MANCHESTER 1
Delta used a B764 on their JFK yesterday, and United is using a B764 N66056 on this morning's EWR service. It would be nice if they could both make a habit of that 
AA has also upgraded their JFK to 767 the last couple of flights. Is there something on in New York this weekend ?
AA has also upgraded their JFK to 767 the last couple of flights. Is there something on in New York this weekend ?
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Menzies, Aviator, ASIG and WFS do not have de-icing kit.
The problem is an Airport one when they issue Licences not insisting minimum Equipment levels for GHA's.
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Wools
Intrigued by your theory that this is an airport problem...
The kit is provided by the GHA for their airline customers. So in your view, the airport states "GHA - you will provide X number of rigs". The GHA now has to say "Airline, you must pay for X rigs because the airport has mandated it!" I can see how that conversation ends.
Airlines need the service but as with everything in life do not want to pay any more than they have to for it. Of course the trouble with de-icing is everyone wants the service at the same time. Rather inconvenient really - if only some of these airline would agree to de-ice in July we wouldn't have these problems every winter!! :-)
So as much as it is a problem that the airport has to manage, as the airlines will have to pay for it, I can't see any huge changes unless we see some mind set changes.
Intrigued by your theory that this is an airport problem...
The kit is provided by the GHA for their airline customers. So in your view, the airport states "GHA - you will provide X number of rigs". The GHA now has to say "Airline, you must pay for X rigs because the airport has mandated it!" I can see how that conversation ends.
Airlines need the service but as with everything in life do not want to pay any more than they have to for it. Of course the trouble with de-icing is everyone wants the service at the same time. Rather inconvenient really - if only some of these airline would agree to de-ice in July we wouldn't have these problems every winter!! :-)
So as much as it is a problem that the airport has to manage, as the airlines will have to pay for it, I can't see any huge changes unless we see some mind set changes.
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23L Opening times
Hi all,
I understand that Manchester's runway 23L is open from 6.30 - 10.30am, and then 4.00 - 800pm (with different times at the weekend.)
Is their any info as to when the opening times are extended, to 1pm - 8pm on the weekday, and an extra 1 - 4pm on Saturdays? I know it's during the summer, but does anyone know which month, or even date, specifically?
Many thanks in advance.
I understand that Manchester's runway 23L is open from 6.30 - 10.30am, and then 4.00 - 800pm (with different times at the weekend.)
Is their any info as to when the opening times are extended, to 1pm - 8pm on the weekday, and an extra 1 - 4pm on Saturdays? I know it's during the summer, but does anyone know which month, or even date, specifically?
Many thanks in advance.
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IMHO the blame lay with the airport, the airlines asked for a remote deicing point nearer to the runway, after last years fiasco when snow fell, because the hold over times are not sufficient to do the de-snowing on the gate and a 10 to 15 minute taxi time, the answer from the airport - NO CAN NOT!
I know 1 747 was desnowed and by the time it was completed it had to be done again as the hold over time was up! 6000L!!!!!
I know 1 747 was desnowed and by the time it was completed it had to be done again as the hold over time was up! 6000L!!!!!
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IMHO the blame lay with the airport, the airlines asked for a remote deicing point nearer to the runway, after last years fiasco when snow fell, because the hold over times are not sufficient to do the de-snowing on the gate and a 10 to 15 minute taxi time, the answer from the airport - NO CAN NOT!
I know 1 747 was desnowed and by the time it was completed it had to be done again as the hold over time was up! 6000L!!!!!
I know 1 747 was desnowed and by the time it was completed it had to be done again as the hold over time was up! 6000L!!!!!
IIRC, when I worked for an airport, they required airlines not to have excessively long check-in queues and to match other standards felt useful in promoting the airport as customer-friendly.
I don't see why similar requirements would not be applied to airside equipment.
I don't see why similar requirements would not be applied to airside equipment.
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I don't think MAN has suffered particularly badly in recent years with de-icing (in terms of aircraft de-icing). It's usually been runway closures and similar.
In all fairness the de-icing crews from Swissport/Airline Services usually do a fairly decent job given the resources and logistics of it all
I do hear whispers that there were a lot of overtime refusals on Friday that may have contributed to the delays?
But hey, if you treat your staff like
with zero hour contracts and the like
In all fairness the de-icing crews from Swissport/Airline Services usually do a fairly decent job given the resources and logistics of it all
I do hear whispers that there were a lot of overtime refusals on Friday that may have contributed to the delays?
But hey, if you treat your staff like
with zero hour contracts and the like
In all fairness the de-icing crews from Swissport/Airline Services usually do a fairly decent job given the resources and logistics of it all
I do hear whispers that there were a lot of overtime refusals on Friday that may have contributed to the delays?
But hey, if you treat your staff like
with zero hour contracts and the like 
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From what I saw Swissport had all 3 rigs up and running and delays weren't too bad for them, ~1 hour or so which isn't anything unusual during heavy snowfall (and they even managed to de-ice a few non contracted airlines).
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Wools
Intrigued by your theory that this is an airport problem...
The kit is provided by the GHA for their airline customers. So in your view, the airport states "GHA - you will provide X number of rigs". The GHA now has to say "Airline, you must pay for X rigs because the airport has mandated it!" I can see how that conversation ends.
Airlines need the service but as with everything in life do not want to pay any more than they have to for it. Of course the trouble with de-icing is everyone wants the service at the same time. Rather inconvenient really - if only some of these airline would agree to de-ice in July we wouldn't have these problems every winter!! :-)
So as much as it is a problem that the airport has to manage, as the airlines will have to pay for it, I can't see any huge changes unless we see some mind set changes.
Intrigued by your theory that this is an airport problem...
The kit is provided by the GHA for their airline customers. So in your view, the airport states "GHA - you will provide X number of rigs". The GHA now has to say "Airline, you must pay for X rigs because the airport has mandated it!" I can see how that conversation ends.
Airlines need the service but as with everything in life do not want to pay any more than they have to for it. Of course the trouble with de-icing is everyone wants the service at the same time. Rather inconvenient really - if only some of these airline would agree to de-ice in July we wouldn't have these problems every winter!! :-)
So as much as it is a problem that the airport has to manage, as the airlines will have to pay for it, I can't see any huge changes unless we see some mind set changes.
As mentioned in another post MAG have performance requirements for everything else from the GHA's except De-icing.
MAG cannot or will not provide a Central De-icing Facility.
So its very easy just to blame the 2 providers of those that are able and the staff who went above the normal last Friday.
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Manchester de-icing
Why all this moaning? In this life you get what you pay for so if airlines seeking to maximise profits choose to award ground handling contracts to the most competitive bidder don't be surprised if they don't have the equipment to service planes in adverse weather. On the other hand have those handling the tendering process considered the possibility of snow? Micky ?Mouse could deal with this more efficiently!
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In a similar vein, do any insiders know why T3 security at MAN always has huge queues even at off peak times? One thing Heathrow Airport has really tackled is this area, it is by no means uncommon to have ZERO people in front of you in T5 now mid morning whilst at the same time in Manchester it takes a good 20 minutes (accompanied by much shouting which is hardly conducive to reducing stress of customers or air crew one would think). If your bag is selected for secondary search it looks as though you can kiss goodbye to any time spent in the shops or lounges so must cost them money?
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So MAN has less than 6 de-ricers for an airport handling close to 25 million, ridiculous.
How many do EDI, GLA, LPL, BHX have, one would expect a much higher ration to the actual numbers of passengers handled.
Delays of up to an hour would be expected however higher than that then there is a real problem.
We always hear about staff been cut to the bone yet every other airport in the UK appear not to have such problem. Why is this, are they over staffed, I expect not.
No disrespect but you should really be able to answer your own question. Staff have been cut or moved to address peak hour problems and nobody new hired.
20 minutes would be the norm at peak times in an airport the size of MAN, never mind off peak.
If MAN was a regulated airport there would be fines for such poor performance, no specifically related to the security to in general.
How many do EDI, GLA, LPL, BHX have, one would expect a much higher ration to the actual numbers of passengers handled.
Delays of up to an hour would be expected however higher than that then there is a real problem.
We always hear about staff been cut to the bone yet every other airport in the UK appear not to have such problem. Why is this, are they over staffed, I expect not.
In a similar vein, do any insiders know why T3 security at MAN always has huge queues even at off peak times? One thing Heathrow Airport has really tackled is this area, it is by no means uncommon to have ZERO people in front of you in T5 now mid morning whilst at the same time in Manchester it takes a good 20 minutes (accompanied by much shouting which is hardly conducive to reducing stress of customers or air crew one would think). If your bag is selected for secondary search it looks as though you can kiss goodbye to any time spent in the shops or lounges so must cost them money?
20 minutes would be the norm at peak times in an airport the size of MAN, never mind off peak.
If MAN was a regulated airport there would be fines for such poor performance, no specifically related to the security to in general.
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In a similar vein, do any insiders know why T3 security at MAN always has huge queues even at off peak times? One thing Heathrow Airport has really tackled is this area, it is by no means uncommon to have ZERO people in front of you in T5 now mid morning whilst at the same time in Manchester it takes a good 20 minutes (accompanied by much shouting which is hardly conducive to reducing stress of customers or air crew one would think). If your bag is selected for secondary search it looks as though you can kiss goodbye to any time spent in the shops or lounges so must cost them money?
Agree on the shouting though.
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[QUOTE=j636;9303944]So MAN has less than 6 de-ricers for an airport handling close to 25 million, ridiculous.
How many do EDI, GLA, LPL, BHX have, one would expect a much higher ration to the actual numbers of passengers handled.
T5 LHR handled 32M passengers in 2014, BA has 25 deicing rigs in use there IIRC albeit there is a higher proportion of wide bodied movements there which as someone has said needs to tie up 2-4 rigs simultaneously to avoid holdover issues in falling snow.
How many do EDI, GLA, LPL, BHX have, one would expect a much higher ration to the actual numbers of passengers handled.
T5 LHR handled 32M passengers in 2014, BA has 25 deicing rigs in use there IIRC albeit there is a higher proportion of wide bodied movements there which as someone has said needs to tie up 2-4 rigs simultaneously to avoid holdover issues in falling snow.
Last edited by Porky Speedpig; 8th Mar 2016 at 17:35. Reason: updated info
