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Old 14th Jun 2017, 17:23
  #7961 (permalink)  
 
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Is the lack of parking spaces newsworthy, especially on TV, that's the question.

Plenty of other places (not talking just airports here) run out of spaces, but they dont feature on the news.

It's not a great situation to be greeted with, and maybe a few days warning could have been given if possible (EI, on social media highlight that car parks are close to capacity so may want to find other means to get to the airport.)

Also, wasn't aware there were that many people turning up on the day to park, I thought it was a thing most people would pre book?
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 18:05
  #7962 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LAX_LHR
Is the lack of parking spaces newsworthy, especially on TV, that's the question.

Plenty of other places (not talking just airports here) run out of spaces, but they dont feature on the news.

It's not a great situation to be greeted with, and maybe a few days warning could have been given if possible (EI, on social media highlight that car parks are close to capacity so may want to find other means to get to the airport.)

Also, wasn't aware there were that many people turning up on the day to park, I thought it was a thing most people would pre book?
It becomes newsworthy because keyboard warriors post stuff on the usual social media sites and lazy journalists pick it up. It makes their job dead easy because all they have to do its take screen shots of the various postings and make mountains out of molehills!

I never used to pre-book car parking, until airports, particularly MAG airports, made it prohibitively expensive to turn up and park. Now, unless you're made of money and can afford the business / express or whatever other fancy marketing name airports use, you have little choice but to pre-book.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 19:10
  #7963 (permalink)  
 
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If only there was a quick easy way to pick people up, instead of being forced into car parks for a very short stay.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 21:47
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The messages seem confusing too. Is it long stay, short stay or both? Given that you have to use short stay (including the MSCPs) to pick up passengers, how on earth will this situation be managed once peak season starts?
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 22:41
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Originally Posted by LAX_LHR
Is the lack of parking spaces newsworthy, especially on TV, that's the question.

Plenty of other places (not talking just airports here) run out of spaces, but they dont feature on the news.

It's not a great situation to be greeted with, and maybe a few days warning could have been given if possible (EI, on social media highlight that car parks are close to capacity so may want to find other means to get to the airport.)

Also, wasn't aware there were that many people turning up on the day to park, I thought it was a thing most people would pre book?
Pre-booking doesn't alter whether or not there is adequate provision. MAN know full well how many passengers will be transiting the terminals on any given day, and how many will arrive by car.

They either provided enough parking spaces or they didn't.

This is basic management 101.

An airport only needs to do two things. Get people in and out. Get aircraft in and out.

Anything else is secondary.

Providing capacity for people to arrive and depart is a basic function of an airport.

If this airport is incapable of providing one half of its basic function effectively, people should know about it.

Of course it's newsworthy.

Last edited by pilot9249; 15th Jun 2017 at 01:00.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 01:29
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And just exactly how do MAN know how many people will be arriving by car on any given day? Whenever I've booked a flight ticket, I've certainly not been required by the airline to state how I will be arriving at the airport?

The people who have pre booked a space are covered, this affects the turn up on the day crowd.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 02:13
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No doubt MAC have records going back many years for their car park usage and the numbers of tickets issued by the machines each day, so it should not be too difficult for them to predict the daily demand. It seems to me, like a lot of things at the airport, there is little forward planning taking place - they are always playing catch-up rather than being ahead of their game.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 02:24
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Originally Posted by LAX_LHR
And just exactly how do MAN know how many people will be arriving by car on any given day? Whenever I've booked a flight ticket, I've certainly not been required by the airline to state how I will be arriving at the airport?
I find it difficult to understand why anyone would ask that question.

The airport know exactly how many people are on every flight. They have to, in order to invoice the airline for handling them.

They know exactly how many cars arrive or leave at every minute of every day. A ticket is always used.

They have at least a decade of history to look at.

It is beyond question that the airport have this data and can use it to model parking demand.

Last edited by pilot9249; 15th Jun 2017 at 02:36.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 02:42
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I'm well aware that the airport will know how many pax they will have, but how many of those pax are in cars is a harder one to forecast.

It could be that a pax who used a train last year preferred to use a car this year, or someone who got a taxi last year but wanted to drive this year, and so on.

End of the day, forecasts can only do so much. Car parking is a huge revenue earner, do you not think they would want to maximise that rather than deliberately sell themselves short, as is being implied?
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 04:56
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Having caused some debate by calling T3 security "horrendous" last Tuesday afternoon after a 30 minute delay, I thought I would post on my other security experiences since then. LHR T5 : through security twice and less than 5 minutes on both occasions, VLC just 3 minutes and HKG this morning just 2 minutes. Queues moving quickly and sufficient security lanes open to handle passengers. Sorry, Manchester T3 security was grossly understaffed on Tuesday last week and that is solely down to MAG who employ the security staff. I am through KUL, BKI, TPE and ICN in the next 10 days and I am confident that none of those will repeat my experience of MAN.

Incidentally, I don't believe that MAN are any more security conscious than other airports - in fact HKG insisted in inspecting my compact stapler recently, whilst LHR ran an explosive test on my toiletries, both of which were of no interest to the guys at MAN.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 07:25
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Layout helps the mentality IMHO.
MAN T2 and T3 are hardly intuitive to use adding to stress levels, EDI has an equally barmy layout, whereas, in my view, GLA got it right. Huge new security hall, open space, good light and linear view of where you're going. Drives a good mindset for the experience.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 07:38
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Returning from Lisbon last Saturday afternoon, slightly delayed TAP flight. Arriving at T1. Through security and receiving luggage within 20 minutes.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 08:33
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Having caused some debate by calling T3 security "horrendous" last Tuesday afternoon after a 30 minute delay
Have you not heard that a substantial number of people died in recent terrorist attacks and you are complaining about a 30 minute wait. It is assumed you did not miss your flight so what is your problem. Come on man get real.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 09:41
  #7974 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FFHKG
Having caused some debate by calling T3 security "horrendous" last Tuesday afternoon after a 30 minute delay, I thought I would post on my other security experiences since then. LHR T5 : through security twice and less than 5 minutes on both occasions, VLC just 3 minutes and HKG this morning just 2 minutes. Queues moving quickly and sufficient security lanes open to handle passengers. Sorry, Manchester T3 security was grossly understaffed on Tuesday last week and that is solely down to MAG who employ the security staff. I am through KUL, BKI, TPE and ICN in the next 10 days and I am confident that none of those will repeat my experience of MAN.

Incidentally, I don't believe that MAN are any more security conscious than other airports - in fact HKG insisted in inspecting my compact stapler recently, whilst LHR ran an explosive test on my toiletries, both of which were of no interest to the guys at MAN.
All of which says basically nothing. I have had 40 min queues at LHR T5 before. Without having seen the image of your bags it is impossible to determine why any security officer chose to/not to send it for further screening. Most airports have a policy that 'random' bags will also be selected for certain types of further screening, e.g. explosive testing. In fact some systems do it entirely automatically.

That being said T3 can be a disaster, the current screening area is really wedged in. MAG seem to get staffing levels wrong on a fair number of occasions. Manchester's biggest issue with security is that it has all been retrofitted into existing terminal floor plates. Most of these terminals hark back to an era when fewer people travelled and carried less into the cabin. Most airports that I have been to that date from this era have issues with security screening especially at peak times. At off peak times most airports I have been through your time in screening is entirely the time it takes you to process through.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 11:58
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Originally Posted by TSR2
Have you not heard that a substantial number of people died in recent terrorist attacks and you are complaining about a 30 minute wait. It is assumed you did not miss your flight so what is your problem. Come on man get real.

The problem is that MAN competes with other airports and these queues put people off. Of course MAN is growing quickly which is great but how many of MAN's passengers would jump at the chance to use other regional airports if they could avoid MAN's long security queues, packed terminals and poor bars, restaurants and shops?
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 12:15
  #7976 (permalink)  
 
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FFHKG,

I notice you are comparing MAN T3 to the following airports as a comparisons:

LHR T5:

A new build terminal, purpose built for the needs it is serving today, where its sole users are BA and the occasional IB flights.

Now, aside from the fact the security area was purpose built to handle the volume of passengers it does, You are ommitting one big variable. BA is a full service airline where the vast majority of passengers have checked baggage included. This means much less crap in their hand luggage.

T3's main tenant, and indeed is MAN's biggest tenant is Ryanair. The airline where bags are 'optional extras' to which people do not want to pay to use. This means the pack their whole f*%king world into their hand luggage. Kettles, Irons, large liquids, hair straighteners etc. 2 days ago through T3, lane 5, I saw an African gentleman with a huge car wing mirror with integral lights in his hand luggage (and no, I am not joking in the slightest!). I can guarantee you now after 300+ visits to both airports, Heathrow T5 does not experience the same hand luggage issues as MAN T3. It's absalutely pointless comparing the 2, you couldn't get 2 more polar opposite passenger profiles of you tried. When you have a flight that leaves around the same time that the 10 based Ryanair and 4 away based flights go off together, then quite frankly, 30 minutes is f*%king incredible considering. It wouldn't matter how much staff you throw at the situation, it wouldn't stop people's randomness and stupidity,

You also compare MAN against VLC, which is an airport well less than half the size of MAN, so, I would expect to get through there faster by economy of scale.

Then to ICN/HKG/KUL etc. These are worlds away from any UK airport by design and scale, so again, it's pointless to compare. They have much more resource to throw at airport function than the UK does, so, I would be gravely concerned if they had major issues with queues.

Now, you can call this jumping at MAN's defence for 'mediocre service', but, unless you look at the bigger picture and look at it subjectively, it's hard to judge confidently. If that makes me a 'blind MAN fan' then so be it. I too have travelled very extensively around the world, and while I agree MAN has its shortcomings and far from perfect, it's certainly not one of the worst in the world, not by a very very long shot. If people do think MAN is one of the worst, then all I can say is they have had some very sheltered travels.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 12:30
  #7977 (permalink)  
 
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Facts

Can I suggest that post no1 is highly relevant i.e. Stick to facts and you can't go wrong.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 12:53
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Originally Posted by LAX_LHR
I'm well aware that the airport will know how many pax they will have, but how many of those pax are in cars is a harder one to forecast.
This isn't the place for a crash course in statistics, but from a modelling perspective it really shouldn't matter very much how many people are in each car. Any volatility in this number isn't going to differ markedly from that which is already observable in the historical series.

I think the most likely explanation is that they were able to predict this problem with a pretty good degree of accuracy, and chose to prioritise a financial decision over an operational one.

I think this is newsworthy and I hope it bites them gently in the rear.

Last edited by pilot9249; 15th Jun 2017 at 23:26.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 13:33
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Someone earlier on suggested that you're able to pick passengers up by not using short stay, which of course you are.

However, there's still a hell of a lot of private hire/chauffeur services who use short stay and greet their passengers in the terminal - afterall, this is what the passenger pays for.

Now MAN faces enormous queues at the pickup/dropoff points outside each terminal, all multi story car parks full, and all long stay car parks full with the overflow going into staff car parks, which are now also full....

Just where do these hundreds of private hire/chauffeur/individual cars wait for their passengers?
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 15:16
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I have to pick people up from T3, given the MSCPs are full - I have asked MAG where I should go to collect pax. Their instruction is to follow staff directions - presumably this means driving around the Terminal until a staff member can be found and then proceed to where they say- surely that's a pretty shambolic situation that will cause unbelievable congestion if hundreds of people are doing the same thing ?
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