Monarch 4
I believe the Mantegazza family were unintentionally 'steering' Monarch steadily towards the 'rocks' before Greybull acquired the airline although the last three years under their control the situation has only got worse with the upsetting news we've all woken up to today with an official announcement regarding the final demise of Monarch a true end of an era in British aviation.
the airline saved
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 1st Floor
Age: 33
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Best advice for the guys is not to sit in shock but get straight out there. Cathay Pacific may be interested and anyone with Canadian connections, AC about to hire 450.
Hong Kong Airlines going to be bigger than CX in 5 years I hear and desperate for the kind of experience these Monarch guys have.
.
Hong Kong Airlines going to be bigger than CX in 5 years I hear and desperate for the kind of experience these Monarch guys have.
.
HKA - they have a few planes on order but have a queue of Malaysian pilots inline to fill their needs. Theres no way they ever going to challeng CX on fleet size. More equatable to CXDragon.
Asia is not the answer for most, unless its china and the big $$$. But having 20 years in Monarch n going to china .. ffs thats a gutsy move .
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LGW
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First off, sad news for those who may now be unemployed. Don't wish that for anyone.
That said the superlatives are flying a bit too loosely off the tongue here.
Monarch was a middle of the road, run of the mill airline that brought nothing extra to the industry. Britannia were around flying package holidays a good many years before Monarch.
Sad another airline is going to disappear but at the end of the day it was just another airline. Nothing innovative, nothing special, certainly nothing to justify some of the lavish comments here.
That said the superlatives are flying a bit too loosely off the tongue here.
Monarch was a middle of the road, run of the mill airline that brought nothing extra to the industry. Britannia were around flying package holidays a good many years before Monarch.
Sad another airline is going to disappear but at the end of the day it was just another airline. Nothing innovative, nothing special, certainly nothing to justify some of the lavish comments here.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all Monarch Staff
Its not great that you hear on Sky News of your employers demise I had the same xx years ago when Laker went bust and I heard on the radio - nothing changes - the Company would have dearly loved to have told you.
Someone asked why you couldn't rescue your pax rather than a bunch of Qatari A320's - likely insurance or high risk someone would clamp on of your planes.
After two redundancies I can only offer you these thoughts;
1. Crews will get jobs pretty quick - might not be where they want but they will.
2. Ground Staff might take a little longer, its a crap place to be but in my experience I came out a better person. Be as positive as you can be!
3. If there's any comfort everyone i've chatted to today said Monarch was an airline they would loved to have worked for.
Good Luck
Its not great that you hear on Sky News of your employers demise I had the same xx years ago when Laker went bust and I heard on the radio - nothing changes - the Company would have dearly loved to have told you.
Someone asked why you couldn't rescue your pax rather than a bunch of Qatari A320's - likely insurance or high risk someone would clamp on of your planes.
After two redundancies I can only offer you these thoughts;
1. Crews will get jobs pretty quick - might not be where they want but they will.
2. Ground Staff might take a little longer, its a crap place to be but in my experience I came out a better person. Be as positive as you can be!
3. If there's any comfort everyone i've chatted to today said Monarch was an airline they would loved to have worked for.
Good Luck
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just consider where Jet2 were ten years ago...
or how many flights wizzair had into Monarch's Luton backyard ten years ago vs now.
MON management relied on their 'history' and fat paychecks while the world passed them by.
This has been coming for many years and yes the wool was somewhat pulled over the Mantegazza's eyes by yes-men. Andrew Swaffield's statement reeks of still not having a clue what to do right up to the last knockings.
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't understand the logic of sending six aircraft from to the UK surely they need to fly direct the destinations where pax need to leave, for example Tel Aviv to Luton? Can someone explain this?
Sencondly, based on the facts, I wonder if the CAA and ATOL have as previously mentioned on here, has anyone at the CAA or ATOL costed this out so they could operate for another two weeks. I apperciate there would need to be a guarantee of fuel charges, navigation charges, staff costs, bad debts, etc. being paid for the next two weeks. To add I would have thought crew would be prepared to fly for another two weeks, if they were paid in full up to that date.
It is rather a pity that the customers who booked with Monarch who paid for a quality experience, suffer as a result of low cost airlines, perhaps there should be a similar ATOL levey on flights that cost less than £25 (4%) and £50 (4%) that would have allowed Monarch's crews to recover their PAX. Personally I would put a levey on non business flight for example Luton to Faro for the day, it not very enviromental in terms of fuel use. Meanwhile the EU bans 1500w vacumn cleaners on the grounds of energy use and noise.
Finally I am not a lawyer, but is it correct in mpounding aircraft, my impression is that under English Law, that High Court baliffs can take control over goods, which could include a car which you could still use. I see no reason why Monarch pilot's could contune to fly, although perhaps an aircraft an aircraft is in danger of getting seized, lets say if if landed at SKG and had not paid fuel and landing fees and as previously mentioned this might be an insurance issue. Of course if the airframe and or engines are leased it is a different situation, I think.
Sencondly, based on the facts, I wonder if the CAA and ATOL have as previously mentioned on here, has anyone at the CAA or ATOL costed this out so they could operate for another two weeks. I apperciate there would need to be a guarantee of fuel charges, navigation charges, staff costs, bad debts, etc. being paid for the next two weeks. To add I would have thought crew would be prepared to fly for another two weeks, if they were paid in full up to that date.
It is rather a pity that the customers who booked with Monarch who paid for a quality experience, suffer as a result of low cost airlines, perhaps there should be a similar ATOL levey on flights that cost less than £25 (4%) and £50 (4%) that would have allowed Monarch's crews to recover their PAX. Personally I would put a levey on non business flight for example Luton to Faro for the day, it not very enviromental in terms of fuel use. Meanwhile the EU bans 1500w vacumn cleaners on the grounds of energy use and noise.
Finally I am not a lawyer, but is it correct in mpounding aircraft, my impression is that under English Law, that High Court baliffs can take control over goods, which could include a car which you could still use. I see no reason why Monarch pilot's could contune to fly, although perhaps an aircraft an aircraft is in danger of getting seized, lets say if if landed at SKG and had not paid fuel and landing fees and as previously mentioned this might be an insurance issue. Of course if the airframe and or engines are leased it is a different situation, I think.
Last edited by Homsap; 2nd Oct 2017 at 15:34.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And here's another unionised pretty good T's & C's airline that has gone bye bye, and not due to being unionised and having good T's & C's. Damn; that mantra we often hear about how being unionised causes all sorts of bad thing to happen. Oh my. It can't be true it was not their fault because that doesn't fit the mantra. Flight crew, generally, just fly where & when they are told to: someone else decides the where & with what & how often and at what price.
Hang in guys & gals and find sunshine somewhere for the rest of your career.
Hang in guys & gals and find sunshine somewhere for the rest of your career.
Is that enough?
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ZRH
Age: 43
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to clarify the question of why Monarch themselves aren’t performing the rescue flights. In law, once a company is declared insolvent and ceases trading as they did at 4am they are no longer permitted to engage in any trade whatsoever. Undertaking a revenue flight, or receiving a fee from the CAA to operate rescue flights would be against the rules. Besides that, who’s going to fuel and handle a Monarch aircraft at the moment?
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: BHX
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sure is, which is the only bit of good news to come out of Luton the last few days or another couple of UK airlines would be in trouble! A Virgin 787 in BHX plus all the Flybe work that is done by MAEL. I'd guess now their main customer at MAN and BHX is Flybe, the aircraft (and TUPE'd engineers) most of the original Monarchists couldn't stand.
Last edited by In Mon I Trust; 2nd Oct 2017 at 16:00. Reason: poor spelling
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 60
Posts: 3,788
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As one of my friends said who benefited from career advancement with them "A sad day for aviation, as Monarch NEVER lost a hull or airplane in its nearly 50 years of operation, great training and great people helped that!" but he did leave 10+ years ago.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very sorry to here the news
Many moons ago I was Luton based with BAL. Monarch always seemed a classy outfit. Fond memories . I hope it works out for the many dedicated and had working staff.
Last edited by Staggers; 2nd Oct 2017 at 23:18.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 2,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saw this online earlier from Aer Lingus:
#Monarch pilots: Let's talk! Hourly open information sessions for Airbus type-rated pilots. Radisson Manchester Airport, Tue 3 Oct, 9am-3pm
https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/914886892436549632
#Monarch pilots: Let's talk! Hourly open information sessions for Airbus type-rated pilots. Radisson Manchester Airport, Tue 3 Oct, 9am-3pm
https://twitter.com/AerLingus/status/914886892436549632
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Leeds
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They can't be faulted for *lack* of patience with Monarch.
They were right, and even Monarch aren't saying they weren't. This show couldn't have lasted another year; there would have been a disorganised collapse at some random time.
It's sad nobody wanted to buy it. I'm wondering if something awful has been done to its assets (borrowing secured against slots or something like that), or if the industry really is in a *terrible* mess.
They were right, and even Monarch aren't saying they weren't. This show couldn't have lasted another year; there would have been a disorganised collapse at some random time.
It's sad nobody wanted to buy it. I'm wondering if something awful has been done to its assets (borrowing secured against slots or something like that), or if the industry really is in a *terrible* mess.
So the ATOL renewal at the end of Sept is at a time when Monarch have the most money - after a summer season which should be the busiest time for it and before the winter kicks in where the losses occur.
The end note from AS event states it was because of the projected loss rather then it has run out of money now.
There's some seriously unanswered questions about this.
Clearly ZB management knew about this days ago - they had to make price adjustments on Saturday to be live for Sunday. The CAA had a ton of information ready to go and had apparently been arranging flights since mid to late last week.
The shelfco setup etc
The airline even received offers - whats potentially sad is that it may have been bought or taken over but again greybull felt that it was worth more in scraps then selling nicely forgetting the staff etc.
Also if ZB knew on Saturday why was it still letting people turn up at airports - it had the Ibiza people partially on the plane - utter contempt for staff and passengers.
As the letter from AS - crowing about greybull - well he would given he'll still be on payroll for MAEL. Did he forget the courage of his staff taking massive cuts and pensions to save the business.
"The root cause terrorisim" - Seriously you cant make this up. Nothing about lack of direction, failure to respond to the market.
"We asked a respected aviation consulting firm to review how we could improve our short haul network" - More consultancy fees. After 50 years in business you'd think ZB could have some idea.
"At the same time we built our long haul plans and asked them to validate these plans, which they did, and agreed that they were attractive and viable" - This is LH which MON dumped only a couple of years earlier when they wanted to go head to head with the LCC's.
"Regrettably although there was considerable interest, there was no deliverable offer" - This is what makes me think Greybull decided it was worth more in bits rather then as a going concern. It got offers but just none that it accepted.
"I am so sorry that thousands now face a cancelled holiday or trip, possible delays getting home and huge inconvenience as a result of our failure" Yet they still let people go to the airports for departures on late Sunday and early Monday despite seemingly knowing what decision they'd made days earlier.
"You can all hold your heads up high and be proud of what you achieved at Monarch" Can greybull and management though?
Yet another business in the UK offloaded to private equity for a few quid or less only to be stripped apart once its been bled of anything of value. It will be very interesting to see what consultancy fees and payments end up going back to greybull - which i imagine wont end up with a loss when all said and done.
Monarch.
Not sure you have to bring innovation to the market to gain respect. What I had respect for when I worked there was the dedication to make things work whilst being professional at the same time. The fact that there was no 'them and us' between pilots, cabin crew and engineers meant that it was easy to work there.
In total agreement with you and any other admirers of the airline. When I was in the business, Monarch were always regarded as a class act and many of us would have loved to fly for the airline, even disregarding their good T&Cs at the time.
Your comment about "making things work” is so true and didn’t just apply within the Company.
On one occasion, I had an emergency job necessitating a trip through Russian airspace and we didn’t have the charts in our library. I tried everybody, including God’s Lot. I was having no success until I popped on board a Monarch A300 and the skipper let me have his F/O’s copy. I dropped him a tenner to get his crew a drink.(Enough in those days !) and then charged my Company on my expenses !
Another case was the making up a lack of therapeutic oxygen bottles when we had a problem with a passenger on the way to TCI. We weren’t going anywhere until we could make up the regulation requirement. It could have meant a VERY large bill for overnighting our pax and crew until a substitute aircraft arrived.
However, Monarch was our Handling Agent and Engineering backup when we were working out of Luton and, after a while, I nipped on to an arriving Monarch Airbus at TCI and posed the problem to my counterpart.
"What’s the problem ? We have spares in the hold and enough to be legal for the return flight. Check it out with Engineering when you’re back at Luton."
So we were on our way with a minimum delay and fuss because of the calibre of crew that Monarch employed. Full marks.
No problem with Engineering at Luton either. Straight forward exchange of bottles for our next outbound and a signature. Monarch in my book were always an example of a good operator.
In comparison, I got a call from our own Engineering department a couple of weeks later asking why I hadn’t put the serial numbers of the Monarch bottles in the Tech.Log. !!
I had no trouble in explaining, in words of one syllable, why some airlines, and the way their crews are allowed to operate, are good and others are a pain in the arse.
That’s why it’s such a shame that such fine airlines are allowed to go to the wall. I hope all accountants are listening.
Some reputations are made on more than a bl**dy balance sheet.
