Airports long term finacing problems
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SEN, NQY, LEQ, SOU, NCL, BRS, CWL, EXT, GLA etc. are also close to the coast and without the same problem!
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HarryWayfarers.....Blimey Harry...you obviously were never a costermonger in a previous professional career then...... you have a lot of "apples & pears" in that list me ole mate...
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Could we have that in English please. Coastal airports, JFK, AMS, NRT, HKG.and many others, not English true but very successful. Oh! and at one time there was going to be Maplin and Boris Island in the Thames Estuary.The rest of the world gets on with it, we can't even put down a few extra feet of concrete to the west of London. 'Apples and bleedin' pears is just about right!
For all that we hear of hard times, airports continue to change hands for ever increasing sums. London City has been sold a few times over the years, each time it's for a substantial amount more than the previous occasion. Profitability seems to come from increase of asset value as much as trading.
Those airports on the coast that do prosper are likely to be close to a major conurbation, or serving an otherwise-isolated region: SEN (London/Essex), LEQ, NQY (isolated but hardly prospering), SOU (affluent Hampshire), NCL (Tyneside/NE). BRS (affluent westcountry), CWL (Cardiff/valleys), EXT (affluent Devon/isolated), GLA (Strathclyde).
However, I reiterate that it is noticeable that a significant proportion of the airports that have closed (in Britain) are coastal.
However, I reiterate that it is noticeable that a significant proportion of the airports that have closed (in Britain) are coastal.
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Those airports on the coast that do prosper are likely to be close to a major conurbation, or serving an otherwise-isolated region: SEN (London/Essex), LEQ, NQY (isolated but hardly prospering), SOU (affluent Hampshire), NCL (Tyneside/NE). BRS (affluent westcountry), CWL (Cardiff/valleys), EXT (affluent Devon/isolated), GLA (Strathclyde).
However, I reiterate that it is noticeable that a significant proportion of the airports that have closed (in Britain) are coastal.
However, I reiterate that it is noticeable that a significant proportion of the airports that have closed (in Britain) are coastal.
SOU doesn't merely serve Hampshire, SOU's success, despite all it's restrictions, comes from having an airport rail station with direct services from/to London, as far as, in particular, the Channel Islands are concerned SOU is another London airport!
How about Cambridge, nowhere near the coast and passenger services have failed dismally ... Pretty much ditto for London/Oxford also.
And as for why 'Leeds East' isn't prospering ... Now that's quite a story
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[QUOTE=Heathrow Harry;9865794]
"Quote = Airports cost a lot to build and run - whoever owns them has to get a return on the captal otherwise you're running a subsidised oepration and someone (eg the rate payer or taxpayer) is paying."
Well it seems to work for a certain non English airport not a million miles from here
"Quote = Airports cost a lot to build and run - whoever owns them has to get a return on the captal otherwise you're running a subsidised oepration and someone (eg the rate payer or taxpayer) is paying."
Well it seems to work for a certain non English airport not a million miles from here
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The next major expansion in UK will probably be Heathrow.
The surrounding infastructure will be picked up as part of national infastructure spend, whilst there is a recommendation that even actual runway costs will be underwritten by the Government as this will ensure shareholder confidence.
I suspect those MPs who are against Heathrow have picked on this.
They may use air quality as an excuse but is there a reluctance not to ring fence investment in a national asset which will pull in many billions in corporation tax and dividends.
(I have excluded Manchester and indeed Stansted as they appear ti be fully funded by MAG) so are not part of the debate
The surrounding infastructure will be picked up as part of national infastructure spend, whilst there is a recommendation that even actual runway costs will be underwritten by the Government as this will ensure shareholder confidence.
I suspect those MPs who are against Heathrow have picked on this.
They may use air quality as an excuse but is there a reluctance not to ring fence investment in a national asset which will pull in many billions in corporation tax and dividends.
(I have excluded Manchester and indeed Stansted as they appear ti be fully funded by MAG) so are not part of the debate
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Blackpool also has the ADF at £10 a head.
Yet Blackpool closed to commercial flights.
One can only assume it was poorley managed and despite high pax numbers and route expansion - Jet2 must have been paying a pittence for landing fees.
Lots of factors are against small airports and IMO none are safe.
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Yes but Blackpool had a decent catchment area. Blackpool had decent pax numbers. The airport not long before it closed, jet2 was expanding it's number of routes. Also Blackpool was easy to use and a runway better than SEN at the time. The difference was BB owned Blackpool Airport.
Blackpool also has the ADF at £10 a head.
Yet Blackpool closed to commercial flights.
One can only assume it was poorley managed and despite high pax numbers and route expansion - Jet2 must have been paying a pittence for landing fees.
Lots of factors are against small airports and IMO none are safe.
Blackpool also has the ADF at £10 a head.
Yet Blackpool closed to commercial flights.
One can only assume it was poorley managed and despite high pax numbers and route expansion - Jet2 must have been paying a pittence for landing fees.
Lots of factors are against small airports and IMO none are safe.
Humberside is one that is struggling for sure, and I imagine its not being helped by the growth at DSA. Humberside has a decent catchment area too, Hull is a big city, plus Grimsby and Scunthorpe.
In their favour, there will always be people who will choose to fly from a smaller local airport when possible. I'm from Sheffield and certainly prefer to avoid MAN when possible, despite the train link.
If airports were such a poor financial prospect you wouldn't have significant numbers of them falling into the hands of various financial organisations very much at the speculation end of the scale.
Profitability may be one goal, but another is the increase in asset value over the short/medium term (these sorts of businesses don't do long term).
London City, pretty small in the scale of things, now seems to be regularly sold on from one financial organisation to the next, each time at a notable increase (maybe double) what was paid for it some years before.
Profitability may be one goal, but another is the increase in asset value over the short/medium term (these sorts of businesses don't do long term).
London City, pretty small in the scale of things, now seems to be regularly sold on from one financial organisation to the next, each time at a notable increase (maybe double) what was paid for it some years before.
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After Blackpool closed (and I never thought a niche airport would close), I had to use Manchester.
Going was not to bad, coming back paticular late was a nightmare after Blackpool which was just a couple of hundred yards from the carousel.
I don't know how SEN copes with all the massive competition they have to face - Luton, Heathrow, Gatwick and Standstead.
Mind you they have Stobart we had BB at BLK.
I am sure there is a place for small airports, people like them but they are an endangered spieces.
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"If airports were such a poor financial prospect you wouldn't have significant numbers of them falling into the hands of various financial organisations very much at the speculation end of the scale."
Buying a failing airport doesn't cost very much - and when it becomes uneconomic you get a vast area of open, flat LAND that you don't have to decontaminate, drain, is normally connected with reasonable roads or even rail links and with locals who have no great love for the noise etc from current operations. A developers dream TBH
Buying a failing airport doesn't cost very much - and when it becomes uneconomic you get a vast area of open, flat LAND that you don't have to decontaminate, drain, is normally connected with reasonable roads or even rail links and with locals who have no great love for the noise etc from current operations. A developers dream TBH
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CWL was given "loans" by the Welsh Government (that might have been illegal) include marketing support for Flybe routes Welsh government loans to airport 'could breach rules' - BBC News
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You really think DSA is likely to disappear? Brexit brings uncertainties I know but Wizz had carried it for years and has been adding routes. As long as Wizz remains I think Donny is safe whatever else happens. It has a decent catchment area and awareness and PAX are growing.
I do agree that some smaller airports are likely to face tougher times or fold altogether though, especially if we have another major recession. Blackpool is a good example of how a smaller airport's fortunes can decline for the reasons you suggest above.
I do agree that some smaller airports are likely to face tougher times or fold altogether though, especially if we have another major recession. Blackpool is a good example of how a smaller airport's fortunes can decline for the reasons you suggest above.
DSA's only hope is in freight.
Wizz are scaling back though. Compare next summers schedule with that of a couple of years ago. There is a big difference. Add to that a few more years, and you'll see it cut back even further. That leaves Thomson and Flybe (who are looking at going back to their core services which won't include DSA).
DSA's only hope is in freight.
DSA's only hope is in freight.
Here's a reply to him earlier
http://www.pprune.org/7398498-post81.html
Note the date and year
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Can't you just tell its first of September? Timmy's out with the there's no flights from DSA next year, they're all being cut infantile dross he rolls out year after year.
Here's a reply to him earlier
http://www.pprune.org/7398498-post81.html
Note the date and year
Here's a reply to him earlier
http://www.pprune.org/7398498-post81.html
Note the date and year
