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Old 6th Mar 2016, 01:32
  #4421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Delta used a B764 on their JFK yesterday, and United is using a B764 N66056 on this morning's EWR service. It would be nice if they could both make a habit of that
AA has also upgraded their JFK to 767 the last couple of flights. Is there something on in New York this weekend ?
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 06:56
  #4422 (permalink)  
 
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Delta was upgraded due no Sunday service for next 3 weeks


Ian
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 11:45
  #4423 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Not true. The QR46 was delayed for nearly 4 hours. Partly due to Swissport de-icing non-contracted airlines first.

Have Menzies not got any de-icing kit?


Menzies, Aviator, ASIG and WFS do not have de-icing kit.


The problem is an Airport one when they issue Licences not insisting minimum Equipment levels for GHA's.
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 12:24
  #4424 (permalink)  
 
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Wools


Intrigued by your theory that this is an airport problem...


The kit is provided by the GHA for their airline customers. So in your view, the airport states "GHA - you will provide X number of rigs". The GHA now has to say "Airline, you must pay for X rigs because the airport has mandated it!" I can see how that conversation ends.


Airlines need the service but as with everything in life do not want to pay any more than they have to for it. Of course the trouble with de-icing is everyone wants the service at the same time. Rather inconvenient really - if only some of these airline would agree to de-ice in July we wouldn't have these problems every winter!! :-)


So as much as it is a problem that the airport has to manage, as the airlines will have to pay for it, I can't see any huge changes unless we see some mind set changes.
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 16:24
  #4425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Manchester
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23L Opening times

Hi all,

I understand that Manchester's runway 23L is open from 6.30 - 10.30am, and then 4.00 - 800pm (with different times at the weekend.)

Is their any info as to when the opening times are extended, to 1pm - 8pm on the weekday, and an extra 1 - 4pm on Saturdays? I know it's during the summer, but does anyone know which month, or even date, specifically?

Many thanks in advance.
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 19:12
  #4426 (permalink)  
 
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Cool

IMHO the blame lay with the airport, the airlines asked for a remote deicing point nearer to the runway, after last years fiasco when snow fell, because the hold over times are not sufficient to do the de-snowing on the gate and a 10 to 15 minute taxi time, the answer from the airport - NO CAN NOT!
I know 1 747 was desnowed and by the time it was completed it had to be done again as the hold over time was up! 6000L!!!!!
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 19:36
  #4427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Originally Posted by spannersatcx View Post
IMHO the blame lay with the airport, the airlines asked for a remote deicing point nearer to the runway, after last years fiasco when snow fell, because the hold over times are not sufficient to do the de-snowing on the gate and a 10 to 15 minute taxi time, the answer from the airport - NO CAN NOT!
I know 1 747 was desnowed and by the time it was completed it had to be done again as the hold over time was up! 6000L!!!!!
The problem at the moment is that there is nowhere to locate such a facility where there is sufficient pavement around the aircraft footprint and where it won't impede the flow of traffic to runways. Believe me it has been explored in some detail. Remember that, unlike LGW and STN, MAN has three terminals and three different departure runways - 23R, 23L, and 05L, all some distance apart and without dual taxiways near the holding points, so you would need multiple facilities at considerable cost. How often do we have a serious problem with de-icing delays? There are other ways to resolve the recent event. The taxiway developments introduced by MAN-TP may offer some scope for a centralised de-icing station but we'll have to wait a little while for that.
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 19:57
  #4428 (permalink)  
c52
 
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IIRC, when I worked for an airport, they required airlines not to have excessively long check-in queues and to match other standards felt useful in promoting the airport as customer-friendly.

I don't see why similar requirements would not be applied to airside equipment.
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 20:04
  #4429 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think MAN has suffered particularly badly in recent years with de-icing (in terms of aircraft de-icing). It's usually been runway closures and similar.

In all fairness the de-icing crews from Swissport/Airline Services usually do a fairly decent job given the resources and logistics of it all

I do hear whispers that there were a lot of overtime refusals on Friday that may have contributed to the delays?

But hey, if you treat your staff like with zero hour contracts and the like
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 21:04
  #4430 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 750XL View Post

In all fairness the de-icing crews from Swissport/Airline Services usually do a fairly decent job given the resources and logistics of it all

I do hear whispers that there were a lot of overtime refusals on Friday that may have contributed to the delays?

But hey, if you treat your staff like with zero hour contracts and the like
Absolutely spot on.
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Old 6th Mar 2016, 21:25
  #4431 (permalink)  
 
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From what I saw Swissport had all 3 rigs up and running and delays weren't too bad for them, ~1 hour or so which isn't anything unusual during heavy snowfall (and they even managed to de-ice a few non contracted airlines).
Swissport started of well, but by 13:00 were uncontactable with the BA1375 taking a 4hr delay and waiting eventually for the snow to melt.
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Old 7th Mar 2016, 15:15
  #4432 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The96er View Post
Swissport started of well, but by 13:00 were uncontactable with the BA1375 taking a 4hr delay and waiting eventually for the snow to melt.


Don't Menzies handle BA oh sorry forgot they do not provide de-icing.
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Old 7th Mar 2016, 15:22
  #4433 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by commit aviation View Post
Wools


Intrigued by your theory that this is an airport problem...


The kit is provided by the GHA for their airline customers. So in your view, the airport states "GHA - you will provide X number of rigs". The GHA now has to say "Airline, you must pay for X rigs because the airport has mandated it!" I can see how that conversation ends.


Airlines need the service but as with everything in life do not want to pay any more than they have to for it. Of course the trouble with de-icing is everyone wants the service at the same time. Rather inconvenient really - if only some of these airline would agree to de-ice in July we wouldn't have these problems every winter!! :-)


So as much as it is a problem that the airport has to manage, as the airlines will have to pay for it, I can't see any huge changes unless we see some mind set changes.

As mentioned in another post MAG have performance requirements for everything else from the GHA's except De-icing.


MAG cannot or will not provide a Central De-icing Facility.
So its very easy just to blame the 2 providers of those that are able and the staff who went above the normal last Friday.
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Old 7th Mar 2016, 18:14
  #4434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Manchester de-icing

Why all this moaning? In this life you get what you pay for so if airlines seeking to maximise profits choose to award ground handling contracts to the most competitive bidder don't be surprised if they don't have the equipment to service planes in adverse weather. On the other hand have those handling the tendering process considered the possibility of snow? Micky ?Mouse could deal with this more efficiently!
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 08:14
  #4435 (permalink)  
 
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Welcome to Manchester? Huge queues greet travellers at Manchester Airport passport control - Manchester Evening News
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 13:14
  #4436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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In a similar vein, do any insiders know why T3 security at MAN always has huge queues even at off peak times? One thing Heathrow Airport has really tackled is this area, it is by no means uncommon to have ZERO people in front of you in T5 now mid morning whilst at the same time in Manchester it takes a good 20 minutes (accompanied by much shouting which is hardly conducive to reducing stress of customers or air crew one would think). If your bag is selected for secondary search it looks as though you can kiss goodbye to any time spent in the shops or lounges so must cost them money?
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 14:28
  #4437 (permalink)  
 
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So MAN has less than 6 de-ricers for an airport handling close to 25 million, ridiculous.

How many do EDI, GLA, LPL, BHX have, one would expect a much higher ration to the actual numbers of passengers handled.

Delays of up to an hour would be expected however higher than that then there is a real problem.

We always hear about staff been cut to the bone yet every other airport in the UK appear not to have such problem. Why is this, are they over staffed, I expect not.

In a similar vein, do any insiders know why T3 security at MAN always has huge queues even at off peak times? One thing Heathrow Airport has really tackled is this area, it is by no means uncommon to have ZERO people in front of you in T5 now mid morning whilst at the same time in Manchester it takes a good 20 minutes (accompanied by much shouting which is hardly conducive to reducing stress of customers or air crew one would think). If your bag is selected for secondary search it looks as though you can kiss goodbye to any time spent in the shops or lounges so must cost them money?
No disrespect but you should really be able to answer your own question. Staff have been cut or moved to address peak hour problems and nobody new hired.

20 minutes would be the norm at peak times in an airport the size of MAN, never mind off peak.

If MAN was a regulated airport there would be fines for such poor performance, no specifically related to the security to in general.
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 15:05
  #4438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Originally Posted by Porky Speedpig View Post
In a similar vein, do any insiders know why T3 security at MAN always has huge queues even at off peak times? One thing Heathrow Airport has really tackled is this area, it is by no means uncommon to have ZERO people in front of you in T5 now mid morning whilst at the same time in Manchester it takes a good 20 minutes (accompanied by much shouting which is hardly conducive to reducing stress of customers or air crew one would think). If your bag is selected for secondary search it looks as though you can kiss goodbye to any time spent in the shops or lounges so must cost them money?
That's not my experience of T3. Usually get through at 0715 without too much of an issue (other than the FastTrack being slower then the standard queue due passengers with all luggage crammed into hand baggage - fishing out liquids and laptops causes the delay).

Agree on the shouting though.
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 17:12
  #4439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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[QUOTE=j636;9303944]So MAN has less than 6 de-ricers for an airport handling close to 25 million, ridiculous.

How many do EDI, GLA, LPL, BHX have, one would expect a much higher ration to the actual numbers of passengers handled.

T5 LHR handled 32M passengers in 2014, BA has 25 deicing rigs in use there IIRC albeit there is a higher proportion of wide bodied movements there which as someone has said needs to tie up 2-4 rigs simultaneously to avoid holdover issues in falling snow.

Last edited by Porky Speedpig; 8th Mar 2016 at 17:35. Reason: updated info
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 17:25
  #4440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Newcastle
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Is there a timetable online for manchester airport for the charters without going into every route for the summer??

thanks
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