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Old 3rd Mar 2016, 19:58
  #4401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Birmingham
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Leeds Bradford used Small Planet Airlines for their Northern Lights charter tonight.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 10:35
  #4402 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Qatar

QR still juggling equipment on our flights. For the month of April the early morning flights are all 788s, the lunchtime flights are 77Ws and the evening flights a mix of A332/A333. Do they have crew based in MAN ? If not I'm glad I'm not paying the crew hotel bills !
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 19:19
  #4403 (permalink)  
 
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B77W on QR45/46 until at least end of May, possibly until September at earliest too.

Seems recently MAN getting everything from Qatar, given that for years were were pretty much an ever reliable and steady A330 route.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 19:47
  #4404 (permalink)  
 
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BBC News is reporting that there were major delays at Manchester today do to a lack of de-icers

easyJet said they had to cancel 9 flights today and divert one flight to Liverpool. In addition, a BBC North West presenter said they were 70 minutes later boarding an easyJet flight to Geneva and then were told they were number 30 in the queue to be de-iced. The passengers waited a further 6 hours for the aircraft to be de-iced.

The morning Flybe to the Isle of Man was delayed by nearly 7 and a half hours. Flybe has cancelled 23 departures from Manchester today. Jet2 passengers also reported problems and the first two Emirates flights of the day were delayed in Departing by over 2 hours as a result of the de-icing problems.

Last edited by Ametyst1; 4th Mar 2016 at 20:10.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 19:59
  #4405 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
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You pay handling agents peanuts...you don't get de-iced...
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 21:41
  #4406 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I know Manchester doesn't suffer snow problems often, but the airport says de-icing is the responsibility of the airlines. How many de-icing rigs does Manchester have and are they owned by the airport or airlines? If the airport do they have enough?
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 22:40
  #4407 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Leeds
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Originally Posted by LAX_LHR View Post
B77W on QR45/46 until at least end of May, possibly until September at earliest too.

Seems recently MAN getting everything from Qatar, given that for years were were pretty much an ever reliable and steady A330 route.
It's a very good airline. I hope one day we will see them bring yet larger aircraft to MAN, but they have a long way to go yet! It's incredible how well the ME3 have done here.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 23:05
  #4408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Don`t think airport own any de-icer rigs

Ian
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 23:15
  #4409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
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The de-icing is done by three separate companies. The airlines each contract one of them.

eggc is right. The race to the bottom has ensured that contingency plans are done on the cheap.

It was a joke today. Trying to de-ice a 777 or bigger with one rig in falling snow is stupid. Even with Type IV.
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Old 4th Mar 2016, 23:43
  #4410 (permalink)  
 
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Thought there was only two de-icing companies?

Swissport have 3 rigs and Airline Services (the company that caused all the delays today) have around 10 iirc. I believe Swissport even de-iced a few aircraft for Airline Services today.

Lots of lengthy delays and cancellations, along with pax stuck on aircraft for 8+ hours waiting in the de-icing queue etc.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 06:50
  #4411 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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One de ice truck for any aircraft in falling snow is stupid.

De ice trucks that have technical problems is not good enough.

De ice truck that runs out of fuel whilst de icing an aircraft is careless.

All of the above happend to one particular aircraft yesterday but they were one of the lucky ones as they were only 3 hours late.

In falling snow remote de icing at the runway with two trucks, one either side of the aircraft is a must. Hold over times were around 30 mins yesterday in those conditions.

The airport, airlines and service companies need to come up with a solution that works and all take joint responsibility.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 07:23
  #4412 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Manchester
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All those months of good PR and good feeling for MAGs future dashed in an instant by a bit of snow. (no excuses, it was forecast)

Its all right MAG trying to say its the responsibility of the airlines and handling agents to deice aircraft but the travelling public dont hear that they just see chaos and the damage to reputation is done regardless of who is responsible.

There is never going to be a solution to this so long as companies working on the airport are allowed to operate with minimal equipment and staff.

Planning for all eventualities is very expensive and it now seems to be OK to take the hit and the consequences on the bad days.

It must be so frustrating for MAGs PR machine.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 07:34
  #4413 (permalink)  
 
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There is never going to be a solution to this so long as companies working on the airport are allowed to operate with minimal equipment and staff.
What you mean is "so long as airlines cut contracts to the bone and aren't prepared to pay for an effective service"

You get what you pay for.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 5th Mar 2016, 07:53
  #4414 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Manchester
Posts: 836
I am not privy to any contracts between airlines and handling agents but surely in them, there must be reference to a snow/deicing plan. In that contract there must be minimum service levels agreed and Im sure that no one would have agreed to the shambles we saw yesterday as being any sort of standard.

Cutting to the bone with a hope that nothing unusual happens may work most of the time but unless there is a change in this bargain basement mentality then this will occur again and again.

Bad service and poor PR is bad enough but what worries me is that such a flight safety critical procedure (deicing) can be pruned so bare. Its only a matter of time before people are going to get hurt. This isnt just penny pinching its a breakdown of a safety management system. And that involves everyone.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 07:54
  #4415 (permalink)  
 
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Swissport have 3 rigs and Airline Services (the company that caused all the delays today) have around 10 iirc. I believe Swissport even de-iced a few aircraft for Airline Services today.
Do we know how many of those rigs were serviceable and being used at any one time? In other words, were there enough staff to operate all that were available?

Quoting MAN777:
"All those months of good PR and good feeling for MAGs future dashed in an instant by a bit of snow. (no excuses, it was forecast)"

Certainly bad PR for the airport, whether justified or not, but the forecast (TAFS) was not as severe as the weather turned out. As I recall, the likelihood was rain and snow (sleet) with only a 30% probability of temporarily c1200m in snow. More significant snow was only expected at higher levels. In the event, the snow at MAN was more intense at times with only 600m met vis. and was more persistent. (If it's the met office that provides the forecasts, they've also failed to predict dense fog on a few occasions in recent years).

Nevertheless, the risk of disruption was evidently there and one would have hoped proper planning by the various parties would be in place. That said, the airfield ops. teams must have done an excellent job to keep the runway open.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 10:59
  #4416 (permalink)  
 
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From what I saw Swissport had all 3 rigs up and running and delays weren't too bad for them, ~1 hour or so which isn't anything unusual during heavy snowfall (and they even managed to de-ice a few non contracted airlines).

I saw at least 5 rigs going around for Airline Services, could've been more I'm not sure bu considering the amount of contracts they have, it isn't a huge amount. Add in the time taken to refill/reheat the fluid once you've emptied the tanks etc problems soon arise.

Also agree that a remote de-icing area would be best in these type of conditions but I'm not sure how feasible that is at MAN or if it'd work logistically. It'd certainly require some additional training for ground crews etc
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 11:55
  #4417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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https://youtu.be/eV6Zko9tdsI

This video shows de icing at Leipzig, an aerodrome I am very familiar with. It would take two rigs about 5 mins to de ice a 757, and ten to ant ice as well.

Manchester de/anti ice yesterday was in the region of 40 mins with out of date de ice trucks. The poor chap doing the de icing had to manually hold the hose.

I guess you get what you pay for.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 16:17
  #4418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 629
VLM for flybe

Is it only at Manchester airport that vlm will be flying for flybe this summer or will flybe be using them out of other airports.

Flybe has recently partnered with VLM Airlines to offer additional flights from 14th March and 31st August 2016. VLM will be flying for Flybe passengers on the following routes:
•Manchester (MAN) to:

◦Aberdeen (ABZ)
◦Amsterdam (AMS)
◦Belfast City (BHD)
◦Dusseldorf (DUS)
◦Exeter (EXT)
◦Isle of Man (IOM)
◦Jersey (JER)
◦Knock - Ireland West (NOC)
◦Nantes (NTE)
◦Newquay (NQY)
◦Rotterdam (RTM)
◦Southampton (SOU)


Flybe will continue to operate flights on these routes during this period, bolstered by the VLM-operated flights.
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 16:18
  #4419 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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VLM Airlines-Operated Flights (14th March - 31st August 2016)
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Old 5th Mar 2016, 21:10
  #4420 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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From what I saw Swissport had all 3 rigs up and running and delays weren't too bad for them, ~1 hour or so which isn't anything unusual during heavy snowfall (and they even managed to de-ice a few non contracted airlines).
Not true. The QR46 was delayed for nearly 4 hours. Partly due to Swissport de-icing non-contracted airlines first.

Have Menzies not got any de-icing kit?
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