MANCHESTER 1

[MANFOD]

Skip, I can't answer your question about those wonderful chandeliers that once adorned T1, but you make a fair point about Gatwick. Good post.

Do you happen to know how much GIP have invested in improving LGW?

[lplsprog]

One of the chandeliers is in the Glass Museum in St.Helens

[CCGE29]

Do you happen to know how much GIP have invested in improving LGW?

£1bn. And Gatwick certainly looks better than MAN's proposed re-development.

[CCGE29]

[CCGE29]

On site on Monday. There were two trucks and one what looked like a front loader.

[MANFOD]

£1bn. And Gatwick certainly looks better than MAN's proposed re-development.

I don't know whether that is an actual or budgeted figure for LGW or a rounded headline amount. MAN's £1 billion project I believe is actually £850,000 plus contingencies but perhaps someone could confirm.

So perhaps the early renders represented a vision of what MAG wanted before the professionals who match aspirations with the realities of a limited budget became directly involved.

I think that is highly likely. Being devil's advocate though, I wonder how much extra finance would have been required to match the aspiration, and bearing in mind it was regarded as a 10 year project, whether that extra funding would be considered reasonable and justifiable for a group the size of MAG?

[LAX_LHR]

Seems Delta/virgin are still playing about with their April flights.

Seems a few anomalies in the system such as no DL ATL-MAN bookable on Thursdays but then the MAN-ATL is bookable for the return. Sunday's that the DL B777 operates also sees the departure moved from 1015 to 1325 for what seems no real reason as the aircraft arrives at 0820 just like the other 2 days for the 1015 departure.

Also seems a lot of dates in April that VS doesn't operate any MCO at all, which considering its around the time of half terms, is slightly odd?

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Originally Posted by Tears of the Moon

I think we need to very honestly address the question of whether MAN's overwhelmingly budget-conscious portfolio of airline customers would be willing to pay extra for what they would perceive as extravagance serving vanity rather than functionality. And whether the passengers who pay low charges to fly through MAN today would be willing to pay extra for a slightly more upmarket airport experience. Or would many of them instead gravitate towards nearby competing airports for an immediate £5 saving on their headline fare? Price is king?

I don't think the methodology of the airlines paying (or passing off the cost in the form of higher fares) is the right approach. In any case, airport fees make up a very small percentage of the overall price paid by the consumer.

If most of MANs revenue comes from car parking and retail concessions (ie directly from passengers) surely that is the key factor?

I don't know what the answer to the finance question is, but the fees paid by airline customers cannot be the entire picture.

[MANFOD]

Also seems a lot of dates in April that VS doesn't operate any MCO at all, which considering its around the time of half terms, is slightly odd

Wasn't it suggested that Virgin had crewing problems which was the reason for the DL B772s on ATL. If that is the case, perhaps it's affecting Virgin's B747 operations as well.

[roverman]

MAG's income sources

Income from the core activity (charging airlines for their aircraft using the runways and passengers through the terminals) still accounts for nearly 50% of revenues. These figures are for MAG overall in FY2016 but proportionately representative of the MAN scenario:

Total Revenue £778.8M made up of Aviation £387.4M, Retail £143.8M, Car Parking £137.6, Property £47.5M, Other £62.5M

http://www.magworld.co.uk/magweb.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/MAHL+Annual+Report+-+year+ended+31st+March+206.pdf/$FILE/MAHL+Annual+Report+-+year+ended+31st+March+206.pdf

[Dobbo_Dobbo]

Cheers Roverman - that's set the record straight!

Point re airline charges very much more front and centre to financing the TP than I thought.

[1mach]

In 2009 I paid a 10€ surcharge to fly out of Knock Airport. They said it was a compulsary contribution for the future development of the airport!

[Skipness One Echo]

Shed-on-pole, given MAN has proportionally more legacy short haul, legacy long haul AND massively more ME3 by proportion than easyJet *dominated* Gatwick, not sure blaming price conscious consumers cuts it with me. It's not as if operators will decamp enmasse to LPL or LBA, I'd bet existing airline customers would pay more and pass it on to their passengers. Look at Toronto Pearson, one of the world's most expensive airports BUT has new facilities, good fares, a host of Westjet and Air Transat offering loco. Did they all decamp to "Toronto"-Hamilton? Er no. A slow down in growth may well occur, not the worst thing when you're playing catchup on infrastructure.


Btw is the Virgin ATL issue not the late refitting of the Upper Class Dream Suite which means they're an A330 shy?

[roverman]

There may be a different business model at play here between MAG and GIP. I wonder if GIP are looking to fatten up their assets for sale at a profit whereas MAG's shareholders (still a majority of local authorities) may be looking for on-going income from dividends. Neither party states their aim in this respect but looking at trends this may be a notable difference.

[Logohu]

I don't think anybody here is expecting an "iconic marble palace". Just something that befits an airport already in Europe's top 20, and apparently with ambitions to go much higher. Maybe the new TP will achieve that, time will tell - and yes it is a balancing act between catering for all newcomers whilst not scaring away what you already have with high charges. I do however still have difficulty reconciling statements from different sources referring to the TP as "broadly capacity neutral", and on the other hand "another 10m passengers over the next 10 years, and 55m by 2050".

For the record LGW's EK offering and pax throughput at LGW is currently very similar to MAN's with 3x daily whales - the 4th daily LGW didn't last long (not sure if it even started). The bulk of the BA & VS operation at LGW is leisure based, and it doesn't yet have service from the likes of SQ, QR, EY, UA, AA, WY, SV and some of the European so-called legacies.

[Wycombe]

the 4th daily LGW didn't last long (not sure if it even started)

Can confirm it didn't start, I was due to fly on it a few days after launch date and got moved to the EK9/10 rotation.

[GavinC]

https://youtu.be/elxyIqDhxAE

[Skipness One Echo]

Are you sure you aren't talking down LGW because you're an incorrigible cheerleader for LHR?

No I fly from Gatters as often as I use LHR. LGW is great at what it does, leisure focused and p2p, it's a huge asset in that space.
LHR was woeful for years, decaying terminals, end of life structures and basically coming apartt at the seams. Then a lot of money was spent to undertake a strategic rebuild to make the airfield and terminals fit for a 21st century audience.

MAN is now in the same place LHR was, infrastructure lagging well behind with bespoke bolt ons versus strategic decisions made to drive sustainable change. Multi terminal operations with alliances split (not a huge issue tbh) and some building being used for traffic for which they were never intended, T3 is a clear example.

[Betablockeruk]

Norwegian TATL plan is in the open. DUB, SNN, ORK, EDI and BFS but no English routes. I guess the 'other UK' turned out to be BFS.

Serving SWF, PVD and BDL. I guess they're on the Amtrack to NY and Boston!

Hey ho! MAN-LAX was just a pipe dream (that would have saved me a fortune). Even better if they'd gone for Ontario (ONT) as a cheap LA option.

[LAX_LHR]

MAN-LAX is just as cheap on the TCX direct flight as any Norwegian fare, as for Norwegian, it's a shame, sure, but just shows what a little government money/help can get you!