MANCHESTER 1

[Mr A Tis]

Saturated routes

Here we go again, airlines saturating routes- this time AMS & VIE, common sense will tell you nobody will make any money. It happened before with Berlin & Madrid. They all piled in after no services, saturated it, & then all pulled out.
Meanwhile nobody serves Bordeaux, Lyon or Seville.
I despair at some of these route planning people.

[Bagso]

There must be a team at MAN who liaise with the route planning depth.

Do they outline "opportunities " "scoping docs" etc ?

[Mr A Tis]

Yes I bet they have, and come up with 5 x KLM , 3 x EZY & 6 x Flybe to AMS on some days. That gives you 14 chances to connect to Lyon, Bordeaux or Seville. What a waste of resources.
I see Ryanair have gained AMS slots now - please don't tell me they're thinking of using them to MAN.

[Suzeman]

And the only way MAN could get a 2nd runway was to have it positioned as it is so as to minimise the use of greenfield sites and so getting grudgingly approved by Cheshire Council.

Not grudgingly approved by Cheshire East who opposed it but endorsed after a 100 day planning enquiry.

And of course the northern option would have meant a realignment of the M56 junction, made very difficult by the need for sufficient taxiways at the correct levels to connect to the terminal area, the complete demolition of T2 and the cargo area as it would have been in the Public Safety Zone, the exposure of a large new population to aircraft noise, particularly Wythenshawe and the removal of the Girl Guides Camp in Ashley...

And as has been pointed out, the constraint would still be departure routes, so not a really appropriate use of resources. Apart from that Council Van, any other ideas...

If the Airport had chosen anything other than the option that was originally built, it would probably still be a single runway airport as planning permission could not have been realistically obtained for any of the other options.

[easyflyer83]

Route planning takes a while, it's not always a knee jerk reaction and it's likely that any two airlines planning the same route won't know the others plans.

[opnot]

Una Due Tfc

single rwy ops a 6 mile gap is required between arrivals

dual rwy ops a 4mile gap is required between arrivals
Therefore for any given hour you will land more acft on dual rwy ops

There are no wake vortex restrictions between arrivals and departures on dual rwy ops under normal operating conditions

[LAX_LHR]

Hainan have not been successful in gaining route authorities for MAN-PEK from the CAAC , Air China have retained it.

Hainan were successful in gaining MAN-PVG however, and will apparently start next year shared with EDI. 2 weekly from Apr 15th.

[MANFOD]

Thanks for the China update LAX. I guess 2 x weekly jointly with EDI is progress assuming there are no further delays.

Any thoughts as to whether Air China will continue to sit on the rights or might actually take them up?

Good news about Norwegian to SVG also, but like others I share some concern about EZY to Vienna. I assume the Thurs/Sun flights in effect replace Moscow and it's a pity they couldn't find an unserved but viable year-round destination.

Decent result for June with freight also up again. Very busy in T1 check-in this morning but I do wish the airport could manage to have all 3 lifts at Departure level working. The latest to be refurbished was o/s again, (as it was when we arrived back 4 weeks ago although it may have been working in the meantime) causing long queues for the 2 lifts that were operating and I imagine frustration for arriving passengers.

[LAX_LHR]

Ryanair to go 8 weekly on MAN-MAD for selected dates in Dec/Jan. Extra flight on Wednesdays.

[sarah19981]

Lax-lhr

Air China is confirming this on when sending them direct messages via Facebook. They are saying the route is in prospective and start the service using a b777 aircraft

[Bagso]

Hope you are right Lax.

Routes outside of LHR to China would be at a premium and whoever loses may as well kiss them goodbye !

Incidentally the visit of the Chinese delegation appears somewhat mysterious. No references to anybody seeing them, trade talks, presentations, images etc. Nothing.

How do you hide 50 -200 chinese personnel over 24hours!

Another forum suggested they were in talks organised by Osborne!

[LAX_LHR]

I agree it's a little odd that there was no reference whatsoever regarding the trade visit, but, as we know MAG is much better at just getting on with it behind the scenes.

Regarding Hainan, I've posted similar on the EDI thread, but apparently tour operators are able to book seats on the new EDI-MAN-PVG flight. Saga is apparently the main one so far, booking seats for their new China cruise itinerary, but I've not been able to view said seats/itinary thus far.

As for Air China, I'd be sceptical until it's announced, given they have sat on the rights with no usage for years. Plus, a B77W? I don't see it unless a cargo contract is being sought.

[MANFOD]

but apparently tour operators are able to book seats on the new EDI-MAN-PVG flight

Is it confirmed then that the flight is non-stop to and from MAN and turns round at EDI?

As to the silence regarding the visit from the Chinese, I imagine Osborne is very keen to regain some lost credibility in the North after his premature comments about a new air route to China, and then being embarrassed by McLoughlin over rail electrification of Manchester to Leeds and its possible implications for the Northern Powerhouse

[nigel osborne]

Oh no not China again,

Read on here earlier this year that allegedly Hainan had contracts sorted for handling and fuel and were starting MAN imminently to Beijing.. although be be fair it was the Chancellor who started it all off .

Suggest everyone waits. I doubt anything is actually confirmed with Air China Hainan or anyone. So if either turn up next year will be a bonus !.

Meanwhile at BHX the chartered Hainan today was met by the transport secretary and had a 100% load factor.

Whether BHX can turn this into a full year round schedule is another matter perhaps.

We shall see what happens for our 2 regionals ..when it comes to China nothing is straight forward it seems..

Nigel

[All names taken]

To be fair though Nigel, most charter flights of all stripes have 100% (or near as damn it) load factors.
And a bit disingenuous to pretend it's anything more than a few charters bringing Chinese tourists in.

Anyway good for Brum for taking the initiative

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Originally Posted by Sarah19981

Air China is confirming this on when sending them direct messages via Facebook. They are saying the route is in prospective and start the service using a b777 aircraft

What an airline says on public media, what is proprietary and what is actually going on behind company closed doors are very different things.

As mentioned on here previously, like Hainan, I'd leave Air China alone and let them get in with what needs to be done. They don't need someone pestering them for info and updates when they are in no position to give any.

[nigel osborne]

All names taken.

Erm where do I say anything other that these flights are charter ??

For you to suggest all charter flights have 100% load factors is just silly.


Nigel

[FFHKG]

Interesting that this proposed flight (PVG/MAN/EDI) goes to both MAN and EDI, both cities with Chinese Consulates - does Birmingham have one? Did I not read somewhere that a Chinese businessman has bought a building in Salford and has applied for planning permission to convert it into a 200+ bed hotel for Chinese tourists as its a convenient location for tours to both England & Scotland. Maybe the missing passengers from Air China were out scouting future business opportunities based on these two facts.

[Una Due Tfc]

Originally Posted by opnot

Una Due Tfc

single rwy ops a 6 mile gap is required between arrivals

dual rwy ops a 4mile gap is required between arrivals
Therefore for any given hour you will land more acft on dual rwy ops

There are no wake vortex restrictions between arrivals and departures on dual rwy ops under normal operating conditions

3NM on most runways being used exclusively for arrivals if equipped with rapid exit taxiways and wake turbulence is not a factor. If the landing runway is the one being crossed to get to the departure then arrivals must be spaced out further to allow this. Same with departures being spaced out further to allow arrivals cross the runway to get to the terminals, hence less capacity.

The 760 m rule is an ICAO requirement, but I know the UK does other things non ICAO re wake turbulence so I'll take your word on that

[Bagso]

Traffic Statistics | Manchester Airport

June 2105

Oh dear its not only PR that could do with a review of output.

Our long standing book keeper Mrs Hargreaves who is responsible for the petty cash reconciliation and tea money appears to have added an extra 55 million to the YTD pax throughput.