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MANCHESTER 1

Old 3rd Nov 2015, 10:37
  #3421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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what a load of tosh

Ian
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 10:40
  #3422 (permalink)  
 
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Good to see Tobago back on the departure boards!
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 11:51
  #3423 (permalink)  
 
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"what a load of tosh"

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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 12:14
  #3424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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New route MAN-MXP with easyJet 6 x week.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 12:21
  #3425 (permalink)  
 
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If an aircraft was holding because of weather at say Liverpool or Leeds but could not divert to Manchester due the "No Diversion" Notam, that would be thrown out the window by ATC as soon as the aircraft declared a fuel emergency. It would not then fly up to say Edinburgh. It would land at Manchester.
Yes, this is absolutely correct. But if an aircraft has to declare an emergency then a crisis situation has been created and it is incumbent on all parties to strive to avoid that happening. The problem in a mass-diversion scenario is that there isn't just one aircraft in the sky - there can be several holding simultaneously, all affected by the same conditions. If they were forced to hold until they needed to declare an emergency (hypothetically, as both crew and ATC would in reality do their utmost to avoid this) you could find several such emergency calls made in quick succession. They can't all land at once. Somebody gets to be last.

Does MAN (or any other airport) want this kind of publicity for the sake of a few hundred extra pounds in net revenue?
In a mass-diversion scenario safety, not bad PR, must be the only concern. If a mindset which places PR ahead of safety is creeping into the industry, the CAA needs to act. The extra revenue is no doubt welcomed by airports, but it has to be far down the list of considerations in this situation.

If MAN has a 'No Diversions' NOTAM in force then no flight would be filing MAN as an Alternate and hence not holding overhead whilst trying to find another airport willing to take them
This is not actually correct. It is true that MAN would not be filed as the alternate. However, the replacement flight-plan alternate would have been filed possibly several hours earlier. In reality, ATC or company ops would need to establish whether the preferred alternate itself still offers weather conditions which are not 'below limits', and whether, given the mass-diversion scenario, that airport could still physically accept additional diverted flights. The situation is dynamic. Many airports will specify an acceptable number of divs - a quota which can fill remarkably quickly when all the London gateways are out - and then say 'no more'. The policy actually is for the aircraft to continue holding (usually close to original intended destination) until an available alternate is identified, or else the risk would be setting course for an unavailable airport and having to turn back. Of course, what should actually happen is that whilst the aircraft is holding for its original destination, ops on the ground should be making the phonecalls in preparation for the possible diversion to follow.

Note that in the scenario outlined above - that which we encounter when fog blankets a large number of UK airports simultaneously - safety is absolutely paramount. What is actually worse: sitting on a remote stand fretting because a handling agent says they can't service your aircraft for two hours, or airborne holding indefinitely with your fuel reserves diminishing whilst a series of airports advise that they won't accept your flight? And remember the ATC safety angle too: whilst all these aircraft are being refused by airports, more flights are pitching up all the time and joining the hold. These aircraft need to be removed from the system ASAP to avoid the risk of ATC overloads. An ATC sector overload is a far bigger safety issue than a ground-handling delay.

Moving on to new ground, I reviewed MAN's daily movements late last night. Almost the entire FlyBe programme was cancelled, as were many KLM and BA flights plus afew others. Most of these were cancelled hours ahead of time. Which begs the question: what happened to the handling agents rostered to service those particular flights? Were they actually available for reassignment to alternative duties? Such as handling diverted flights?

Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 3rd Nov 2015 at 12:34.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 12:25
  #3426 (permalink)  
 
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As well as Milan, new Easyjet routes to Olbia and Paris CDG.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 12:31
  #3427 (permalink)  
 
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Easyjet,
Excellent news.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 12:32
  #3428 (permalink)  
 
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4 new routes in one day, it's not just BHX on a roll at the moment!
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 12:38
  #3429 (permalink)  
 
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Milan 6 x weekly with non-based a/c and CDG 9 x weekly with a based a/c.
The early departures to Paris on Monday & Friday now make up the 11 based on those days.

Olbia 2 x weekly in the afternoon with a based a/c

With an extra 17 weekly departures, that's about a further 8 or 9% increase on what was already a decent increase due to added frequencies.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 12:47
  #3430 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think these are the last routes we will see Easyjet add for next summer.

Carolyn McCall was directly quoted as saying they would be flying MAN-STR for starters.

While I applaud any new routes, its a shame the choices are already quite competitive.

CDG is already up to 8 daily next summer, the new Easyjet flights make it up to 10 daily. Slight overkill? (Then again, there are 25 daily flights to the BEneLUX area now).

Milan has Flybe and Ryanair at more than daily, and Olbia has Jet2 and a few charter flights.

Still waiting for a brave airline to try Seville, Santiago, Bucharest, Poznan etc.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 13:04
  #3431 (permalink)  
 
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I can see Flybe giving up on MXP to be honest and using the aircraft elsewhwere.

I said earlier there were potentially 11 gaps to fill for EZY. I didn't think they would fill them all though. If they add anymore routes it will have to be non base aircraft or add another based one as there are no more gaps with the 11 based.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 13:37
  #3432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I think there are 2 early morning departure slots to fill on Sundays
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 13:50
  #3433 (permalink)  
 
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I think there are 2 early morning departure slots to fill on Sundays
Your right I forgot about them
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 13:59
  #3434 (permalink)  
 
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I think there are 2 early morning departure slots to fill on Sundays
I think you're right unless any previous timings have changed. Originally, I only had 8 on Sunday's first wave, but Viscount702 said it was 9 and indeed I'd missed the weekly Bastia flight.

Difficult to see how they could fill those 2 Sunday morning slots unless there are still some gaps later on Sunday for a second wave (unless a/c were doing a W pattern), and on other days if frequencies were more than once weekly. (but could be non-based a/c on those other days).
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 14:15
  #3435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Originally Posted by eggc View Post
No disrespect to the places you list LAX, but they are hardly busy and can probably cope with the extra a little easier. Everything about MAN is at stretching point.
Yesterday AA filed DUB as their alternate for LHR, UA filed CDG.

Each aircraft type of course burns fuel at different rates, but an average figure is for every extra tonne carried, 250 kgs will be burned carrying it, so quite expensive for aircraft to carry enough fuel to hold and do multiple approaches into airports in different countries.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 17:11
  #3436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I need to look again at the Easy timetable.

As I said above I thought there were potentially 11 gaps which could be filled with flights but that included the two Sunday morning ones. EZY have added 11 based flights so have found two gaps which I hadn't. More particularly there is a problem with Monday in that insufficient planes have returned from the first wave to do the second and also again the third. It maybe they have retimed flights which I haven't spotted yet.

I know LAX thinks there may be more to come but enough for another (third) based aircraft? I think that might be a little too much.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 17:36
  #3437 (permalink)  
 
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viscount702, do you have a complex spreadsheet to plot all the flights. I only get as far as seeing what's in the first wave of departures - and even then I get it wrong!
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 18:09
  #3438 (permalink)  
 
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CDG, MXP and OLB just bookable form June-September

CDG & MXP should have the potential to be year-round!?
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 18:20
  #3439 (permalink)  
 
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CDG, MXP and OLB just bookable form June-September

CDG & MXP should have the potential to be year-round!?
The flights don't start until June (when a number of other flights begin) and the timetable only goes to the beginning of September at present.
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Old 3rd Nov 2015, 18:23
  #3440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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viscount702, do you have a complex spreadsheet to plot all the flights. I only get as far as seeing what's in the first wave of departures - and even then I get it wrong!

Yes I do but I also get it wrong.

Monday is OK now. I had duplicated a flight.

I haven't finished going through everything yet apart from Sunday where there are two gaps there look to be a few more as well now.
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