Will a 744 do Brisbane, Australia to New York Direct?
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Will a 744 do Brisbane, Australia to New York Direct?
So a number of questions I am hoping that those who know for sure might be able to answer.
Assumptions:
50 passengers with 30kg of baggage
500 kg freight
Could a 747-400 fly from Brisbane to New York Direct with the above payload?
What would be the average cruising speed with that payload? ( have seen everything from 413kts to 525kts quoted).
What would be your best guess with prevailing winds for a mid March flight of the ground speed/flight time?
I know the last question is at best a wild guess but I am hoping some experienced guys or girls on here may be able to provide a ballpark figure.
I am in the early stages of planning a charter for a large group and we want to use a 747 as (I believe?) they are faster than the A380 (time is of the essence - shame the Concord isn't still flying!) and saving 30-60 mins is essential. We did look at the 787 but my client has decided on the 747 just because it is a bigger billboard. I have not yet approached any charter companies or airlines, as I am just entertaining the possible at this stage. If it is remotely possible then it gives me some ideas to go off and we can proceed to formally approaching some providers.
If anyone knows of a faster aircraft that may have that range with 50 pax, I am all ears.
Last question, what is a 747-400's max cruise speed, where fuel burn is not a consideration, with 200 pax and over no more than 3000nm?
All answers very much appreciated.
Cheers
CB
Assumptions:
50 passengers with 30kg of baggage
500 kg freight
Could a 747-400 fly from Brisbane to New York Direct with the above payload?
What would be the average cruising speed with that payload? ( have seen everything from 413kts to 525kts quoted).
What would be your best guess with prevailing winds for a mid March flight of the ground speed/flight time?
I know the last question is at best a wild guess but I am hoping some experienced guys or girls on here may be able to provide a ballpark figure.
I am in the early stages of planning a charter for a large group and we want to use a 747 as (I believe?) they are faster than the A380 (time is of the essence - shame the Concord isn't still flying!) and saving 30-60 mins is essential. We did look at the 787 but my client has decided on the 747 just because it is a bigger billboard. I have not yet approached any charter companies or airlines, as I am just entertaining the possible at this stage. If it is remotely possible then it gives me some ideas to go off and we can proceed to formally approaching some providers.
If anyone knows of a faster aircraft that may have that range with 50 pax, I am all ears.
Last question, what is a 747-400's max cruise speed, where fuel burn is not a consideration, with 200 pax and over no more than 3000nm?
All answers very much appreciated.
Cheers
CB
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atakacs,
That was our original planning, but the task has grown now to significantly larger. Even so, long range cruise of the G650 is Mach 0.85 and that is with 8 pax only. Plus I don't believe the G650 could do Brisbane-New York (It could do LA but that is an extra stop and thus an extra 90 mins or so on the ground all things going well for the turnaround).
Heathrow Harry, We will not have to deal with US immigration.
canberra,
Maybe it would be and I might yet have to go there! I was hoping that some "professional pilots" who have flown these aircraft may be able to chime in.
Cheers
CB
That was our original planning, but the task has grown now to significantly larger. Even so, long range cruise of the G650 is Mach 0.85 and that is with 8 pax only. Plus I don't believe the G650 could do Brisbane-New York (It could do LA but that is an extra stop and thus an extra 90 mins or so on the ground all things going well for the turnaround).
Heathrow Harry, We will not have to deal with US immigration.
canberra,
Maybe it would be and I might yet have to go there! I was hoping that some "professional pilots" who have flown these aircraft may be able to chime in.
Cheers
CB
Assumptions:
50 passengers with 30kg of baggage
500 kg freight
50 passengers with 30kg of baggage
500 kg freight
Could a 747-400 fly from Brisbane to New York Direct with the above payload?
What would be the average cruising speed with that payload? ( have seen everything from 413kts to 525kts quoted).
What would be your best guess with prevailing winds for a mid March flight of the ground speed/flight time?
I know the last question is at best a wild guess but I am hoping some experienced guys or girls on here may be able to provide a ballpark figure.
Last question, what is a 747-400's max cruise speed, where fuel burn is not a consideration, with 200 pax and over no more than 3000nm?
Quick answers so my best guesstimates. Sounds like a fun project. I have manuals and planning info available. If you would like more detailed information, PM me.
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So, assume a payload of 6,000kg
Yes, I think so but it could be tight! Hopefully your aircraft will have the Stab Tank fitted
Long-Range Cruise is M0.85, so about 500kts in ISA
Assuming 490kts avg ground speed, about 17hrs30mins
9,000 hrs/14 yrs on type
M0.90/520kts
Quick answers so my best guesstimates. Sounds like a fun project. I have manuals and planning info available. If you would like more detailed information, PM me.
Yes, I think so but it could be tight! Hopefully your aircraft will have the Stab Tank fitted
Long-Range Cruise is M0.85, so about 500kts in ISA
Assuming 490kts avg ground speed, about 17hrs30mins
9,000 hrs/14 yrs on type
M0.90/520kts
Quick answers so my best guesstimates. Sounds like a fun project. I have manuals and planning info available. If you would like more detailed information, PM me.
Thank you very much for the info. That confirms it is possible so now to find a charter company/airline who may want to lend me their aeroplane!
Cheers
CB
Not sure how many 744s Air Atlanta have, but they've currently got one chartered out with Iron Maiden, looks pretty slick and they even let Bruce Dickinson fly the thing.
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Something odd about this. Wants an aircraft large enough to be a billboard, has a very tight arrival time, won't have to deal with immigration. Care to enlighten us?
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Cheers
CB
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I'm pretty sure EK operated a non-stop 777 Freighter (essentially a -200LR) from Sydney to a New York area airfield a few years ago. Perhaps that's where you should be looking. LRC around M0.84.
With some help from my manuals, a more accurate answer:
All weights in kgx1000
Aircraft: B.747-400
Engines: RR RB.211-524G
DOW: 184.0 (assuming 4 pilots and 10 cabin crew)
Load: 6.0
ZFW: 190.0
Ramp Fuel: 174.0
Ramp Wt: 364.0
Start/Taxi: 2.0
TOW: 362.0
Great Circle Distance BNE-JFK: 8,374nm
Assumed total Ground Distance: 8,500nm
In ISA and still air:
Flight Time: 17+40
Total Fuel used: 172.0
Fuel remaining
after landing: 2.0
IN OTHER WORDS; NOT VIABLE
In ISA and 25kt tailwind component:
Flight Time: 16+50
Total Fuel used: 164.5
Fuel remaining
after landing: 9.5
IN OTHER WORDS; 'NORMAL RESERVES'
A 25kt tailwind component seems reasonable but I am not familiar with the Pacific area, so you will need to check with a professional planner regarding expected ISA deviation and wind, as well as the realistic flight-planned ground distance.
You will also need the aircraft provider to confirm whether or not my DOW, crew figure and total fuel capacity assumptions are reasonable.
The last 2,000nm will be over the USA, thereby providing plenty of alternate airfields during the last 4 hours if there is a fuel shortage at the later stages of the flight.
Note that there is no allowance for 'contingency fuel'. Re-clearance procedures are assumed.
Hope this helps!
All weights in kgx1000
Aircraft: B.747-400
Engines: RR RB.211-524G
DOW: 184.0 (assuming 4 pilots and 10 cabin crew)
Load: 6.0
ZFW: 190.0
Ramp Fuel: 174.0
Ramp Wt: 364.0
Start/Taxi: 2.0
TOW: 362.0
Great Circle Distance BNE-JFK: 8,374nm
Assumed total Ground Distance: 8,500nm
In ISA and still air:
Flight Time: 17+40
Total Fuel used: 172.0
Fuel remaining
after landing: 2.0
IN OTHER WORDS; NOT VIABLE
In ISA and 25kt tailwind component:
Flight Time: 16+50
Total Fuel used: 164.5
Fuel remaining
after landing: 9.5
IN OTHER WORDS; 'NORMAL RESERVES'
A 25kt tailwind component seems reasonable but I am not familiar with the Pacific area, so you will need to check with a professional planner regarding expected ISA deviation and wind, as well as the realistic flight-planned ground distance.
You will also need the aircraft provider to confirm whether or not my DOW, crew figure and total fuel capacity assumptions are reasonable.
The last 2,000nm will be over the USA, thereby providing plenty of alternate airfields during the last 4 hours if there is a fuel shortage at the later stages of the flight.
Note that there is no allowance for 'contingency fuel'. Re-clearance procedures are assumed.
Hope this helps!
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Looks like a load of bollocks to me - who needs to be that time specific coming from Brisbane ? How do you NOT deal with US immigration?? Why only 50 pax +500kg of freight? or why is aircraft speed an issue??? and the aircraft is going to be a "billboard" so will require a paint job as well???
Might be some mad PR stunt - play a game of Aussie Rules in Brisbane and then fly and play one in NY 24 hours later.......... but it all sounds lunatic - or a student.........
cudgelling my brains to think of ANYTHING that would need you to leg it with 49 others all the way from Brisbane to NY and be worried about 30 minutes
Pizza Delivery???
Might be some mad PR stunt - play a game of Aussie Rules in Brisbane and then fly and play one in NY 24 hours later.......... but it all sounds lunatic - or a student.........
cudgelling my brains to think of ANYTHING that would need you to leg it with 49 others all the way from Brisbane to NY and be worried about 30 minutes
Pizza Delivery???
BA flew Blair + entourage from BRU to MEL non stop a few years ago on a 777-200. Looks like the total number of pax was around 100.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...els-to-205768/
QF also flew non stop LHR-SYD with crew on a 747-400.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...els-to-205768/
QF also flew non stop LHR-SYD with crew on a 747-400.
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HH,
Yes, it's had me scratching my head, too.
However .. think of an 'entertainment troupe' and their equipment ..
How one bypasses US immigration, I'd still like to know, though.
eckhard .. Thanks for your trouble coming up with those figures. - Us lazy b@sterds are indebted to you.
Yes, it's had me scratching my head, too.
However .. think of an 'entertainment troupe' and their equipment ..
How one bypasses US immigration, I'd still like to know, though.
eckhard .. Thanks for your trouble coming up with those figures. - Us lazy b@sterds are indebted to you.
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With some help from my manuals, a more accurate answer:
All weights in kgx1000
Aircraft: B.747-400
Engines: RR RB.211-524G
DOW: 184.0 (assuming 4 pilots and 10 cabin crew)
Load: 6.0
ZFW: 190.0
Ramp Fuel: 174.0
Ramp Wt: 364.0
Start/Taxi: 2.0
TOW: 362.0
Great Circle Distance BNE-JFK: 8,374nm
Assumed total Ground Distance: 8,500nm
In ISA and still air:
Flight Time: 17+40
Total Fuel used: 172.0
Fuel remaining
after landing: 2.0
IN OTHER WORDS; NOT VIABLE
In ISA and 25kt tailwind component:
Flight Time: 16+50
Total Fuel used: 164.5
Fuel remaining
after landing: 9.5
IN OTHER WORDS; 'NORMAL RESERVES'
A 25kt tailwind component seems reasonable but I am not familiar with the Pacific area, so you will need to check with a professional planner regarding expected ISA deviation and wind, as well as the realistic flight-planned ground distance.
You will also need the aircraft provider to confirm whether or not my DOW, crew figure and total fuel capacity assumptions are reasonable.
The last 2,000nm will be over the USA, thereby providing plenty of alternate airfields during the last 4 hours if there is a fuel shortage at the later stages of the flight.
Note that there is no allowance for 'contingency fuel'. Re-clearance procedures are assumed.
Hope this helps!
All weights in kgx1000
Aircraft: B.747-400
Engines: RR RB.211-524G
DOW: 184.0 (assuming 4 pilots and 10 cabin crew)
Load: 6.0
ZFW: 190.0
Ramp Fuel: 174.0
Ramp Wt: 364.0
Start/Taxi: 2.0
TOW: 362.0
Great Circle Distance BNE-JFK: 8,374nm
Assumed total Ground Distance: 8,500nm
In ISA and still air:
Flight Time: 17+40
Total Fuel used: 172.0
Fuel remaining
after landing: 2.0
IN OTHER WORDS; NOT VIABLE
In ISA and 25kt tailwind component:
Flight Time: 16+50
Total Fuel used: 164.5
Fuel remaining
after landing: 9.5
IN OTHER WORDS; 'NORMAL RESERVES'
A 25kt tailwind component seems reasonable but I am not familiar with the Pacific area, so you will need to check with a professional planner regarding expected ISA deviation and wind, as well as the realistic flight-planned ground distance.
You will also need the aircraft provider to confirm whether or not my DOW, crew figure and total fuel capacity assumptions are reasonable.
The last 2,000nm will be over the USA, thereby providing plenty of alternate airfields during the last 4 hours if there is a fuel shortage at the later stages of the flight.
Note that there is no allowance for 'contingency fuel'. Re-clearance procedures are assumed.
Hope this helps!
Thank you very much for running the numbers. They make for some very interesting figures. It is very much appreciated.
Cheers
CB