Monarch 4
the first pair of BMA 707's (1970ish) were originally going to op out of EMA/CDD to USA but that turned out to be a nightmare for the pax and operations as the shops and cafes were not open and HM Customs had to come from Hull when the early morning arrivals were due in from the States - you couldn't make it up -
I gather that the flights were then due to op from LTN (they may have done a few?) but soon it was all sent over to STN
Last edited by rog747; 21st Sep 2017 at 16:36.
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Bit of thread drift...but yup the original BMA seven 0`s were ex Pan Am -321`s the same as the Lloyd International original two ...Pan Am centered a part liason/engineering package around ATEL at STN which supported those original op`s... Yes & while true concerning the aborted ops from Castle Don as it was in those days,it also made sense to be closer to the engineering support...I don`t believe LTN was ever in the equation when it came to the Transatlantic ops as even with STN`s 10,000ft R/W with 186 pax & full fuel load & those old model engines Lloyd could not plan a direct flight to say Toronto on the ABC`s some days but would file technically into Gander & then with a how goes it with the fuel were be able most times to request an en route diversion to the intended destination. This was the case on warm summer day departures to JFK too.(The 321C was the game changer as Lloyd could do STN-LAX direct or certainly LAX-STN direct..
BMA had two 707 main passenger periods (when flying for themselves and not some dodgy outfit in Africa or in the Deserts)
YBJ and YVE were the first 2 (old ex Pan Am -321 ships) and they flew from 1970 until 1972 in two versions of BMA colours on all sorts of charters both short and long haul mainly from STN but could be seen anywhere.
there was another period in mid 70's when they were repainted in the newer third version of BMA colours (just this pair, not the 4 ex Donaldson)
they were both retired in 1977
the next passenger period came for the 1982 season onward until sold in 1985 when three 707-320C's BFLD/LE and BMAZ were re-fitted with new 757 type larger aft exits, new wide look interiors, 212 new seats and galleys but no IFE.
They flew purely BMA IT's and Affinity ABC charter Ops to the Med & Canaries and USA/Canada.
1 each at MAN and LGW and 1 to alternate with BHX and EMA
the idea and hope was that this re-vamped trio would be able to operate the USA routes from LHR and MAN that SMB was so desperate to obtain but he failed to secure those licences for many years -
he was looking to replace the 707-320C's with DC8-63's (possibly re-engined 73's) if he was awarded the USA schedules.
Bit of thread drift...but yup the original BMA seven 0`s were ex Pan Am -321`s the same as the Lloyd International original two ...Pan Am centered a part liason/engineering package around ATEL at STN which supported those original op`s... Yes & while true concerning the aborted ops from Castle Don as it was in those days,it also made sense to be closer to the engineering support...I don`t believe LTN was ever in the equation when it came to the Transatlantic ops as even with STN`s 10,000ft R/W with 186 pax & full fuel load & those old model engines Lloyd could not plan a direct flight to say Toronto on the ABC`s some days but would file technically into Gander & then with a how goes it with the fuel were be able most times to request an en route diversion to the intended destination. This was the case on warm summer day departures to JFK too.(The 321C was the game changer as Lloyd could do STN-LAX direct or certainly LAX-STN direct..
yes BMA's first pair were -321's (ex Pan Am) YVE & YBJ and I only have anecdotal evidence that a few Transatlantic ops were done from LTN before moving as you say, everything plus engineering to STN
Dan Air (YSL & ZTG) and Lloyd Intl (YAG & YRZ) also obtained a pair each with Donaldson taking 4 (ZWA BAEL YXR YVG)
(all were older -321's coal burners from Pan Am, with Donaldson refitting 3 of theirs with a freight door but with no other cargo mods.
Channel Airways was also looking at getting a pair too but they went under.
Lloyd Intl as you mention obtained a 707-324C (ZJM) in 1971 from CO which also ended up with BMA some years later in 1980 which I handled at LHR on a PIA KHI passenger contract we had - beautiful small first class cabin too with amazing food!
I can smell it cooking now! Nice folk at PIA.
well that's a wander down memory lane -
back to Monarch
and yes the 720B's went via Gandar or the Azores to St Lucia and the Caribbean islands.
the max pax load was 170Y - not sure if they reduced that for the long slogs.
MON/OM also leased in 1981 from BCAL a 707-355C (XRS) which enabled non-stops
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One more quickly before these are banished to nostalgia corner..Yes flew as pax on `YAG & `YRZ..in one believe it or not on a crew training detail & in the "back" of the cockpit watching a senior Britannia captain in the right hand seat converting to the "seven 0"..(never had seen a person sweat so much as when he was setting up & flying his first approaches)..well we survived along with go rounds & full stops..One time flew ZSD (as STN was in those days) to GVA to celebrate Lloyd`s 10th Anniversary at the Chairman`s (Ortiz-Patino) villa on Lake Geneva...Never rode in the 321C,it was engaged for a while on the affinity group charters mainly to LAX as it had the legs,but a major usage for it before Lloyd`s demise was flying for EL AL..a Britannia had been engaged on fruit (avocado) cargo flights out of TLV before..When one of these aircraft arrived back at STN it was one of my duties to change all the a/c`s paperwork (tech logs) etc as when it went back to Lloyd flights & if it happened to land in any other Middle East country there was no evidence it had been flying for El AL....Ray Hanna (Red Arrows fame) joined Lloyd to great publicity as a "seven 0" pilot but with all due respect I seem to recall it took quite a lot to covert him & get a rating...but perhaps that was all a bit of back biting by the established crews...Yes Channel were thought to be acquiring Boeing`s but their source was said to be Continental....Woah enough already & all pulled right out the v back of the memory..that was a long time ago...
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Love the memory lane stuff above. Takes me back to my days as a Reginald S. Potter at Prestwick where every single aircraft mentioned above crew trained at one time or the other. Reverting to Monarch - I think they are in a difficult position. As I see it, and I am happy to be corrected, they have tried to establish their USP as being "nicer" than Ryanair or Easy and hoping people will pay a little extra for that. However we then come up against the frequently misquoted (including by me) "Nobody ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the public" meaning, in this case, that regardless of the current FR fiasco, in a few months time the vast majority of the public will continue to gravitate towards the cheapest fare and in those circumstances you only win by being the lowest cost provider. I wish Monarch all the best but I struggle to see where they fit long term.
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I think grey bull bought the company with the sole intent to turn it into a more valuable entity to sell (obvious but bare with me) - I'm personally not sure they ever had the intention of turning the airline/brand into the next big thing or even to make it a steadily profitable airline (although if they stumbled upon this in the process they'd of sure been delighted!).
Looking at the rumours in the news during the past few days, I would speculate that they want to revert their 'holiday' business to long haul using leased 330s in the very near future, whilst going ahead with their fleet replacement of short haul aircraft to the 73s with the eventual intent of selling the business to Jet2 who are basically doing exactly the same thing.
Monarchs value comes from its slots and infrastructure in the south (something that Jet2 lacks but is steadily and successfully growing), and a few years down the line, buying Monarch may be a no brainer for Jet2s full expansion into the south - even if they have to trim the company down slightly in regards to bases. MON moving into long haul is probably just an idea spawned by consultants as they just want to create a more attractive proposition to perspective buyers.... "45 shiny 737s to slot into your fleet, valuable slots and a nice long haul holiday business thats flexible due to wet leasing!"
Like a lot of consultancy based strategies its probably fairly disconnected with what occurs in practice.
As for potential 'airline partnerships' mentioned in the news, I really don't get this; Easy will never partner, they've already done it with Norwegian and have no reason to bother with old airbus from MON, they're in the process of bringing in their NEOs. RYR - well, ha! Thomson, Thomas Cook would never happen.
Jet2 seem the obvious again, but they are managing a very successful and profitable expansion. A partnership would presumably offer pax the opportunity to book with either company and utilise each others base networks, working together - however Jet2 has carefully managed their holiday brand and surely wouldn't want it diluted by confusing customers with a mixed product offering
Looking at the rumours in the news during the past few days, I would speculate that they want to revert their 'holiday' business to long haul using leased 330s in the very near future, whilst going ahead with their fleet replacement of short haul aircraft to the 73s with the eventual intent of selling the business to Jet2 who are basically doing exactly the same thing.
Monarchs value comes from its slots and infrastructure in the south (something that Jet2 lacks but is steadily and successfully growing), and a few years down the line, buying Monarch may be a no brainer for Jet2s full expansion into the south - even if they have to trim the company down slightly in regards to bases. MON moving into long haul is probably just an idea spawned by consultants as they just want to create a more attractive proposition to perspective buyers.... "45 shiny 737s to slot into your fleet, valuable slots and a nice long haul holiday business thats flexible due to wet leasing!"
Like a lot of consultancy based strategies its probably fairly disconnected with what occurs in practice.
As for potential 'airline partnerships' mentioned in the news, I really don't get this; Easy will never partner, they've already done it with Norwegian and have no reason to bother with old airbus from MON, they're in the process of bringing in their NEOs. RYR - well, ha! Thomson, Thomas Cook would never happen.
Jet2 seem the obvious again, but they are managing a very successful and profitable expansion. A partnership would presumably offer pax the opportunity to book with either company and utilise each others base networks, working together - however Jet2 has carefully managed their holiday brand and surely wouldn't want it diluted by confusing customers with a mixed product offering
One thing about a possible Monarch-Jet2 tie-up is the fleets. Monarch is going Boeing but it still has a substantial Airbus fleet in the meantime. Would it be possible to dispose of the Airbuses before the leases expire in order to gain commonality ? Or not ?
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I'm no economist but reading MON last financial report, they wrote off all loses associated with the airbus-boeing fleet change in their last set of accounts - at least thats what they said they did (like I said, I'm no accountant and can make head nor tail of most company accounts). Maybe an early disposal is on the cards as you mentioned? logistics/changing crew onto Boeing would be the issue. I don't see how they could change fleet any quicker than they already are
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what a daft sentiment.
one of those airlines is profitable
one is haemorrhaging cash
I don't actually think Monarch themselves would have a say in the matter, if Greybull salvage some exit cash they wouldn't care about reputations, heritage or your one eyed opinion!
one of those airlines is profitable
one is haemorrhaging cash
I don't actually think Monarch themselves would have a say in the matter, if Greybull salvage some exit cash they wouldn't care about reputations, heritage or your one eyed opinion!
one of those airlines is profitable
one is haemorrhaging cash
one is haemorrhaging cash
