Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

MANCHESTER 1

Old 26th Oct 2016, 06:55
  #6361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Qwerty
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
After the terminal development has been completed it will be a ton of taxi fuel instead of 600kg as the queue to cross 23R and at the 23L threshold will be even longer at 7am in the morning.

Manchester made a big error when the 2nd runway was built to close for true dual use operations. But that is so typical of the UK, transport development is so often half hearted and does not look far enough into the future. The 3rd Runway at Heathrow needs better transport links if it is to serve a large part of the Country, not only road's but HS2 needs to call at the airport and connect with HS1 at St Pancras/Kings Cross giving access to the Midlands and East of England as well as a direct link for trains from Reading and the West to call on the way into the Paddington.

But Manchester is no better, some of the express trains from Crewe and further South should be diverted to serve the airport as well, along with a link to North Wales.

Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately this Country is London biased. If we live outside of the South East then we are 2nd class citizens but at least the illegal immigrants do not know of nor wish to come to the Midland shires.

British Airways are also equally London biased, in Germany Lufthansa operate long hall from both Frankfurt and Munich. BA could have developed longhaul from Manchester in the 90's/00's but they lacked real foresight and retreated to Heathrow instead.

Last edited by Council Van; 26th Oct 2016 at 07:55.
Council Van is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 07:23
  #6362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 58
Posts: 894
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Council Van
Manchester made a big error when the 2nd runway was built to close for true dual use operations. But that is so typical of the UK, transport development is so often half hearted and does not look far enough into the future.
If you have a look at a map you can see exactly why the second runway was built where it was. Any further away from the first runway and the cost would have quadrupled. The ground falls away, and instead of bridging the River Bollin once, they would have to build over half the runway on top of it. The only other alternative may have been to move the threshold a mile to the southwest and head out that way, but then the taxi times would triple, and the Knutsford swerve on departure would have become quite spectacular!!
Curious Pax is online now  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 07:30
  #6363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just a stir the pot, MAN could now apply to build a 3rd runway (purely take off) parallel to the M56 similar to the southern take off runway at FRA. It could be sold on the fact of less properties to knock down, less noise polution to the residents of Knutsford etc and alleviate the crossing of 23R at peak times
MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 08:11
  #6364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Andy Burnham is a candidate for the Mayor of Manchester, and a Labour one at that, so I wouldn't expect him to say anything else.
As far as MAG is concerned I suspect they are quietly pleased that the Government has opted for the most undeliverable proposal of all. The pollies and lawyers will still be arguing the toss about LHR R3 long after MAN's terminal redevelopments have been completed.
Mayoral candidate he is, but at least he has spoken out, and raised the issue about transport infrastructure spend in the North both in the press and in questions to Grayling in the Commons. Have to say, Grayling's response did not impress me, nor did his answer to a question about the role of regional airports with spare capacity. It was an opportunity for him to at least acknowledge and stress the importance of regional airports but as the question was from the opposition there was just a curt comment that it was up to those airports to sell themselves to the world. His only reference to the regional airports was connectivity to LHR. Of course, he was selling R3 as a national benefit so what have us Northerners got to moan about??!

It would be surprising if there were not plenty of legal delays but I wouldn't put my money on R3 never happening. What the impact on MAN, if any, would then be is not clear, but in the meantime it's up to MAN to strive to continue the momentum of growth in services while at the same time ensuring infrastructure improvements provide a reasonable passenger experience until the TP is complete.

Last edited by MANFOD; 26th Oct 2016 at 08:48. Reason: phrase missed
MANFOD is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 09:14
  #6365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 377
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
True but maybe other MPSs and Media should have spoken up as well rather than giving the S EAST a free run.
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately many of them were too easily seduced by the HAL spin about domestic connectivity, which just goes to prove that your average MP should never be allowed out of the house except under strict supervision. But that's already been debated ad nauseum on other threads....
Logohu is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 10:13
  #6366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 64
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Grayling is riding up North on his white stallion today and will be out seducing the local media with promises of mega spend in the North or ringfenced slots for Heathrow. ..

"Whisper it, they already have them, 20 odd high fequency
flights already in place to Manchester Leeds Newcastle.
The airports that don't have them don't need them.


Liverpool passengers are 35m mins from Manchester.
Humberside use Amsterdam
Teeside see above

The North needs spend TODAY not some transparent #### about Hs2 and a mega spend 30 years over the horizon!

Oh and don't let them disguise normal annual budget maintenance as some sort of "special spend treatment " they are doing this on M4 !

Last edited by Navpi; 26th Oct 2016 at 10:39.
Navpi is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 10:44
  #6367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Grayling is riding up North on his white stallion today and will be out seducing the local media with promises of mega spend in the North or ring-fenced slots for Heathrow.
Plodding donkey might be more appropriate to match infrastructure spend in the North.

Do we know if his tour takes in Manchester or is he more interested in proclaiming those ring-fenced runway slots at the 3 airports you mention?

This was his message back in August:-

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....yling-11711914

As regards the airport, it would be rather appropriate in the immediate aftermath of the LHR decision, if Air China would officially announce MAN-PVG. Is it any closer?

Last edited by MANFOD; 26th Oct 2016 at 10:56.
MANFOD is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 12:42
  #6368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If we live outside of the South East then we are 2nd class citizens but at least the illegal immigrants do not know of nor wish to come to the Midland shires.

British Airways are also equally London biased, in Germany Lufthansa operate long hall from both Frankfurt and Munich. BA could have developed longhaul from Manchester in the 90's/00's but they lacked real foresight and retreated to Heathrow instead.
Not sure it has much to do with foresight. The MUC/FRA arguement doesn't stack up as MUC is way further away and the German economy is much more spread out geographically, not so much skewed into one area. Airlines serve markets, by and large they don't generate them. BA retreated to LHR because it was the only place BA as acompany could make money at an acceptable level. The LGW hub was a failure year after year, losses were immense due to duplication of short haul feed across LHR/LGW and the loss of global feed as some long haul was split across LHR and LGW.
As for MAN, losses on regional short haul were eye-watering once EZY and FR came along and did the same job for way less, regional flying went loco. That would have left MAN with standalone long haul with no feed competing with US carriers and ME3 who have major hubs at the other end. VERY hard to make money.

If MAN was more like MUC, then fair point, alas it's wayyy to close to the SE for that analogy to work sadly. Believe me, it's not like BA then BMI didn't try. VS succeed, perhaps because they have lower costs and are much more leisure focused. Whether BA could replicate the success VS have with DL on their JV with AA, I suspect that boat has sailed.
Skipness One Echo is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 13:32
  #6369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FRA to MUC is only a 2hr 45min drive down the A3-A9 Autobahns with the cities of Würzburg, Nürnberg and Ingolstadt inbetween, less time than it takes driving LHR to MAN. Stuttgart is a similar distance between FRA and MUC.

Frankfurt is a banking and services hub similar to London, Munich is more industrial and similar to the surrounding area of Manchester. LH can make 2 hubs work, why can't BA?
MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 14:42
  #6370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: manchester/berlin
Age: 61
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Heathrow and Manchester

Simple answer is the UK is SE centric. Heathrow in my opinion will never get a third runway it's an environmental health hazard in the making. I would much prefer to fly direct from Manchester if possible or Schiphol.
bayer328 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 15:36
  #6371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If the UK was to adopt a more Germanic approach and de centralise it would sort out many of the problems that plague and split this country.
Trav a la is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 15:43
  #6372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 58
Posts: 949
Received 38 Likes on 22 Posts
Good luck decentralising London.........

Originally Posted by MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA
FRA to MUC is only a 2hr 45min drive down the A3-A9 Autobahns with the cities of Würzburg, Nürnberg and Ingolstadt inbetween.
It's a distance of 250 miles. Good luck doing that in 2hr 45min........
Andy_S is online now  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 16:39
  #6373 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Róisín Dubh
Posts: 1,389
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_S
Good luck decentralising London.........



It's a distance of 250 miles. Good luck doing that in 2hr 45min........
I'd assume it's doable if that particular autobahn route is unrestricted and you boot it.
Una Due Tfc is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 17:18
  #6374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: manchester/berlin
Age: 61
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No 70mph speed limit helps. Seriously If Heathrow actually opens a new runway it's Gatwick, that will suffer immediately. The BA beach fleet will run home to mamma asap Cathay Pacific straight into its preferred airport.Then you have easyjet, who no doubt wish to expand and start flights from Heathrow depending on how the landing fee issues progress. I can't see any legacy carrier operating long term from Gatwick if the Heathrow runway materialised Emirates, would leave asap as it's simply slot sitting and waiting for more LHR openings. BA never really wanted to succeed with Manchester be it using the wrong equipment, timings etc which is a great shame as BA could have been as successful as other airlines that have come in since the retreat of BA to festung LHR.
bayer328 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 17:47
  #6375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
off topic: trains from FRA to MUC need 3:15 hours, by motorway/Autobahn it's nearly 400 km so 3 to 4 hours by car
Seljuk22 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 18:24
  #6376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
2.45 is a reasonable time for the 390km from the junction of the A3/A5 at Frankfurt airport to the Messe at Munich, there are few speed limits below 130, most of the route is derestricted. I will be driving the route in 2 weeks but am limited to 210kmph as I will have my winter tyres fitted LOL
MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 19:58
  #6377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 58
Posts: 949
Received 38 Likes on 22 Posts
Originally Posted by MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA
2.45 is a reasonable time for the 390km from the junction of the A3/A5 at Frankfurt airport to the Messe at Munich, there are few speed limits below 130, most of the route is derestricted.
That's still almost 90 mph.

You may feel that's reasonable, but many wouldn't.
Andy_S is online now  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 21:00
  #6378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm sure how long it takes to drive from Frankfurt to Munich is fascinating for some but can we please get back to topics that affect MAN.
MANFOD is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 21:26
  #6379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern skyport
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It all depends whether you have slicks, mediums or hard tyres........hang on........sorry I am falling asleep re this subject......wake me up when we get back to Man aviation matters.
bar none is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2016, 01:03
  #6380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Manchester
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Trav a la
If the UK was to adopt a more Germanic approach and de centralise it would sort out many of the problems that plague and split this country.
Based on recent attempts you clearly don't want a Germanic approach to airport development (think BER) 😆
Armodeen is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.