Flybe - 8
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I think he's more likely to be referencing the fact they'll be doing <230kts which is obviously slower than a jet doing 250kts. Besides, whilst the Q400's climb performance is good for a prop, it's still not as good as a jet's so of course there will be an impact.
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FL370 Officeboy
The traffic flow management in the lower London TMA and in particular LGW & LHR won't dictate a speed of greater than 220kts. There really will not be an issue. If you've flown the Q400 you will know you can actually do about 243kts below FL80 and the only limiting factor is the windscreen bird strike limit hence that speed. As for climb performance, the Q400 in the lower levels and at the early stages of climb will climb at 3000fpm +. With the level off of instrument departures out of London airports of 3000ft to 6000ft do you really think an extra 1000fpm climb rate is that beneficial? I think there's alot of people on here trying to find a reason to slate the dash going into LHR but really, there's no major issues.
The traffic flow management in the lower London TMA and in particular LGW & LHR won't dictate a speed of greater than 220kts. There really will not be an issue. If you've flown the Q400 you will know you can actually do about 243kts below FL80 and the only limiting factor is the windscreen bird strike limit hence that speed. As for climb performance, the Q400 in the lower levels and at the early stages of climb will climb at 3000fpm +. With the level off of instrument departures out of London airports of 3000ft to 6000ft do you really think an extra 1000fpm climb rate is that beneficial? I think there's alot of people on here trying to find a reason to slate the dash going into LHR but really, there's no major issues.
Last edited by Reversethrustset; 20th Dec 2016 at 22:32.
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Isn't the SOP to limit your speed to VMO-10kts below 8000' (or is it 10)? I doubt it's changed. So that'll be 235kts.
It ain't just about climb rate but just being slow. What about getting in the way above 3 or 6000'? How fast is your extensively calculated climb and cruise speed? 200 odd knots isn't it? If you actually follow the correct climb procedure you're down to about 165kts at FL250.
I have flown the Dash and I know how slow it is in reality.
P.s. It's more than just a windscreen limit. Have a look for the Q400 vs. Eagle incident where the bird smashed through the wing root and caused some pretty major problems.
It ain't just about climb rate but just being slow. What about getting in the way above 3 or 6000'? How fast is your extensively calculated climb and cruise speed? 200 odd knots isn't it? If you actually follow the correct climb procedure you're down to about 165kts at FL250.
I have flown the Dash and I know how slow it is in reality.
P.s. It's more than just a windscreen limit. Have a look for the Q400 vs. Eagle incident where the bird smashed through the wing root and caused some pretty major problems.
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Yep, that is the SOP, I said it can do 243kts which is factually correct, whether we'll be allowed to do something close to that or not flying out of LHR remains to be seen. Either way 235kts will still fit within flow management within the lower London TMA, please don't make me go through the STAR charts to show you 220kts, and remember it can do 275kts above FL100 if needed.
To be honest Chesty who cares about it being slow above 6000ft? By then you are away from LHR and talking to London Control, you already know that we've been flying in the London TMA for years with no issues, this is specifically talking about LHR operations.
The SOP is to climb at 210kts, but it'll happily climb at 250 if you wanted it to, and no the correct climb profile will not have you down to 165kts at FL250, I think the fact that you moved North for the Embraer a fairly long time ago means the way it climbs in the higher levels has become a bit woolly. 165kts is way below the clean minimum manoeuvre speed. End of the day we're discussing semantics that isn't really relevant, the dash has flown into LGW for years with no issues, I don't see LHR being any different, that's provided our captains don't decide to fly a flap 35 approach into there just because they "can"
I'll check out that incident, thanks.
To be honest Chesty who cares about it being slow above 6000ft? By then you are away from LHR and talking to London Control, you already know that we've been flying in the London TMA for years with no issues, this is specifically talking about LHR operations.
The SOP is to climb at 210kts, but it'll happily climb at 250 if you wanted it to, and no the correct climb profile will not have you down to 165kts at FL250, I think the fact that you moved North for the Embraer a fairly long time ago means the way it climbs in the higher levels has become a bit woolly. 165kts is way below the clean minimum manoeuvre speed. End of the day we're discussing semantics that isn't really relevant, the dash has flown into LGW for years with no issues, I don't see LHR being any different, that's provided our captains don't decide to fly a flap 35 approach into there just because they "can"
I'll check out that incident, thanks.
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All names taken
These are not new slots rather the remedy slots made available through BA when the Virgin Little Red experiment flying domestically from LHR to both ABZ and EDI ceased.
These are not new slots rather the remedy slots made available through BA when the Virgin Little Red experiment flying domestically from LHR to both ABZ and EDI ceased.
They are still spare peak time slots though.
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See BA have reverted to their old tactic of slashing fares on the routes already. A few random bookings in April from ABZ and BA have lots of dates from £78.00 rtn . FLYBE cheapest £109.00 rtn.
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Type 3 was 160kts to FL250.
Of course, you can make it go faster than that but then you lose your climb rate and increase your fuel burn.
I don't know which min clean speed you're referring to (I guess the company imposed one) but Bombardier would be pretty daft to use a climb profile that reduces below it. Vfto is actually min clean speed and at 27tonnes it's 152kts.
Then a 200kt cruise and descent.
I'll tell you who cares - the people who need to stream all of the traffic inbound and vector you out the way of out bounds.
I think the fact that you moved North for the Embraer a fairly long time ago means the way it climbs in the higher levels has become a bit woolly.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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IF it means a consistent & reliable Heathrow service for the Channel Islands.
But it won't - they can't use these potential remedy slots (if awarded) to anywhere other than those points mentioned in my previous post for at least 6 slot seasons !
Jersey would have to wait a least another 3 years or more probably never using these slots.
Your best hope remains BA taking up the gauntlet to the bailiwick as some point.
IF it means a consistent & reliable Heathrow service for the Channel Islands.
But it won't - they can't use these potential remedy slots (if awarded) to anywhere other than those points mentioned in my previous post for at least 6 slot seasons !
Jersey would have to wait a least another 3 years or more probably never using these slots.
Your best hope remains BA taking up the gauntlet to the bailiwick as some point.
What happens to the other 5 remedy slots once BE starts using 7 of them?
Doesn't all this lapse if/when we leave the EU?
For example, it might be decided that connectivity is more important than competition, is it possible that BE could use the 12 remedy slots for new routes rather than duplication of existing ones?
Doesn't the 3 year period start when VS started on the routes?
Where can Flybe really make money with an E195 from Heathrow ?
Seating plans indicate a Dash to be used on both routes.
Quote:
means that S-bound flights take 20 minutes longer than N-bound
Sensible scheduling in my opinion - having operated there for nearly 30 years you need to allow for the inevitable "Take up the hold at Bovindon - delay 15 to 20 mins".........
means that S-bound flights take 20 minutes longer than N-bound
Sensible scheduling in my opinion - having operated there for nearly 30 years you need to allow for the inevitable "Take up the hold at Bovindon - delay 15 to 20 mins".........
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 21st Dec 2016 at 23:09.
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STN is only now served by loganair as flybe so once the franchise ends so will flybe at STN. Looks like NQY has been dropped as it currently stands which is very surprising. It might be still to be announced or it could be the route will be transferred back to SEN or to LCY.
Either way I would be surprised if BE don't operate to another London airport on top of LGW to NQY.
cs
Either way I would be surprised if BE don't operate to another London airport on top of LGW to NQY.
cs