalink)  
 
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Wizz to increase flights to Timisoara from seven to twelve weekly from September but on the debit side the twice weekly service to Kharkov is to cease in February as mentioned earlier due to low demand.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:43
  #2224 (permalink)  
 
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LTNman, I suspect the cable is a continuous loop and thus the two separate train units are not independent of each other? If so then if one breaks then they are surely both out of action? Dopplmeyer is, as I understand it, primarily a ski lift company. I suspect one ‘train’ is assisted on it’s ascent (terminal bound) up the hill by the gravity of the descending (Parkway station bound) cabled ‘train.’ This is a system that Dopplmeyer uses frequently with various funicular railways throughout the world, indeed I suspect many would call this DART project a funicular rather than a train?
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 09:02
  #2225 (permalink)  
 
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Spanish eyes
You are correct , I am viewing this from a Passenger perspective.
You can’t blame Luton Council for lack of ambition, they obviously see the Airport, quite rightly as its biggest Asset.
They are doing nothing different to say MAG at STN , Stobart at SEN or Ontario Pensions at BHX in reinvesting in that Asset.
(The difference being where the profits go)

LTNman
At least the company providing the rolling stock is Doppelmayr , decades of experience operating equipment in hostile, sub zero temperatures— should be fine.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 10:32
  #2226 (permalink)  
 
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I would hope that more will use the train once it's there. Importantly it would make sense to shift drop off out of the central area to Parkway and the DART but I don't suppose there is provision for this in the hurried belated plan.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 13:06
  #2227 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alloy View Post
LTNman, I suspect the cable is a continuous loop and thus the two separate train units are not independent of each other? If so then if one breaks then they are surely both out of action? Dopplmeyer is, as I understand it, primarily a ski lift company. I suspect one ‘train’ is assisted on it’s ascent (terminal bound) up the hill by the gravity of the descending (Parkway station bound) cabled ‘train.’ This is a system that Dopplmeyer uses frequently with various funicular railways throughout the world, indeed I suspect many would call this DART project a funicular rather than a train?
I hear what you say but there is a proposal to add a station in the mid term car park. If the DART stopped to pick up passengers it would stop the other DART mid station.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 13:57
  #2228 (permalink)  
 
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Luton-Kharkiv must be selling really badly... if you have Wizz's discount club membership then for next week and the week after you can buy a oneway ticket for a 3h45m flight for £9 or (after UK APD, never mind airport fees) Wizz are providing a subsidy
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 15:31
  #2229 (permalink)  
 
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In my opinion it is not for a Borough Council to be investing £250m+ in a rail link.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 15:38
  #2230 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.businesstraveller.com/bu...uropean-plans/
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 06:15
  #2231 (permalink)  
 
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This is an an operational example of what Luton is getting from the company providing the actual DART. Also the rolling stock seems to be identical.

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Old 21st Jan 2019, 13:43
  #2232 (permalink)  
 
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Seems ideal to me. Does anyone know what the maximum gradient on the DART is- if it significant this is ideal as it overcomes the need for powerful electric motors on the trains which can be very very light as a result.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 16:54
  #2233 (permalink)  
 
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The rise is hight is 44m in a 2.2km journey although that is no reflection of the maximum gradients as some of the route will be on the flat. Seems more than that to me but that is what it says
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 18:24
  #2234 (permalink)  
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but from earlier posts it appears the trains are unpowered. The cable underneath provides the traction, towing the trains like a funicular railway. So no more "leaves on the line", "wrong type of snow" etc.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 18:42
  #2235 (permalink)  
 
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No traction power as it is cable hauled but it must pick up a power supply for lighting and announcements.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 19:14
  #2236 (permalink)  
 
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Grrr

Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
No traction power as it is cable hauled but it must pick up a power supply for lighting and announcements.
Hopefully LBC have ticked those option boxes?
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 20:15
  #2237 (permalink)  
 
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Cable Liner

Fair amount of information online for the Cable Liner.
Main points are each track is independent and if it fails mid route it gets pulled back to the station so no getting off midway and walking
Seems a nice bit of kit and should be reliable.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 02:16
  #2238 (permalink)  
 
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While the road is about to be temporarily diverted so the Dart cut and cover tunnel can be dug out there are no signs yet for the same to happen to the taxiway. When the exiting road was put in way back in 1999 it was a massive job as the taxiway had to be moved out of the way and then put back. Still wondering if they might tunnel under the taxiway.

The M1 bound A1081 has been reduced to a single lane for the Dart Gateway bridge work which is causing tailbacks from the airport. The road will remain a single lane for around a year.

The opening date for the Dart is the Autumn of 2021, which hasn’t changed despite the project starting 6 months late. As most airport projects overrun I am thinking it was open in 2022.



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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 07:54
  #2239 (permalink)  
 
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Could taxiway alpha be closed completely with all traffic routed via echo which wasn't there in 1997?
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 08:42
  #2240 (permalink)  
 
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Aircraft above a certain size are not allowed to taxi under their own power along Echo and have to be towed. Hence the Tui 757's departing from outside the hangar always route via Bravo (Alpha became Bravo between the main apron and the intersection when the Bravo extension opened, end of 2017 IIRC). Not sure if the 787 would be permitted even under tow. Wouldn't affect 738/A319/A320/A321 as far as I am aware (i.e. 99% of commercial traffic).
Aerodrome chart here:-
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2018-08-16.pdf

Last edited by cj241101; 22nd Jan 2019 at 08:53.
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