MANCHESTER 1

[Logohu]

QR

Qatar look to be increasing to 16 per week from 2 May next year.

Schedules in the GDS show two more morning arrivals/departues using 788

Also confirmed on the QR website booking engine.

Lots of chatter on other forums about QR looking into the possibility of opening up LGW, DUB or BFS, a second Scottish airport (GLA ?), West country (BRS ?) so it is good to see that an increase in flights for MAN is already firmed up for next summer.

[Ringwayman]

Emirates 2 class A380 operating on EK19 on 24th.

[Bagso]

Liverpool School of English supports Heathrow expansion - Taking Britain Further

Interesting link here where in my view the somewhat ill advised Anna Goodband, Principal at the Liverpool School For English suggests how splendid it would be to expand Heathrow.

Notwithstanding the poss £6bn spend on some lovely infastructure down there, investment I dare say Merseyside could benefit from up here, I find the lack of knowledge in respect of recent history and indeed support of Manchester staggering at every level.

Direct Liverpool services to Heathrow stopped at the time due lack of demand. ...

Nothing to do with slot availability !

KLM tried also to connect Liverpool to a major hub, it failed due to lack of demand again not lack of slots!

Has anything changed?

Rather presumptious therefore for HAL to suggest an airline come along and invest their hard earned cash in this route is it not ?

Also a pity that Messrs Goodband and the Liverpool Chamber have swallowed the hype without recourse to actuality.

Whilst I appreciate Manchester and Liverpool are not bosom buddies I'm pretty sure business in Manchester fully SUPPORTS the current expansion of the Port Of Liverpool and the opportunities this will bring rather than having to send freight down to Felixstowe / Southampton.

Even if it sticks in the claw to support Manchester Airport surely to God fairminded Liverpudlians would think twice about supporting a potential £6bn spend on road and rail in the SE "yet again" above and beyond investment in their own area.

Just hold that thought, £6bn for the premise not by an airline but by a third party of the "mere possibility" of a link to Heathrow and this based on a failed track record !

Flimsy is not the word !

(NB The current investment in Port Liverpool is private money think what they could do with a modicum of Government investment )

[MANFOD]

It's disappointing Bagso but all too predictable I'm afraid.

As you say, I hope Manchester is more supportive of the developments at the Port of Liverpool

Coincidentally, just read an article in the M.E.N about the International Festival of Business which includes this:

Speaking of the united front between Manchester and Liverpool Ian said: “There’s always been more that unites us than divides us as cities and economies. While of course there is the traditional rivalries in sport and history what’s good for Manchester is good for Liverpool and vice versa.

“Liverpool’s particular strength at the moment is the extension of the port and I know that business leaders in Manchester really see that as an opportunity to show that tangible trade gateway into the northern region.”

-------------

And MAN as an International Gateway?

[fjencl]

Is Avion Express operating for TCX again for summer 2016

[j636]

Why cant cities support both airports, there is nothing wrong with LPL backing LHR, it does not mean they are against MAN. Its important to have a choice.

Anyway how can MAN become a northen hub when in 10 years time after development we will be hear posting the exact same problems now as managment are only planning for numbers that will be exceeded long before it is completed.

Not overly familler with MAN and land available however from what gets posted here it would appear a completly new airport is required to fulfil what a hub airport required. Where will they grow once 2025 comes?

A couple of diversions says it all, all major airports should and are excluding MAN of course accept 6-8 diversions. Its not much to ask.

[AndyH52]

Bagso, British Midland dropping Liverpool - Heathrow was to enable them to start Heathrow - Brussels at a time they were struggling to secure additional slots. Teesside and Leeds lost their links for similar reasons. KLM carried something like 150k passengers in its last full year of operation on Liverpool - Amsterdam and the decision to suspend the route was taken at the height of the economic crisis. Demand, or lack of it was therefore not the prime reason in either case.

Much has changed since the days of BMA, not least the Liverpool economy, and why you should be so concerned that some of the City's businesses feel connectivity to Heathrow is important for the on going development of the City's economy puzzles me.

[chaps1954]

j636 Perhaps you should get familiar before you come out with comments like that. Once the old pier C has gone and the begining of the extension work
things will change.

Ian

[eggc]

If you look at MAN on Google earth is quite apparent there is ample space around the airfield to grow significantly beyond its current foot print.

Re LPL. It may suit LPL's economy if you look from a purely local point of view, but if you expand that view from local to a regional, then MAN growth would be far better for the entire NW region and economy than the benefits to the region that an enlarged LHR would create.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

managment are only planning for numbers that will be exceeded long before it is completed.

Summer 2016 is looking exceptionally strong for MAN by the standards of recent years. But a big driver of this is $40 - $45bbl oil; less than one-third of the price we saw in very recent memory. This price-level is quite exceptional ... no city analysts saw this coming. We need to enjoy the resultant growth spurt because it will not be sustained indefinitely and we can be sure that oil prices will eventually revert to the mean and then overreact higher. I don't mean to be a killjoy but that is the way commodities markets work. Ten years out we will have seen some good years and some tough ones.

However, if there is a sustained major surprise to the upside, MAN is actually not up the proverbial creek without a paddle. You see, those mothballed plans for the extension of T3 to the East remain on file. They can be resurrected if needed. And that would be new capacity over and above that provided by the TP as it currently stands.

A couple of diversions says it all, all major airports should and are excluding MAN of course accept 6-8 diversions. Its not much to ask.

As you might have noticed, I agree! But the issues here appear to include car parking on the apron, a misguided emphasis on avoiding bad PR, and poor levels of contingency from MAN's fragmented collection of under-resourced handling agencies. I won't upset everyone by repeating my suggestions to resolve this!

[AndyH52]

If you look at MAN on Google earth is quite apparent there is ample space around the airfield to grow significantly beyond its current foot print.

There is the small matter of the green belt and planning control to overcome. As such whilst there is space to expand in the current land use plan, it will require displacement of facilities such as the cargo and maintenance areas.

Re LPL. It may suit LPL's economy if you look from a purely local point of view, but if you expand that view from local to a regional, then MAN growth would be far better for the entire NW region and economy than the benefits to the region that an enlarged LHR would create.

So by extension, taking the national view expanding Heathrow is better for the UK economy as a whole, but that is not an argument subscribed to by most on this thread. You can't have it both ways...

[chaps1954]

Don`t think they need to use any greenbelt land as once as T1 is cleared which doesn`t really fit into the plan nowadays and is not fit for purpose anyway and as has been said extending T3 there will be plenty of room


Ian

[Bagso]

No one is suggesting they shouldn't have a desire to link to Heathrow to Liverpool , I'm simply suggesting that where there is no direct link from Liverpool to a particular City, it might be desirable to give equal emphasis to using Manchester, as indeed they are doing with the prospect of a possible link to Heathrow.

My goodness we are 10 years minimum away from a Heathrow daily and yet Manchester exists now!

By continually stating there is a necessity to connect international destinations almost suggests there are no other options and that business in Liverpool is totally marooned until such time as a third runway in London arrives. Many of those business on the East side of the City are a little over 30 minutes from Manchester !

I do appreciate the quote attributed to Liverpool School of English is 6 months old, but I have seen little to suggest an awareness by say the Liverpool Chamber of the long haul offering now available just up the road.

With reference to the swap of Liverpool to Brussels it simply would not happen if the route was profitable, the same applies to KLM. I am not disputing the service was popular , but popularity and profitability are two different things, again KLM simply would not have cancelled the route if it was making lots of money.

Hopefully FlyBe etc will prove successful for Liverpool with an improvement in the current economic cycle.

Management of stand efficiency at Manchester is I feel a totally a different topic and one which many of us would hope is being addressed.

[160to4DME]

KLM carried something like 150k passengers in its last full year of operation on Liverpool - Amsterdam and the decision to suspend the route was taken at the height of the economic crisis. Demand, or lack of it was therefore not the prime reason in either case.

It was absolutely the prime reason; their was insufficient demand to generate sufficient revenue to sustain a profitable operation. You can harp on about how many people were carried, but it was almost exclusively people down the back on easyJet fares.

You can not blame the "economic crisis." It was not a crisis unique to Liverpool. KLM did not pull Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, hell not even Humberside, but when ever their withdrawal from LPL gets mentioned, we get reminded it was "at the height of the crisis," since when KLM have opened Belfast and have prospered there but flatly refused to return to Speke.

[AndyH52]

You can not blame the "economic crisis

"KLM's UK General Manager Henri Hourcade said: "We launched Liverpool in 2009, at a time of economic uncertainty, when many airlines were reducing their networks - especially out of the regions- and cutting capacity.

"We went against the grain and had encouraging results for the first two years, connecting Liverpool with over 150 destinations around the world.

"However, the continued economic downturn has meant that as a company we have had to make some tough decisions across our global network and unfortunately Liverpool is a casualty of that process."

Source:bbc.co.uk

I suspect that as General Manager, Mr Hourcade should know better than you or I.

KLM didn't pull out of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, hell not even Humberside

What competition did they have on those routes (none or virtually none) and how long had they been operating (more than a couple of years, I would suggest).

Bagso. In terms of non-stop long haul connectivity I wouldn't disagree with you, but there is an issue in terms of inbound traffic and specifically inward investment that the further people have to travel when they get off the plane, the less inclined they are to make the journey. As such the concern for Liverpool is that investors flying in to Manchester will be more inclined to set up in south Manchester rather than south Liverpool.

[LAX_LHR]

Currently a situation ongoing with the Air France A321 that has landed from CDG.

Stopped on the runway and no-one is approaching the aircraft, but, the emergency services are standing by near the aircraft at this time.

[roverman]

LSoE support for Heathrow.

I think Heathrow have really tapped up some people in their campaign. I can understand to a degree why a business might benefit from being well connected globally where time is important and they are moving people and goods around a lot. But a language school? You thrive on your reputation, if it is good enough people will travel to spend presumably some days, weeks or months studying with you. If they are travelling thousands of miles to join a course, then an extra hour by surface from MAN, with or without an en-route connection, is hardly going to sway their choice away from the Liverpool school. Is it? Connections to Liverpool via Heathrow would seem to have no clear advantage, it's still an indirect journey.

[Bagso]

The Inbound element is interesting and could of course include tourists and/or students.

To that end there must be a rich vein to mine in terms of Liverpool with The Beatles, Universities etc.

The popularity of The Beatles remains incredibly high especially in Asia.

And that is the point, by way of example the Hong Kong and new Beijing would I'm sure bring in masses of tourists!

Should Liverpool Chamber not therefore be equally vocal in promoting this major artery of trade ?

[160to4DME]

I suspect that as General Manager, Mr Hourcade should know better than you or I.

Very polite business speak. The same person who promptly went and added to the KLM operation at MAN in both rotations and capacity, and as you will recall, much of the in-trade dissection of the pull-out agreed that critical mass had been achieved by price matching easyJet. Front of cabin demand was not there, yet every other KLM
station in the UK was able to see through the recession and they in fact added a new station yet chose not to return to LPL

[LAX_LHR]

Pegasus have now fully loaded a new scheduled route to Bodrum on their website.

PC5135 BJV 1630 MAN 1900
PC5136 MAN 1940 BJV 0145

Monday's from 30th May.

This is in addition to the Monday/Friday confirmed Dalaman so far.

Means with Istanbul which is still to be loaded (LGW-SAW isn't loaded yet either so still to come), we have at least 3 routes from Pegasus. Potentially a Friday Antalya to come too.