MANCHESTER 1
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Parking
And just to answer my own question posed earlier, the Metrolink expansion business case never expected any impact on passenger travel:it was anticipated that they would continue to use heavy rail. It was anticipated, however, that airport workers would start to use Metrolink instead of cars. If we are looking for parking capacity, therefore, we should be looking to reduce staff parking (cue howls of anguish).
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hmm!
1 - the majority of bookings are via airlines websites now days and as said no LHR connections offered with UA.
2 - Don't buy the merger excuse, UA have found 752 (2 for DUB, 1 NCL, 1 EDI, 1 SNN) plus 2 B764 for VCE/FCO to name a few for this summer and in recent summers....I agree about the larger aircraft however it's not the route of the problem at MAN.
3 - I knew the EDI comment would ruffle a few feathers! Yes a lot arrive via ground however an new routes with UA, AA and AC in recent years have changed it. If couldn't possible explain my reasons for saying EDI is better, would be here all day!
Will be interesting to see how long DL stick with JFK and if it becomes year round or upgraded to B763. If they exit MAN again then it may explain a lot and why perhaps UA have not restored EWR capacity.
On a more general point are MAG is active discussions with these carriers and making MAN a destination of choice for them to expand into by offering the competitive fees like competitors? or are they solely focused on East routes?
1 - the majority of bookings are via airlines websites now days and as said no LHR connections offered with UA.
2 - Don't buy the merger excuse, UA have found 752 (2 for DUB, 1 NCL, 1 EDI, 1 SNN) plus 2 B764 for VCE/FCO to name a few for this summer and in recent summers....I agree about the larger aircraft however it's not the route of the problem at MAN.
3 - I knew the EDI comment would ruffle a few feathers! Yes a lot arrive via ground however an new routes with UA, AA and AC in recent years have changed it. If couldn't possible explain my reasons for saying EDI is better, would be here all day!
Will be interesting to see how long DL stick with JFK and if it becomes year round or upgraded to B763. If they exit MAN again then it may explain a lot and why perhaps UA have not restored EWR capacity.
On a more general point are MAG is active discussions with these carriers and making MAN a destination of choice for them to expand into by offering the competitive fees like competitors? or are they solely focused on East routes?
The merger and use of equipment is not an excuse. I spend a fair amount of time in Houston and from talking to a good number of people in management plus reading the trade press I know that the merged company is trying maintain and increase its international presence with an ageing 757/767 fleet for thinner routes or those where range is required but a 777/747 isn't. Hold capacity to South America is very important to the new company as is deeper penetration in Europe against a strong Delta after the Northwest merger and a strong American with the benefit of the US long haul fleet on board. You obviously have no idea just how the conjunction of the merger and the 787 delays have disrupted what were Continental's plans. Anyway, that apart, the fact remains they need to fill aircraft ex LHR and are buying seats on BA as well as their pax, as I stated previously.
I'm not getting into a subjective debate about the merits of Edinburgh and Manchester as destinations. I just rely on the figures.
Why do you suppose DL may exit?. Their UK -US flights are under review to maximise the value of their involvement in Virgin. Delta have not pulled off the Atlanta route. They have upgraded the equipment and increased the capacity, it just flies as a code share. The colours on the fuselage don't matter as long as the service is acceptable and a profit is made. We also do not know the financial arrangement between the companies on this or any other service they decide to rejig.
There is no evidence that MAN is sitting on its hands with regard to westbound services. There is equally no evidence it isn't. That airport is a business and whilst it may offer announcements, sound bites and hints, its discussions, discounts and other terms are commercially sensitive. People on here may speculate, say what they would do and complain but from experience of international bidding and negotiation to bring people as opposed to aircraft to destinations, inc Manchester, the work that is needed is long term, constant and has more fits and starts than you would ever believe especially, and we have to deal with the facts, when there is over capacity two hundred miles away.
Last edited by philbky; 4th Apr 2015 at 17:31.
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Ian Brooks, As they say, "If you say it often enough, you actually believe it". The debate should be what will be first LHR Runway 3 or MAN doing something about the terminals.
Philbky. I think doing the comparison game between MAN and the worse airports you have been to, is not productive. If you start that then you end up the same, look at the best and aim high.
Philbky. I think doing the comparison game between MAN and the worse airports you have been to, is not productive. If you start that then you end up the same, look at the best and aim high.
As for " the comparison game" as you put it, who said those are the worst airports I have been to? They most certainly are not. They are examples of major city airports which also have their faults, some worse than others. I was comparing the current situation at MAN with their current situation, often unknown or overlooked by critics of MAN, not quoting them as examples to be emulated. I thought that was obvious.
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Because you said exactly the same about Air Canada Rouge pretending you knew more than you do? #eartothedoor 
@Delta fleet planning obv
As for Delta, I am going to disagree here as they no longer serve MAN-ATL as they have passed it to VS, much like KLM didn't serve the UK regions for years when AirUK flew the bulk of UK-AMS. A code share is not the same thing to many frequent fliers. The hard product on the VS A333 has had very poor feedback in comparison to their A346 and B787-9 but the drop in operating costs may well mitigate this completely. It's looking like a good year for VS (long haul) from MAN.
@Delta fleet planning obvAs for Delta, I am going to disagree here as they no longer serve MAN-ATL as they have passed it to VS, much like KLM didn't serve the UK regions for years when AirUK flew the bulk of UK-AMS. A code share is not the same thing to many frequent fliers. The hard product on the VS A333 has had very poor feedback in comparison to their A346 and B787-9 but the drop in operating costs may well mitigate this completely. It's looking like a good year for VS (long haul) from MAN.
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The new 9000-space car park off Ringway Road / Styal Road is only partially operational at this point. The aim is to have it fully open in around three weeks from now, in time for May. It remains to be seen whether any further apron stands will be released back to airside use, as MAG has a rolling plan to withdraw some original parking areas earmarked for 'Airport City' development.
Moving on to Transatlantic services. Remote observers often have a false idea of the amount of leverage airport operators can apply in their dealings with airlines. In the case of a long-haul service, the proportion of the overall cost represented by use of an airport at one end of the route is relatively small. An airport company can provide good service, a supportive attitude and an amenable fees regime. But the truth is that even if they accommodated the airline completely free of charge, this would not represent a substantial percentage reduction in the overall cost of operating a long-haul route. And of course, airports cannot let airlines operate for nothing (except perhaps for an introductory period). They are businesses which need to cover their costs as a minimum and hopefully enjoy a margin of profit on top. In reality, the airline companies hold the aces; the airports try to keep them sweet. There is little the airport operator can do to force the agenda in negotiations with an established airline.
Whilst MAN has no chance of telling UAL/AAL/DAL what to do, they must at least retain cordial relations to maintain the status quo. Beyond that, they can of course woo potential new operators. Perhaps the Thomas Cook initiative is evidence of movement in that direction. And I hate to move into the realms of 'Hainan-style' speculation, but a fifth-freedom operation with an Asian carrier continuing westbound cannot be ruled out. QTR/SIA/UAE have all been the subject of recent speculation relating to this. Certainly, if an incumbent carrier is keeping margins high by strangling available capacity on a core route, the interest of an enterprising competitor could be drawn.
Skipness - Thankyou for your response. My earlier question to you can be summarised as follows: At what price point (both in direct costs and considering additional expense required for external supporting infrastructure) do you believe that LHR R3 becomes too prohibitively expensive to pursue? There has to be a number above which alternative options, however sub-optimal operationally, become the only sensible course of action from a financial perspective.
Moving on to Transatlantic services. Remote observers often have a false idea of the amount of leverage airport operators can apply in their dealings with airlines. In the case of a long-haul service, the proportion of the overall cost represented by use of an airport at one end of the route is relatively small. An airport company can provide good service, a supportive attitude and an amenable fees regime. But the truth is that even if they accommodated the airline completely free of charge, this would not represent a substantial percentage reduction in the overall cost of operating a long-haul route. And of course, airports cannot let airlines operate for nothing (except perhaps for an introductory period). They are businesses which need to cover their costs as a minimum and hopefully enjoy a margin of profit on top. In reality, the airline companies hold the aces; the airports try to keep them sweet. There is little the airport operator can do to force the agenda in negotiations with an established airline.
Whilst MAN has no chance of telling UAL/AAL/DAL what to do, they must at least retain cordial relations to maintain the status quo. Beyond that, they can of course woo potential new operators. Perhaps the Thomas Cook initiative is evidence of movement in that direction. And I hate to move into the realms of 'Hainan-style' speculation, but a fifth-freedom operation with an Asian carrier continuing westbound cannot be ruled out. QTR/SIA/UAE have all been the subject of recent speculation relating to this. Certainly, if an incumbent carrier is keeping margins high by strangling available capacity on a core route, the interest of an enterprising competitor could be drawn.
Skipness - Thankyou for your response. My earlier question to you can be summarised as follows: At what price point (both in direct costs and considering additional expense required for external supporting infrastructure) do you believe that LHR R3 becomes too prohibitively expensive to pursue? There has to be a number above which alternative options, however sub-optimal operationally, become the only sensible course of action from a financial perspective.
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Delta to JFK is already planned to be year round and bookable as such, so not sure why some are questioning if it will become year round?
Because you said exactly the same about Air Canada Rouge pretending you knew more than you do? #eartothedoor @Delta fleet planning obv
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Oh dear, I see through MANFODs quote, skip still hung up on trying to get to me despite him being on ignore for months now. Seriously, move on man, its just patheticly sad now!
Like Manfod has said, if he had just taken 10 seconds to look at the delta, virgin or practically any 3rd party site he would have seen the flight is year round.
Instead, comes out with a smart arse comment and looks the fool.
Dont regret him being on ignore one bit....
Like Manfod has said, if he had just taken 10 seconds to look at the delta, virgin or practically any 3rd party site he would have seen the flight is year round.
Instead, comes out with a smart arse comment and looks the fool.
Dont regret him being on ignore one bit....
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The merger and use of equipment is not an excuse. I spend a fair amount of time in Houston and from talking to a good number of people in management plus reading the trade press I know that the merged company is trying maintain and increase its international presence with an ageing 757/767 fleet for thinner routes or those where range is required but a 777/747 isn't. Hold capacity to South America is very important to the new company as is deeper penetration in Europe against a strong Delta after the Northwest merger and a strong American with the benefit of the US long haul fleet on board. You obviously have no idea just how the conjunction of the merger and the 787 delays have disrupted what were Continental's plans. Anyway, that apart, the fact remains they need to fill aircraft ex LHR and are buying seats on BA as well as their pax, as I stated previously.
I'm not getting into a subjective debate about the merits of Edinburgh and Manchester as destinations. I just rely on the figures
Why do you suppose DL may exit?. Their UK -US flights are under review to maximise the value of their involvement in Virgin. Delta have not pulled off the Atlanta route. They have upgraded the equipment and increased the capacity, it just flies as a code share. The colours on the fuselage don't matter as long as the service is acceptable and a profit is made. We also do not know the financial arrangement between the companies on this or any other service they decide to rejig.
There is no evidence that MAN is sitting on its hands with regard to westbound services. There is equally no evidence it isn't. That airport is a business and whilst it may offer announcements, sound bites and hints, its discussions, discounts and other terms are commercially sensitive. People on here may speculate, say what they would do and complain but from experience of international bidding and negotiation to bring people as opposed to aircraft to destinations, inc Manchester, the work that is needed is long term, constant and has more fits and starts than you would ever believe especially, and we have to deal with the facts, when there is over capacity two hundred miles away.
Delta to JFK is already planned to be year round and bookable as such, so not sure why some are questioning if it will become year round?
Did a few scams of AA direct and via LHR and LHR is 100-200 more per passenger...
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Skipness, so you think Delta have abandoned a route with good loads and a clientele and history going back over 30 years and let it go to an inferior product. The average passenger down the back may see it that way but those using and paying for the more expensive seats know that the Delta product on the route has been struggling and the equipment was, to be polite, elderly. The 333 is modern, well equipped and the Virgin product, though I would be the first to admit varies route by route and is much more ordinary than it was 20 to 30 years ago, is still of a good standard on the North Atlantic non holiday fleet.
This isn't an abandonment or just passing to an airline in an alliance, this is part of the restructuring of Virgin on the one hand and Delta's presence on the Atlantic. There is nothing to stop Delta handing their slots on routes from any where in the EU to Virgin.
Willie Walsh in 2012 stated that Virgin would only last five years at most and Delta would not allow the Virgin brand to continue and dilute the Delta brand.
It seems to me that the change on the Atlanta route is indicative of a thinking in Atlanta HQ which is determined to use the assets of the company to the best effect. The flight numbers on Virgin routes to the US are in the 4xxx series in the Delta flight list which indicate the flights are operated by a company partly or wholly owned by Delta. Other code shares by alliance or code share partners are in the range 7xxx, 8xxx or 9xxx.
I would not put further VS/DL changes out of court and, in the light of a conversation I had with the CEO of Comair at a time when DL owned just 20% of the stock and was flying under its own colours with its own and DL Connection flight numbers on the same flights, I would suggest DL will have laid down some pretty stringent ground rules to keep its customers happy.
In the long term it may well be that Virgin will become wholly owned or branded as a Delta product. This cannot happen under current EU rules but airlines, including BA continue to push hard for the rules to be changed and if the UK leaves the EU...........
This isn't an abandonment or just passing to an airline in an alliance, this is part of the restructuring of Virgin on the one hand and Delta's presence on the Atlantic. There is nothing to stop Delta handing their slots on routes from any where in the EU to Virgin.
Willie Walsh in 2012 stated that Virgin would only last five years at most and Delta would not allow the Virgin brand to continue and dilute the Delta brand.
It seems to me that the change on the Atlanta route is indicative of a thinking in Atlanta HQ which is determined to use the assets of the company to the best effect. The flight numbers on Virgin routes to the US are in the 4xxx series in the Delta flight list which indicate the flights are operated by a company partly or wholly owned by Delta. Other code shares by alliance or code share partners are in the range 7xxx, 8xxx or 9xxx.
I would not put further VS/DL changes out of court and, in the light of a conversation I had with the CEO of Comair at a time when DL owned just 20% of the stock and was flying under its own colours with its own and DL Connection flight numbers on the same flights, I would suggest DL will have laid down some pretty stringent ground rules to keep its customers happy.
In the long term it may well be that Virgin will become wholly owned or branded as a Delta product. This cannot happen under current EU rules but airlines, including BA continue to push hard for the rules to be changed and if the UK leaves the EU...........
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Yes while still trying to maintain such presence they can find the aircraft to restore other routes at the same time and I believe at the announcement of some of them was strong demand for direct flights and not connections. If United have a line of 787's delivered tomorrow they wouldn't put one into MAN.
Fair enough but EDI is ahead of MAN on that list!
I'm with Skipness One Echo general view on ATL, you don't give such a route up within good reason and then resume a route which was dropped a few years ago. Yes things have changed/improved but I can't see DL being around for the long haul.
No evidence but we hear enough spoof about China and not a thing about the US.
Apologies my mistake but winter is a long way off being confirmed as demonstrated last year by AA/UA. Was it year round when announced of changed when they brought start forward,
Did a few scams of AA direct and via LHR and LHR is 100-200 more per passenger...
Fair enough but EDI is ahead of MAN on that list!
I'm with Skipness One Echo general view on ATL, you don't give such a route up within good reason and then resume a route which was dropped a few years ago. Yes things have changed/improved but I can't see DL being around for the long haul.
No evidence but we hear enough spoof about China and not a thing about the US.
Apologies my mistake but winter is a long way off being confirmed as demonstrated last year by AA/UA. Was it year round when announced of changed when they brought start forward,
Did a few scams of AA direct and via LHR and LHR is 100-200 more per passenger...
Edinburgh: Holidays 838000; Business 134000; VFR 275000; Study and Miscellaneous 57000 Total 1334000
Manchester: Holidays 222000; Business 336000; VFR 248000; Study and Miscellaneous 182000 Total 988000
Whilst the gross figures for Edinburgh are higher the value in terms of spend is tilting towards Manchester more than the bald figures show as business visitors spend between 50% and 75% more than holiday makers per diem and study visits are usually long term.
But we aren't talking about raw visitors, the bulk of which arrive in Edinburgh by road or rail. Look up the airport passenger figures. Manchester serves a far bigger and more populous hinterland.
Re your comment about the UA 787s, I beg your pardon, I didn't realise you were privy to UA's fleet planning. Of course that is pure speculation on your part to bulk out your argument. United have 65 787s of all types on order of which they currently have 17. These are being used on selected routes in the US to Europe and the Pacific. They also have 46 more on option/letter of intent. In addition they have A350s in the pipeline and are seriously considering the A321LR. Which type and how frequently they would replace the Europe serving 757s with is not known and in the interim they are using what they have to build and maintain presence. As I said before they are happy to fill LHR empty seats with MAN pax, LHR presence being vital, and maintain a presence at MAN. If and when they fill all their seats out of LHR without transfers from MAN and the demand from MAN is under served they will look at either bigger equipment or more flights.
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What I would like to see
1. Let LHR get on with its own market. Focus on developing new and re-instating routes from MAN
2. Focus on Northern Hub, using devolved transport powers to max.
3. Abolish HS2, it has no benefit to us; capacity on West Coast is plentiful can be increased at peak times with less first class, perhaps something between std/1st, longer platforms/trains.
4. Use HS2 money on improving existing terminals at MAN and its infrastructure.
5. Use HS2 money on northern rail & road improvements.
6. US pre-clearance is a good idea
ps its just my opinion
2. Focus on Northern Hub, using devolved transport powers to max.
3. Abolish HS2, it has no benefit to us; capacity on West Coast is plentiful can be increased at peak times with less first class, perhaps something between std/1st, longer platforms/trains.
4. Use HS2 money on improving existing terminals at MAN and its infrastructure.
5. Use HS2 money on northern rail & road improvements.
6. US pre-clearance is a good idea
ps its just my opinion
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There are a number of others which are still used for car parking which I understood would be put back to stands when the new 9000 space carpark was fully open which I think it is now.
On the issue of terminal developments and what may happen (or not), someone has mentioned shareholder approval is required. This of course would be the first major infrastructure development with "external" shareholders, which may well change the way capital expenditure is evaluated. And it also would be the first major development since MAG acquired STN, where a large stash of money has recently been invested, so that would also have to be factored into the equation.
Any investment will also have to be looked at in the context of the aviation picture in the UK as a whole including - sorry to mention it - the outcome of our friend Davies's deliberations.
And of course, what will be the composition of the next UK Government and their views on aviation and airport policy?We'll wait to see what happens next. And someone could open a book on whether we hear about the terminals or Hainan first.
Last edited by Suzeman; 5th Apr 2015 at 09:34.
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Dont regret him being on ignore one bit....
This is Delta's 2nd or 3rd go at JFK? The hard product on the B763 was a lil aged but the fleet is being refreshed, the aircraft with the three windows blocked behind door one have been refurbed. #geek
Not sure three daily to NYC is a good idea over the winter but time will tell, I suspect someone will blink. AA have only recently swapped ORD for JFK in terms of seasonal suspension, I think with US coming on board, ORD will be even less loved for long haul.
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Im not ure if Skips last post is again aimed at me, but if so, little hard to take seriously a guy that cannot grasp the basic concept of being on ignore.
He is literally wasting his time.
He is literally wasting his time.
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Delta to JFK is already planned to be year round and bookable as such,
Continuing to take cheap, sarcastic digs at a fellow poster who you know won't respond, (even if your intention is to try and provoke him to do so), isn't contributing in any meaningful way to the thread in my opinion. You're better than that and provide good debating points at times even if some of us don't always agree with you.
Returning to the question of flights to New York from MAN, apart from excess demand during busy periods which may be diverted to fill seats from LHR, it would be interesting to know also how many savvy cost conscious travellers may be choosing to fly via DUB or KEF at the expense of MAN's direct services. A friend is planning to go to Seattle later this year by Icelandair simply because of the fares.
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MANFOD,
Skips the one looking the fool for continuing a tirade which won't be recprocated, and, lets face it, not exactly full of accurate info himself.
At the end of the day, info I am told is posted by myself here in good faith. People can choose to do what they will with anything I post.
Is it 100% accurate 100% of the time? well, no, and I have never claimed it to be. In terms of some info, I can only go off what I see/am told. Look at Montenegro Airlines. Several press releases that MAN and LYS would be new routes this year. LYS became bookable, MAN did not. My fault for that? No.
Air Canada rouge. It was bookable until 7th November at one stage, and, on emailing the airline directly, they told me that if the route was bookable year round, it would be available year round. Agaon, my fault for the backtrack? No.
At least I post info which can, in most instances, be helpful to others, instead of just being an argumentative twerp worried about which BA livery has a crest on it or if the Qatar A330 has 2 anti collision lights on the top.
Thats all I have to say about him. Any other posts aimed at me from him to which I can garner the jist via other posters quotes, will now just be reported to the mods, and, frankly, at least others are no seeing him for the annoyance he is.
Skips the one looking the fool for continuing a tirade which won't be recprocated, and, lets face it, not exactly full of accurate info himself.
At the end of the day, info I am told is posted by myself here in good faith. People can choose to do what they will with anything I post.
Is it 100% accurate 100% of the time? well, no, and I have never claimed it to be. In terms of some info, I can only go off what I see/am told. Look at Montenegro Airlines. Several press releases that MAN and LYS would be new routes this year. LYS became bookable, MAN did not. My fault for that? No.
Air Canada rouge. It was bookable until 7th November at one stage, and, on emailing the airline directly, they told me that if the route was bookable year round, it would be available year round. Agaon, my fault for the backtrack? No.
At least I post info which can, in most instances, be helpful to others, instead of just being an argumentative twerp worried about which BA livery has a crest on it or if the Qatar A330 has 2 anti collision lights on the top.
Thats all I have to say about him. Any other posts aimed at me from him to which I can garner the jist via other posters quotes, will now just be reported to the mods, and, frankly, at least others are no seeing him for the annoyance he is.
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Skipness - At this point, I think the board may benefit all round if we concentrate our minds on more constructive grounds for discussion. May I invite you to put this unfortunate Delta JFK misstep behind you and instead concentrate your mind on the question I put to you in the final paragraph of post #1552.
Time for something a little lighter for our bank holiday musings. So permit me to run a special Easter Sunday parable by you. Afew years ago you recall visiting Manchester and feeling hungry. You remember buying a great sandwich with all the trimmings for £1.72. Your friends at the bank tell you that the same sandwich bought there today today would cost you £2.53.
Now you find yourself in London, and this time you're even hungrier than you were back in Manchester. That sandwich would be the perfect remedy. But there is a problem. The shop in London tells you that the same sandwich there will cost you around £200.00, although that price-tag seems to increase by the week. And even worse, the sandwich can only be sold on a supporting foil tray. 'Trays for London' tell you that they reckon this will cost you another £200.00.
Fortunately, those nice guys at the council tell you that they'll get their ratepayers to stump up £100.00 towards the cost of the tray. They will divert the funds from the more deprived peripheral areas of the borough which everyone seems to have forgotten about. So the cost to you will be £300.00 and the council will stump up £100.00 for a total of £400.00. But you are really hungry. And that sandwich would really satisfy a pressing need. And all your mates in Europe are getting nice sandwiches already.
You are told there is a chippy midway between London and Brighton. They'd do you a pack of chips for just £80.00. But you think their chips are greasy and wouldn't satisfy your hunger the same. It's all so frustrating. Your friend in Istanbul is buying an entire banquet for £80.00.
You know that sandwich is the one you really, really want. You've had two of them there already and they're yummy. The greasy chips near Brighton are alot cheaper (though still relatively expensive). And you don't fancy them anyway.
So what do you do? Do you buy the £400.00 sandwich? Or the £80.00 greasy chips? Or do you say: "Hang on a minute. None of this is even close to being worth the money! Let's keep the money and spend it on something much, much better for the same price."
So ... back to reality. Manchester's 23L/05R was delivered for £172M, or £253M in today's money. LHR R3, we are told, is facing costs of upto £40,000M if the latest TfL estimates are taken into account. So I ask you: what is the price-point at which you say: "LHR R3 is operationally desirable, but at this price I just have to face reality and say NO WAY!"
I'll accept an answer to the nearest Billion! ;-)
Time for something a little lighter for our bank holiday musings. So permit me to run a special Easter Sunday parable by you. Afew years ago you recall visiting Manchester and feeling hungry. You remember buying a great sandwich with all the trimmings for £1.72. Your friends at the bank tell you that the same sandwich bought there today today would cost you £2.53.
Now you find yourself in London, and this time you're even hungrier than you were back in Manchester. That sandwich would be the perfect remedy. But there is a problem. The shop in London tells you that the same sandwich there will cost you around £200.00, although that price-tag seems to increase by the week. And even worse, the sandwich can only be sold on a supporting foil tray. 'Trays for London' tell you that they reckon this will cost you another £200.00.
Fortunately, those nice guys at the council tell you that they'll get their ratepayers to stump up £100.00 towards the cost of the tray. They will divert the funds from the more deprived peripheral areas of the borough which everyone seems to have forgotten about. So the cost to you will be £300.00 and the council will stump up £100.00 for a total of £400.00. But you are really hungry. And that sandwich would really satisfy a pressing need. And all your mates in Europe are getting nice sandwiches already.
You are told there is a chippy midway between London and Brighton. They'd do you a pack of chips for just £80.00. But you think their chips are greasy and wouldn't satisfy your hunger the same. It's all so frustrating. Your friend in Istanbul is buying an entire banquet for £80.00.
You know that sandwich is the one you really, really want. You've had two of them there already and they're yummy. The greasy chips near Brighton are alot cheaper (though still relatively expensive). And you don't fancy them anyway.
So what do you do? Do you buy the £400.00 sandwich? Or the £80.00 greasy chips? Or do you say: "Hang on a minute. None of this is even close to being worth the money! Let's keep the money and spend it on something much, much better for the same price."
So ... back to reality. Manchester's 23L/05R was delivered for £172M, or £253M in today's money. LHR R3, we are told, is facing costs of upto £40,000M if the latest TfL estimates are taken into account. So I ask you: what is the price-point at which you say: "LHR R3 is operationally desirable, but at this price I just have to face reality and say NO WAY!"
I'll accept an answer to the nearest Billion! ;-)
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 5th Apr 2015 at 15:09. Reason: My other computer allows £-signs!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Age: 51
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How much LHR R3 is has what to do with Manchester exactly ? And why take half a page to ask what you asked in the last two lines !!
The sly personal jibes going on here, and the repetitive nonsense about LHR, is more than boring...IMO.
The sly personal jibes going on here, and the repetitive nonsense about LHR, is more than boring...IMO.